Oscar Pistorius - Discussion Thread #67 *Appeal Verdict*

[Estelle]

It was not you Marfa Lights and I don't really want to post a name. I got involved in the discussion too, as did quite a few posters. It is just safer not to post about it as the last thing I would want to do would be start a discussion that cannot be confirmed. I thought it had but my memory must be playing tricks. I haven't seen the comment on Lisa's blog but maybe I shall go and have a look.

It was I, who as soon as the MSM released the Assessors' names, did research on both of them. The male had only recently done training as an Assessor and had been unemployed since. I also found connections between Natalie du Toit and Pistorius which led to my research on Assessor du Toit. But it was deleted early in the piece. I still believe that there is a connection and I remember JudgeJudi saying that she thought that the way the verdict was written sounded as if du Toit had written it as Masipa often stumbled when reading it as if it was not her own writing. This is all circumstantial I realise but there were too many coincidences not to be at least suspicious. But it appeared to me that all three including Masipa had been hand-picked or they were the only three who applied!

 

[Estelle]

This English Barrister guesses the sentence for OP will be about 12 years.

http://barristerblogger.com/2015/12...een-convicted-of-murder-in-england/#more-1615

 

[jilly]

Yet another instance of enabling OP. The family did it, his friends did it, Roux did it, the court did it, Masipa did it and now it seems the NPA are doing it. I agree with another poster that there seems to be a conscious or subconscious effort by almost everyone in authority involved now to allow OP time to flee (or actually commit suicide) thus enabling him yet again. He has never been held accountable for any wrongs in his life except now by the five SCA Judges. OP simply does not understand punishment as he has never had to take full responsibility for his actions before at the age of 29yo. He is accustomed to everyone lying on his behalf. That is why he felt betrayed by Kevin Larena whom he expected to either lie for him in court or refuse to give evidence. Now he is trying to make Larena feel guilty about it so OP tasked Larena to speak to the media to tell the world that OP is depressed and suicidal, life in jail was hell for him, he has lost interest in women and is still in love with Reeva to get sympathy.

SRFS.......If only the SCA could have delivered an appropriate sentence at the same time as the verdict! OP would be back in jail right now with no chance of being enabled by anyone any more......

Thank you for your astute post which I totally concur with. Yes, it is too bad the SCA couldn't have sentenced right there and then because right now, we have to wait until the Spring??? Seriously? Unbelievable. I guess this applies to the term of "grinding wheels of justice".

Whatever Oscar gets, at least there's this:

.....So is this the end of Pistorius' professional athletics career?
Almost certainly. He's 29, and will be past his prime by the time he is freed. It is also unlikely that advertisers would want to sponsor him, as the Pistorius brand is now tainted......
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34993002

 

[soozieqtips]

Thank you for your astute post which I totally concur with. Yes, it is too bad the SCA couldn't have sentenced right there and then because right now, we have to wait until the Spring??? Seriously? Unbelievable. I guess this applies to the term of "grinding wheels of justice".

Whatever Oscar gets, at least there's this:

.....So is this the end of Pistorius' professional athletics career?
Almost certainly. He's 29, and will be past his prime by the time he is freed. It is also unlikely that advertisers would want to sponsor him, as the Pistorius brand is now tainted......
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-34993002

BIB - surely he can't be allowed to stay out of jail for months while awaiting sentencing for murder??

 

[Lyra500]

This Pistorius must be getting very tired of having to be on the defensive and offensive.

Nobody can tell me that they don't know that Oscar's 'done it again' only this time, a heck of a lot worse. Why didn't any of them intervene over the yrs and read Oscar the riot act. Imo, they're partly responsible for it to come down to this.

Can't tell me that Uncle Arnold didn't at least address past troubling incidents with Oscar but knowing Oscar, he probably cried and vomitted his way out of it. It's apparent that Oscar had no discipline which may have been because of his disability.

Right now, it appears they're more interested in saving their name and prestige. They should have dealt with Oscar's temper and recklessness yrs ago. As a result, you reap what you sow.

Thank goodness for the unanimous Supreme Crt because now they have been told that they're not above the law.

jmo

The sad thing is that the person who ended up reaping what OP's family and other enablers had sown in the worst possible way was Reeva.

Yes OP may well end up serving 15 years (I'll only believe he is going back to prison for a prolonged period when it actually happens) but he still has his life and doting family and Uncle A's mansion to go to when he gets out.

 

[Estelle]

BIB - surely he can't be allowed to stay out of jail for months while awaiting sentencing for murder??

That is what I am concerned about! I think May was mentioned as one of the possible dates. So six months as a free convicted murderer not even under house arrest??? Then he could appeal to the CC and be left for another six months or more as a free convicted murderer. Let's hope the Magistrate denies bail on Tuesday.

 

[Cherwell]

Why won't somebody explain to us all why Pistorius was not sent straight back to prison?
There can be no question of anything but a custodial sentence, so it defies all logic.

 

[soozieqtips]

That is what I am concerned about! I think May was mentioned as one of the possible dates. So six months as a free convicted murderer not even under house arrest??? Then he could appeal to the CC and be left for another six months or more as a free convicted murderer. Let's hope the Magistrate denies bail on Tuesday.

It's just insane if a murderer gets to stay free for months. Let me tell you, I would be very unhappy if a convicted murderer lived close by who wasn't being monitored and was able to roam among the public. If he's technically not under house arrest anymore, he has no incentive to behave as he knows he's going back to prison anyway. The last thing anyone needs is an angry and hard-done-by OP on the loose near alcohol, women, cars or guns. The whole thing is unreal.

 

[Estelle]

Why won't somebody explain to us all why Pistorius was not sent straight back to prison?
There can be no question of anything but a custodial sentence, so it defies all logic.

There is almost outrage on here about it so I wonder how South Africans feel about it! I was there in October 2015 for a month and everyone i spoke to thought he was guilty of murder. If they set the precedent now, he could be free for a long time while all the appeals go on.

 

[Madeleine74]

Is it true he's not under house arrest and is free to come and go as he pleases, or is this just a fear being expressed here on WS?

 

[soozieqtips]

There is almost outrage on here about it so I wonder how South Africans feel about it! I was there in October 2015 for a month and everyone i spoke to thought he was guilty of murder. If they set the precedent now, he could be free for a long time while all the appeals go on.

The longer he's out the longer it will take him to adapt when he goes back in. I guess they have to allow enough time to get all the sob stories out so everyone feels sorry for him, but even that doesn't take months. We've already had the tour of his cell and Lerena acting as OP's mouthpiece for all his whining. We get it. His cell's small and he doesn't like prison. That's where he belongs, not in a fancy mansion.

 

[L2L]

Why won't somebody explain to us all why Pistorius was not sent straight back to prison?
There can be no question of anything but a custodial sentence, so it defies all logic.

Yes! Please, someone explain!

 

[Estelle]

There is almost outrage on here about it so I wonder how South Africans feel about it! I was there in October 2015 for a month and everyone i spoke to thought he was guilty of murder. If they set the precedent now, he could be free for a long time while all the appeals go on.

BAIL

Public order

In considering the likelihood that release will disturb the public order or undermine public peace or security,[85] the court takes into account the following:

whether the nature or circumstances of the offence are likely to induce a sense of shock or outrage in the community in which it was committed;
whether such shock or outrage might lead to public disorder if the accused were to be released;
whether the safety of the accused might be jeopardised by his release;
whether the sense of peace or security of the public would be undermined or jeopardised by his release;
whether his release would undermine or jeopardise public confidence in the criminal justice system; and
any other factor.[86]

On the issue of possible disturbance of public order, the cases of S v Mohammed[87] and S v Bennett[88] are relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_procedure_in_South_Africa#Arrest

 

[Estelle]

ARREST

With Warrant

A magistrate or justice of peace may issue a warrant of arrest on written application of the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP), a public prosecutor or a commissioned police officer (from the rank of captain upwards).[32] The application must

set out the alleged offence;[33]
allege either that the offence was committed within the area of jurisdiction of the magistrate or justice of the peace, or that the person to be arrested is known or reasonably believed to be within that area of jurisdiction;[34] and
state that, from information on oath, there is a reasonable suspicion that the person sought has committed the alleged offence.[35]
Warrants are executed by peace officers.[36] Telegraphic or similar written or printed communication from the magistrate or justice of peace, stating that the warrant has been issued, is sufficient to authorise the peace officer to effect the arrest.[37]

If officials detain a person without lawful authority, the detainee, or someone on his behalf, may bring an interdictum de homine libero exhibendo application, which is a special type of mandamus, to compel his release. In England, this is referred to as a habeas corpus application; that term, indeed, is sometimes used in South African law.[43

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_procedure_in_South_Africa#Arrest

BAIL

The purpose of bail is to minimise the impact on an accused's freedom at a stage when he has NOT yet been convicted

So as OP has been convicted, he should not be entitled to bail according to this.

 

[Cherwell]

BAIL

Public order

In considering the likelihood that release will disturb the public order or undermine public peace or security,[85] the court takes into account the following:

whether the nature or circumstances of the offence are likely to induce a sense of shock or outrage in the community in which it was committed;
whether such shock or outrage might lead to public disorder if the accused were to be released;
whether the safety of the accused might be jeopardised by his release;
whether the sense of peace or security of the public would be undermined or jeopardised by his release;
whether his release would undermine or jeopardise public confidence in the criminal justice system; and
any other factor.[86]

On the issue of possible disturbance of public order, the cases of S v Mohammed[87] and S v Bennett[88] are relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_procedure_in_South_Africa#Arrest

He's no longer "the accused" though, he's been convicted! Bail shouldn't enter into it.

 

[Val1]

I should not have said I know the lady in question is involved with disabled sports (now not sure it was paralympics) I thought I read that her sister in law may be a well known disabled athlete but it could all be the wrong person. I will try to find out more. I certainly would not like to name her incorrectly. Maybe I should remove the post until I have done a little more research.

When I questioned her participation shortly after the trial began, I was dissuaded from looking into it any further too... I don't recall by whom(I'll see if I can find the post).

 

[jilly]

BIB - surely he can't be allowed to stay out of jail for months while awaiting sentencing for murder??

Yup. That's what they're saying. I'll try and find a link.

In the meantime, they've issued an Arrest Warrant for the bail hearing on Tues but won't enforce it until that day.

This is really frustrating. He's now been convicted of murder. Who else would be treated in this manner?

From the article below, I guess it's because he's still under house arrest. I wonder if there's at least a cop car outside the mansion. The defense has made the application for bail scheduled for next Tuesday.

Also in the article: "....The shamed sprinter was not at the Supreme Court of Appeal to hear the decision but is said to be 'devastated' at the verdict....."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ant-issued-Oscar-Pistorius.html#ixzz3tVLOsHLO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Also, this article refers to Oscar maybe only getting 3 yrs for this murder.:gaah:

 

[JudgeJudi]

I don't understand this video. What does the scene filmed correspond to? Has OP been arrested or are this old pictures?

This was filmed on 21 October 2014 following OP's sentence for CH.

 

[jilly]

Is it true he's not under house arrest and is free to come and go as he pleases, or is this just a fear being expressed here on WS?

Hi Madeleine!

We've heard conflicting statements. It appears from the link I posted above that he is under house arrest.

Otoh, it's been previously posted here with a link (I believe) that the House Arrest was now in limbo. Maybe that was someone's interpretation tho.

It doesn't make sense that it would be in limbo, to me, tho. I think Nel would have enforced the Warrant for Arrest immediately.

 

[Estelle]

In the meantime before any of our legally qualified members comment, I have been looking for some sort of understanding of the warrant and bail laws.

BAIL PENDING APPEAL(BY PISTORIUS TO THE CC IF SAME CONDITIONS AS BELOW ARE RELEVANT).
(I read once that OP could be free for a very long time if he lodges an appeal to the CC on sentence and verdict.)

When an appeal against a conviction or sentence or order of a lower court is noted, this does not automatically suspend the operation of the sentence unless the court releases the convicted person on bail.[120] If the convicted person was out on bail for trial, the court granting bail pending appeal (or review) may extend bail, in the same amount or in any other amount.[121]

If the convicted person was not previously on bail for the trial, the court may release him on bail on condition that he deposits the stated amount.[122] The court may permit the convicted person to furnish a guarantee instead of cash.[123] It shall be a condition of release that the convicted person shall surrender himself at the time and place specified by court, and upon service of notice in the prescribed manner, to commence the sentence, in the event that the convicted person still has to undergo imprisonment after the disposal of the appeal.[124]

The court may add conditions deemed necessary or advisable in interests of justice, as to, for example,

reporting;
places where the convicted person may not go (for example, to any airport); and
other matters relating to the conduct of the convicted person.[125]
Sections 63, 64, 65, 66 and 68 of the CPA apply with the necessary changes.[126] This means that

the court may amend bail conditions subsequently;[127]
proceedings are to be recorded in full;[128]
the appeal lies to the High Court against a refusal of bail, or against the amount or conditions of bail;[129]
the steps to be taken in the event of failure to comply with bail conditions are the same as for the pre-trial accused;[130]
the bail cancellation provisions are the same as for the pre-trial accused.[131]

The provisions of section 60 do not apply to bail pending appeal, although they may still be relevant to the extent that they embody common-law concepts. The fact that the person is now convicted and sentenced to imprisonment changes the position practically: There is no longer a presumption of innocence, on the one hand; on the other hand, the incentive to evade justice is greater.

In principle, bail may be granted even if the case is serious and the convicted person is facing a long period of imprisonment. The key factor is whether or not the convicted person will report for sentence.[132] It is improper to fix an unaffordable amount of bail if there are good prospects of success on appeal.[133]

Even if there is no indication that the convicted person will try to evade justice, bail may be refused on the ground that the prospects of success on appeal are small.[134][135] Some cases, however, have found that bail should not lightly be refused on this ground alone, especially by the lower courts, which do not have experience in assessing the prospects of a successful appeal.[136][137]

Logically, a court may refuse bail pending appeal if it is an appeal against the sentence only. At best for the convicted person, whichever way the appeal goes, he will still end up serving a lengthy period of imprisonment. If a convicted person loses his appeal to the High Court, he may still be released on bail pending an application for leave to appeal or petition to the SCA.[138] Some cases have held that the onuses imposed under section 60(11) of the CPA also apply to bail pending appeal.[139] The correctness of these cases is doubtful.[140]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_procedure_in_South_Africa#Bail_pending_appeal

This is all I can find on this matter, so I need help understanding this and applying it to OP.