Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #66~ the appeal~

[LemonMousse]

The label 'sinister family ' is unfair and unfounded as far as I can see. Painting them as some kind of mafia organisation is perfect for a good story, but doesn't appear to be based on anything substantial.

They didn't ask to be thrust into the media spot light or to have to face public judgement and public comment over every facial reaction in court, or every tweet out of court. They have done what I think most families would do and have stood alongside their brother /nephew/son together, trying to support him through the whole process.
This must have been a horrendous experience for them but it seems that there is often little sympathy for the families of those who commit a crime. Of course the grieving family deserves more sympathy and consideration, but it doesn't have to be an either /or. IMO.

Hmm.

Aunt expresses outrage that Pistorius is put on trial for KILLING someone
Uncle sits smirking throughout the entire proceedings
Brother interferes with evidence by wiping a phone
Sister waltzes off with the handbag of a woman she'd never met

"Sinister" is me being charitable. I find them despicable, quite frankly.

 

[soozieqtips]

If they didn't believe their brother when he told them he had shot Reeva by accident and immediately thought he had murdered her then yes I would say it was sinister.

Not sure I follow your reasoning. Are you saying that if they believed it was an accident, there was nothing wrong with removing and tampering with evidence from a crime scene? Surely if they believed it was an accident, then why remove and tamper with evidence? There is no innocent reason whatsoever to remove things from a crime scene.

 

[LemonMousse]

If they didn't believe their brother when he told them he had shot Reeva by accident and immediately thought he had murdered her then yes I would say it was sinister.

But if they'd actually believed their brother, why were they removing and wiping evidence?

No need to do that for an innocent man.

EDIT: Great minds, Soozie, great minds!

 

[cottonweaver]

Hi all,

Hoping Jitty, (or anyone else who remembers,) is still about to answer the following:

In order for the appeal to be upheld do the State only require,, at minimum, one of their Questions of law upheld?
eg.from their Heads “4.1 Whether the principles of dolus eventualis were correctly applied to the accepted facts and the conduct of the accused, including error in objecto"

As far as I remember, that is the case, but just want to double-check this. ( Starting to not see the wood for the trees here and losing track of the fundamentals!)

 

[cottonweaver]

If they didn't believe their brother when he told them he had shot Reeva by accident and immediately thought he had murdered her then yes I would say it was sinister.

Would you still think that if that realisation came to them later?eg. not immediately but subsequently?

 

[Tortoise]

Hmm.

Aunt expresses outrage that Pistorius is put on trial for KILLING someone
Uncle sits smirking throughout the entire proceedings
Brother interferes with evidence by wiping a phone
Sister waltzes off with the handbag of a woman she'd never met

"Sinister" is me being charitable. I find them despicable, quite frankly.

I'll add to that Aimee playing the part of Reeva in the reconstruction video.

There could be no purpose to it - it was OP's actions leading up to the shooting and during the shooting that was relevant only to a reconstruction, and seeing as OP claimed to not know how Reeva silently and invisibly slipped to the bathroom while his back was turned Aimee could hardly fill in those details either.

What on earth did Aimee think she was doing, laying slumped over a toilet. It is horrible.

 

[cottonweaver]

I doubt the Pistorius family finds any humour in this entire tragedy.

I baulk at this over-use of the word "tragedy" as IMO this was not a fatal mistake, believing as I do, that he knowingly shot a trapped and defenceless RS with 4 BTs.

Nonetheless in a general sense, yes it has been catastrophic for ALL families involved, but cannot exceed the loss of the Steenkamps who are entirely blameless.

What could the Pistorius family have done differently, from that very morning?

Do you think Carl should have taken crime scene evidence and don't you think the family ought to have made him stop or at least confess to what he had removed from the stolen phone?
We have an initial catastrophe, if you like, (but really it's a murderous bad decision by OP) compounded by a series of bad decisions .....with all the family steadfastly united behind him .......this is certainly no laughing matter.

 

[mrjitty]

Hi all,

Hoping Jitty, (or anyone else who remembers,) is still about to answer the following:

In order for the appeal to be upheld do the State only require,, at minimum, one of their Questions of law upheld?
eg.from their Heads “4.1 Whether the principles of dolus eventualis were correctly applied to the accepted facts and the conduct of the accused, including error in objecto"

As far as I remember, that is the case, but just want to double-check this. ( Starting to not see the wood for the trees here and losing track of the fundamentals!)

The general answer (as I don't know the exact situation in RSA)

They will need to find a real risk that Masipa misdirected herself on one or more key points

Then they will need to find that a Court properly directed, might well have reached a different decision

Something like that would be enough to send it back.

Or they could just apply the law correctly and announce the new result.

So for example - if they find Masipa misdirected herself in applying DE, or there was a real risk she did - they can either send it back to the High Cour, or apply the law of DE themselves.

If they believe the error does not change the result, then even if they find errors they won't disturb the verdict.

 

[mrjitty]

Imho the SCA Court Registrar is probably the best "go to" person right now in order to find out when we can expect the Judgment to take place.--------Most likely it's the Registrar who gets notified by the Judges when they're ready to give their Verdict and then it's up to the Registrar to schedule a time/date suitable to five judges, two attorney, Etc.--------If Registrar wasn't already working on scheduling a Court Date when approached by Reporter KN, I don't believe s/he would have said "definitely" before end of year.

Agreed that the Registrar is the person in the know - but I would not worry about slippage

These things often change

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.bobharrodmissing.com/mothers-story.html

June feels the need to expain why 'she couldn't give him any warmth or anything', when Oscar Pistorius' media guru uncle, Arnold, felt the need to repeat the breathtakingly insensitive family mantra of 'We are just trying to save a life here' directly to her, in court. Oscar Pistorius shot her daughter to pieces, she is in court trying to find the truth, Oscar is very much alive and well in the courtroom, and yet June feels the need to apologise for not being warm to the man who tells her of the false aim of 'saving' the life of the man who killed her daughter - which is at no way at risk anyhow?

How to describe these characters ...??

 

[JudgeJudi]

Thank you FG for that very moving review of June’s book. By sheer coincidence I was reading Arnold’s quotes to the media earlier this evening and saw that comment about Arnold wanting to save a life. The insensitivity of it is breathtaking. Shortly afterwards I was reading a few of the many articles I have filed away. One contained the following comment made by Reeva at the conclusion of her participation in Tropika Island of Treasure at the end of November 2013:

“I think the way that you go out, not just your journey in life, but the way that you go out and you make your exit is so important,” the blonde-haired Steenkamp says in the video. “You either made an impact in a positive or a negative way, but just maintain integrity and maintain class and just always be true to yourself. “I’m going to miss you all so much and I love you very, very much.”

It was so prophetic, as was the painting Reeva did showing herself, a man with a gun and a stairway to heaven.

The video clip of her on Tropika is in the following link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ily-reveal-theyre-hooked-reality-TV-show.html

 

[cottonweaver]

The general answer (as I don't know the exact situation in RSA)

They will need to find a real risk that Masipa misdirected herself on one or more key points

Then they will need to find that a Court properly directed, might well have reached a different decision

Something like that would be enough to send it back.

Or they could just apply the law correctly and announce the new result.

So for example - if they find Masipa misdirected herself in applying DE, or there was a real risk she did - they can either send it back to the High Cour, or apply the law of DE themselves.

If they believe the error does not change the result, then even if they find errors they won't disturb the verdict.

Thankyou, as per BIB above, one of the following upheld, but obviously some are interconnected

4.1 Whether the principles of dolus eventualis were correctly applied to the accepted facts and the conduct of the accused, including error in objecto.
4.2 Whether the Court correctly conceived and applied the legal principles pertaining to circumstantial evidence and/or pertaining to multiple defences by an accused.
4.3 Whether the Court was correct in its construction and reliance on an alternative version of the accused and that this alternative version was reasonably possibly true ...”

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Mortimer, according to The Juice, said Pistorius “was going on about how influential his family is and how connected they are".

‘‘He even pulled out his phone to show me pictures of armoured cars. He said: ‘My family owns SANDF. Zuma works for us. I’ll piss on Zuma’,” Mortimer allegedly said.

Mortimer is apparently a close friend of President Jacob Zuma’s son, Duduzane.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/20...lub-fracas-after-insulting-zuma-family-report

SA will become a failed state if Zuma is left alone – Malema

“If a president does not like red berets, a law is passed that all red berets are banned in this country… If the president in South Africa does not like a corruption fighting institution called the Scorpions, they go and close down the scorpion ...
“Because he does not want to go to prison — every institution that wants to take him to prison, he closes down that institution,” he said.

“Anyone fighting corruption in SA is the enemy of the president. And if the president is left alone, South Africa will become one of the failed African states,....

Malema said that in South Africa, corruption had become institutionalised.
“You get a senior position on the basis [of] to what extent you are corrupt. If you are anti-corruption, you will never get a promotion.”

http://www.sabreakingnews.co.za/201...-a-failed-state-if-zuma-is-left-alone-malema/


Without words.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Thank you FG for that very moving review of June’s book. By sheer coincidence I was reading Arnold’s quotes to the media earlier this evening and saw that comment about Arnold wanting to save a life. The insensitivity of it is breathtaking. Shortly afterwards I was reading a few of the many articles I have filed away. One contained the following comment made by Reeva at the conclusion of her participation in Tropika Island of Treasure at the end of November 2013:

“I think the way that you go out, not just your journey in life, but the way that you go out and you make your exit is so important,” the blonde-haired Steenkamp says in the video. “You either made an impact in a positive or a negative way, but just maintain integrity and maintain class and just always be true to yourself. “I’m going to miss you all so much and I love you very, very much.”

It was so prophetic, as was the painting Reeva did showing herself, a man with a gun and a stairway to heaven.

The video clip of her on Tropika is in the following link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ily-reveal-theyre-hooked-reality-TV-show.html

I remember very well: Reeva so pretty and sweet and her prophetic earnest words ... terrible sad.
... and her painting, done aged 15, I think - yes. After this sometime 2 boyfriends, who abused her, and one of the two murdered her as shown on her painting (a weapon, a ladder, her becoming an angel) - mysterious, mystical, eerie.

Reeva did know long before her killing - and JM didn't even like to know after trial.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

By the time I’m 50, I hope to be married with a family, dog and white picket fence around my house. Owning a restaurant is a dream. I love food and working with people.

http://www.playerwives.com/miscella...oscar-pistorius-dating-anastassia-khozissova/

If I may be prophetic once: I think, it is not going to work with OP.
This pressure, no longer to be the Superhero and even rejected as a murderer, liar, coward, cheater, unfaithful lover, he will not be able to withstand in the long run.
He botched his life, in conscious evil recklessness.
What will become of him: a multiple killer, a hermit, a monk, a man with severe depression? :dunno:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

http://www.sabc.co.za/news/a/fef26c804abef8e59486f600f10f4cd2/Krejcirs-properties-auctioned-20151128

Krejcir's properties auctioned

In August, the High Court in Johannesburg found Krejcir guilty of attempted murder, kidnapping and dealing in drugs.
He is yet to be sentenced.

Kejcir was found guilty on Friday in his home country, the Czech Republic, and sentenced to 15 years in prison in absentia for fraud and attempted murder.

The country has been seeking his extradition.


Oh, OP's soccer friend from prison won't longer have a roof above his head.

 

[cottonweaver]

By the time I’m 50, I hope to be married with a family, dog and white picket fence around my house. Owning a restaurant is a dream. I love food and working with people.

http://www.playerwives.com/miscella...oscar-pistorius-dating-anastassia-khozissova/

What will become of him: a multiple killer, a hermit, a monk, a man with severe depression? :dunno:

:silly:

anic:


RSBM

BIB Regardless of the seriousness of the topic, this is very funny especially with your emoji!

 

[mhiforme]

By the time I’m 50, I hope to be married with a family, dog and white picket fence around my house. Owning a restaurant is a dream. I love food and working with people.

http://www.playerwives.com/miscella...oscar-pistorius-dating-anastassia-khozissova/

If I may be prophetic once: I think, it is not going to work with OP.
This pressure, no longer to be the Superhero and even rejected as a murderer, liar, coward, cheater, unfaithful lover, he will not be able to withstand in the long run.
He botched his life, in conscious evil recklessness.
What will become of him: a multiple killer, a hermit, a monk, a man with severe depression? :dunno:

Once this case is closed and behind him, he'll be fine.

I'm sure there will be cynics out there that will never forgive him but they will be marginalized. Most will accept him back into society over time and this is what our entire court process is about, rehabilitation so that you can be introduced back into society, so if people don't accept him back, then it's not OP's fault. It's mob mentality.

 

[mhiforme]

Thank you FG for that very moving review of June’s book. By sheer coincidence I was reading Arnold’s quotes to the media earlier this evening and saw that comment about Arnold wanting to save a life. The insensitivity of it is breathtaking. Shortly afterwards I was reading a few of the many articles I have filed away. One contained the following comment made by Reeva at the conclusion of her participation in Tropika Island of Treasure at the end of November 2013:

“I think the way that you go out, not just your journey in life, but the way that you go out and you make your exit is so important,” the blonde-haired Steenkamp says in the video. “You either made an impact in a positive or a negative way, but just maintain integrity and maintain class and just always be true to yourself. “I’m going to miss you all so much and I love you very, very much.”

It was so prophetic, as was the painting Reeva did showing herself, a man with a gun and a stairway to heaven.

The video clip of her on Tropika is in the following link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ily-reveal-theyre-hooked-reality-TV-show.html

BIB, when it is your own flesh and blood, of course you are trying to save a life, there is nothing insensitive here.

You don't have to die to lose your life. You can also lose your life through lots of other avenues such as drugs and alcohol

 

[mhiforme]

I remember very well: Reeva so pretty and sweet and her prophetic earnest words ... terrible sad.
... and her painting, done aged 15, I think - yes. After this sometime 2 boyfriends, who abused her, and one of the two murdered her as shown on her painting (a weapon, a ladder, her becoming an angel) - mysterious, mystical, eerie.

Reeva did know long before her killing - and JM didn't even like to know after trial.

It's wonderful to paint a fairytale of Reeva as an angel, but I'm sure reality was far different. She was a model in her mid-twenties who couldn't make it in the business and latched on to OP because of his fame, hoping that he could help push her career along.

If OP ever writes a book, I can see some equally sad lines in there as well such as losing his mom at such a young age, being born without legs, sitting in bed with his sister, having her wiggle her toes and asking why he doesn't have any. That's sad

Everyone has stories to share but that doesn't give a true picture of who a person is, it only gives the impression that the author wants to portray.