Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #66~ the appeal~

[mhiforme]

I baulk at this over-use of the word "tragedy" as IMO this was not a fatal mistake, believing as I do, that he knowingly shot a trapped and defenceless RS with 4 BTs.

Nonetheless in a general sense, yes it has been catastrophic for ALL families involved, but cannot exceed the loss of the Steenkamps who are entirely blameless.

What could the Pistorius family have done differently, from that very morning?

Do you think Carl should have taken crime scene evidence and don't you think the family ought to have made him stop or at least confess to what he had removed from the stolen phone?
We have an initial catastrophe, if you like, (but really it's a murderous bad decision by OP) compounded by a series of bad decisions .....with all the family steadfastly united behind him .......this is certainly no laughing matter.

BIB, OP's pain will be equal to the Steenkamps, they'll all have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

The reality though is that with the Steenkamp's age and health, they may not be on earth for much longer but OP will have to endure this for maybe another 50 years or so. That is sad. No one wins.

 

[mhiforme]

I'll add to that Aimee playing the part of Reeva in the reconstruction video.

There could be no purpose to it - it was OP's actions leading up to the shooting and during the shooting that was relevant only to a reconstruction, and seeing as OP claimed to not know how Reeva silently and invisibly slipped to the bathroom while his back was turned Aimee could hardly fill in those details either.

What on earth did Aimee think she was doing, laying slumped over a toilet. It is horrible.

Let's not get over dramatic here, it's not horrible. They are recreating every step of the scene, the time before, the time of and the time after the scene. Every single action taken and decision made needs to be examined so that the full story of night of the accident can be told.

 

[cottonweaver]

Once this case is closed and behind him, he'll be fine.

I'm sure there will be cynics out there that will never forgive him but they will be marginalized. Most will accept him back into society over time and this is what our entire court process is about, rehabilitation so that you can be introduced back into society, so if people don't accept him back, then it's not OP's fault. It's mob mentality.

BIB The purposes of justice you mean?

It's not all about rehab
retribution, deterrence, reformation through atonement, incapacitation/safety of society

PS trying to visualise this "marginalised mob of cynics"......but it's confusing

" so if people don't accept him back".......... it's their personal choice? Although there might be an awful lot of them , in the mainstream if justice still isn't seen to be done.

 

[cottonweaver]

It's wonderful to paint a fairytale of Reeva as an angel, but I'm sure reality was far different. She was a model in her mid-twenties who couldn't make it in the business and latched on to OP because of his fame, hoping that he could help push her career along.

If OP ever writes a book, I can see some equally sad lines in there as well such as losing his mom at such a young age, being born without legs, sitting in bed with his sister, having her wiggle her toes and asking why he doesn't have any. That's sad

Everyone has stories to share but that doesn't give a true picture of who a person is, it only gives the impression that the author wants to portray.

BIB

And this was one of your first posts here mihforme

"In terms of why I joined the forum, yes it is late in the game but I needed some of my own questions about this case answered and having an open dialogue has helped me to understand different views on a given topic."

 

[cottonweaver]

BIB, OP's pain will be equal to the Steenkamps, they'll all have to live with it for the rest of their lives.

The reality though is that with the Steenkamp's age and health, they may not be on earth for much longer but OP will have to endure this for maybe another 50 years or so. That is sad. No one wins.

For once, I am lost for words

 

[foxbluff]

Yes, and 9 more judgments handed down yesterday. It should be next week! I think they can still hand down judgement after term ends.

Ty....I so hope you're right about Judgments being handed down in December.---------The first week of December works for me. lol.......If they postpone Judgment to next term, I'll "pull my hair out by the roots".--------Oh, also, I'm encouraged to see that as many as NINE Judgments can be rendered in one day!

 

[LemonMousse]

It's wonderful to paint a fairytale of Reeva as an angel, but I'm sure reality was far different. She was a model in her mid-twenties who couldn't make it in the business and latched on to OP because of his fame, hoping that he could help push her career along.

If OP ever writes a book, I can see some equally sad lines in there as well such as losing his mom at such a young age, being born without legs, sitting in bed with his sister, having her wiggle her toes and asking why he doesn't have any. That's sad

Everyone has stories to share but that doesn't give a true picture of who a person is, it only gives the impression that the author wants to portray.

Who cares whether Reeva was an angel or not? She could have been a pock marked crack for all I care.

But she was a young woman who died a horrifying, terrifying death at the hands of a man who had no better excuse than that he was scared because of a noise.

He heard a noise and decided it was best dealt with by summary execution. That's if you believe his frankly laughable "explanation" that has insulted the intelligence of just about everybody who's heard it.

I don't care if Pistorius's little life is destroyed. I hope it is. I think that's the very least that should happen to him for leaving a fellow human's brains all over a toilet seat. Because he was a bit scared.

Pistorius, lest we forget, is a victim of NOTHING. He is a perpetrator. A criminal. He did this, all by himself. If his life is ruined it's because he ruined it. He cocked a gun, aimed it, shot four times and destroyed umpteen lives in the process.

And you think he'll be welcomed back into society with open arms? No. He won't. There will be some weird, fame hungry hangers on...little blonde bimbettes with bra sizes bigger than their IQs. But they are welcome to him. Decent people who actually care about others will not want the slightest thing to do with him.

What he did was monstrous. And it defies explanation when I see people trying to pretend he's some kind of victim.

In what universe is a trigger happy, irresponsible, narcissistic, ego maniac as much a victim as the young woman he shot FOUR TIMES because of a noise in the bathroom they shared?

Not my universe. Thankfully.

 

[soozieqtips]

It's wonderful to paint a fairytale of Reeva as an angel, but I'm sure reality was far different. She was a model in her mid-twenties who couldn't make it in the business and latched on to OP because of his fame, hoping that he could help push her career along.

If OP ever writes a book, I can see some equally sad lines in there as well such as losing his mom at such a young age, being born without legs, sitting in bed with his sister, having her wiggle her toes and asking why he doesn't have any. That's sad

Everyone has stories to share but that doesn't give a true picture of who a person is, it only gives the impression that the author wants to portray.

BIB - I think this is the most demeaning description of Reeva I've read on this site.

 

[soozieqtips]

Who cares whether Reeva was an angel or not? She could have been a pock marked crack for all I care.

But she was a young woman who died a horrifying, terrifying death at the hands of a man who had no better excuse than that he was scared because of a noise.

He heard a noise and decided it was best dealt with by summary execution. That's if you believe his frankly laughable "explanation" that has insulted the intelligence of just about everybody who's heard it.

I don't care if Pistorius's little life is destroyed. I hope it is. I think that's the very least that should happen to him for leaving a fellow human's brains all over a toilet seat. Because he was a bit scared.

Pistorius, lest we forget, is a victim of NOTHING. He is a perpetrator. A criminal. He did this, all by himself. If his life is ruined it's because he ruined it. He cocked a gun, aimed it, shot four times and destroyed umpteen lives in the process.

And you think he'll be welcomed back into society with open arms? No. He won't. There will be some weird, fame hungry hangers on...little blonde bimbettes with bra sizes bigger than their IQs. But they are welcome to him. Decent people who actually care about others will not want the slightest thing to do with him.

What he did was monstrous. And it defies explanation when I see people trying to pretend he's some kind of victim.

In what universe is a trigger happy, irresponsible, narcissistic, ego maniac as much a victim as the young woman he shot FOUR TIMES because of a noise in the bathroom they shared?

Not my universe. Thankfully.

Great post. Wish I could thank it a thousand times. OP hasn't lost his life. He's lost a little freedom. Big whoop. At least his family get to see him, hug him, talk to him. What do Reeva's family get? Images of her last moments in a small toilet being terrorised and gunned down by that lunatic. I know who the victim isn't.

 

[cottonweaver]

BIB - I think this is the most demeaning description of Reeva I've read on this site.

Very very similar to the Support 4 Ozzie website followers comments though isn't it!
As I said previously on the thread, it's to be expected.

 

[Trotterly]

Who cares whether Reeva was an angel or not? She could have been a pock marked crack for all I care.

But she was a young woman who died a horrifying, terrifying death at the hands of a man who had no better excuse than that he was scared because of a noise.

He heard a noise and decided it was best dealt with by summary execution. That's if you believe his frankly laughable "explanation" that has insulted the intelligence of just about everybody who's heard it.

I don't care if Pistorius's little life is destroyed. I hope it is. I think that's the very least that should happen to him for leaving a fellow human's brains all over a toilet seat. Because he was a bit scared.

Pistorius, lest we forget, is a victim of NOTHING. He is a perpetrator. A criminal. He did this, all by himself. If his life is ruined it's because he ruined it. He cocked a gun, aimed it, shot four times and destroyed umpteen lives in the process.

And you think he'll be welcomed back into society with open arms? No. He won't. There will be some weird, fame hungry hangers on...little blonde bimbettes with bra sizes bigger than their IQs. But they are welcome to him. Decent people who actually care about others will not want the slightest thing to do with him.

What he did was monstrous. And it defies explanation when I see people trying to pretend he's some kind of victim.

In what universe is a trigger happy, irresponsible, narcissistic, ego maniac as much a victim as the young woman he shot FOUR TIMES because of a noise in the bathroom they shared?

Not my universe. Thankfully.

You should try not so sit on the fence so much.

By the way it's pockmarked crack

 

[LemonMousse]

You should try not so sit on the fence so much.

By the way it's pockmarked crack

It's also egomaniac.

I don't spend too much time editing my own posts......or commenting on the inadequacies of others. I think content matters far more than petty irrelevancies like that. But you be my guest, by all means. Certainly beats providing links and evidence for your claims, eh? Ahem.....Annexure A.....ahem.

*I shall, as ever, politely decline to mention the two glaring mistakes in your two lines. I'm nice like that.

 

[Jake18]

Very very similar to the Support 4 Ozzie website followers comments though isn't it!
As I said previously on the thread, it's to be expected.

I haven't been on much although I'll set aside the night for the verdict but I agree that this is appalling.

This type of victim blaming attitude typically comes from the same type of OP supporter who always has an "open" or "enquiring" mind. In the height of the trial when I wasted far too much time on it (!) there was that twitter account from EmRm who claimed that Reeva was awful and she knew this because she was a lifelong friend of OP and a fellow South African. She was subsequently outed as a single, sad woman living in a bedsit in the UK.

 

[Trotterly]

It's also egomaniac.

I don't spend too much time editing my own posts......or commenting on the inadequacies of others. I think content matters far more than petty irrelevancies like that. But you be my guest, by all means. Certainly beats providing links and evidence for your claims, eh? Ahem.....Annexure A.....ahem.

*I shall, as ever, politely decline to mention the two glaring mistakes in your two lines. I'm nice like that.

Oh yes, the 3:17 thing.

From the judgement page 3299 line 24...

10. 03:17 Dr Stipp attempted to make a call to 10111.

11. 03:17 second sounds were heard. These were cricket bat striking against the door.

From the defence HOA page 95...

Annexure A : “Dr Stipp and the Chronology of Events”

 

[foxbluff]

It seems to me that most here currently hold the Appeal Court Judges in high regard.-----If, against your wishes, they uphold Judge Masipa's CH Verdict (which imho they will), do you believe you'll continue to hold them in high regard?

 

[LemonMousse]

Oh yes, the 3:17 thing.

From the judgement page 3299 line 24...

10. 03:17 Dr Stipp attempted to make a call to 10111.

11. 03:17 second sounds were heard. These were cricket bat striking against the door.

From the defence HOA page 95...

Annexure A : “Dr Stipp and the Chronology of Events”

Sorry. Is that it?

I hate to state the obvious, but there's no explicit or even implicit link between the sentence at 10 and the mention of Annexure A on page 95.

And if you read the summary given for what Annexure A includes.....there's not the faintest whiff of anything to do with 10111.

You don't seriously believe, do you, in secret evidence that couldn't be made public? That Roux was allowed to question Dr Stipp about a call without giving him the opportunity to address conflicting evidence?

That is really, really silly.

There was no evidence of the time of the 10111 call. If there was, it would be have been shown in open court. Of course it would. Come on.

Unless, I dunno, was 10111 a sex line or something? Was Dr Stipp trying to buy some of the ground up pig testicles that Pistorius was mixing into his Horlicks for, er, energy?

Sometimes, I swear, these threads are like stepping through the looking glass.

 

[LemonMousse]

It seems to me that most here currently hold the Appeal Court Judges in high regard.-----If, against your wishes, they uphold Judge Masipa's CH Verdict (which imho they will), do you believe you'll continue to hold them in high regard?

For me...yes, probably. Lex (in the middle) is the president of the SCA and a university chancellor. The others are all exceptionally emminent lawyers. On matters of the law, they will probably be right. We might not like it, but we don't have to.

For what it's worth (and this pains me) I think they will ultimately uphold CH. But I also think their judgement will be quite scathing of Masipa and the way that she mishamdled the evidence...even with regard to her DD judgement.

I homestly think Pistorius will come out of this looking even more like he got away with murder than he already does. Which is something. The court of public opinion is pretty scary.

PS: I'm calling him Lex because it's easier to spell than his surname. And he does look like a Lex.

 

[Tortoise]

It seems to me that most here currently hold the Appeal Court Judges in high regard.-----If, against your wishes, they uphold Judge Masipa's CH Verdict (which imho they will), do you believe you'll continue to hold them in high regard?

Nope, I won't. I have to be honest.

 

[Jake18]

It seems to me that most here currently hold the Appeal Court Judges in high regard.-----If, against your wishes, they uphold Judge Masipa's CH Verdict (which imho they will), do you believe you'll continue to hold them in high regard?

If they uphold the original verdict but do so in a way that is transparent and thorough, then yes.

I disappointed with Masipa's verdict but was most disappointed by the process. Without knowing anything about the legal system in SA I had anticipated that the Judge would carefully weigh up ALL the evidence and give concise reasons for this, not just ignore whole sections (chaotic scene in the room, the blood on the duvet, the position of the fans, all of Mangena's evidence) and focus on the stuff that she liked. I was genuinely expecting proper discussion with regard to all the major evidence, not just saying that it "paled in comparison" to that which favoured OP. Basing innocence on subsequent "remorse" was simply naive and even I could see that there was something odd about her actual legal reasoning around DE, with the way she tried to amend it later.

I don't personally think she wrote it, she didn't read it as though she was familiar with it and it wasn't logical.

 

[Tortoise]

The way I look at it is what are they there for if they can't do anything about the bad and legally incorrect decisions of the lower courts.