Our university teaches that Patsy did it

[Linda7NJ]

I can believe social workers see it all the time. If the families weren't at risk for one reason or another the social worker wouldn't be involved. In what ways does Patsy fit the profile of a physically abusive parent?

IMO she does't.

 

[Sabrina]

Kaly,
One professor at our university uses tapes of the Ramseys during his lectures on "interrogation techniques" and has the same conclusion.

I would edit out the name of the university, however. You do not want them to file lawsuits against the institutions or the professors, would you?

 

[why_nutt]

In what ways does Patsy fit the profile of a physically abusive parent?

Well, in one sense, Patsy fits the profile, inasmuch as she always seems to have treated JonBenet as an object she owned rather than as an independent person with feelings separate from Patsy's own. Think about it. Patsy always describes JonBenet in terms of how JonBenet looked. She had blonde hair, she could sing. But Patsy never, ever, describes JonBenet in terms of how JonBenet felt about things. Patsy never says anything to the effect of, "I hate her killer because that person made my daughter feel horribly frightened and in pain beyond anything I ever felt during my cancer." To Patsy, JonBenet's death involved no emotions on JonBenet's part at all, and is that not a very suspicious position to take for a mother who is supposed to value her daughter's feelings above all others, even her own? An abusive mother is capable of being abusive precisely because she has no empathy for her child's emotions, and Patsy has demonstrated a lack of empathy for JonBenet in spades.

 

[tipper]

How do you know she's never said that?

 

[Brefie]

Why nutt - you make a good point. I don't believe I have ever heard Patsy say such a thing about the fear her daughter had - and it's not like she hasn't had (as John puts it) a platform.

Also, I agree with other posters about a mother's breaking point. I don't even have children, but consider myself pretty level-headed and the stories about otherwise great mothers snapping and doing something bad to their child does scare me. I am not crazy enough to think I will always be calm with my future children and never lose my rag, I can only pray that I will be given the strength not to REALLY snap. I have no doubt that if I reach the end of my rope, I probably will lose my temper and yell and probably say something that a child shouldn't hear.

 

[why_nutt]

How do you know she's never said that?

Can you produce evidence that she has? I have read every single transcribed word Patsy has spoken, I have listened to every word broadcast from her lips, I have read every word spoken in her favor by her friends and family, and in all of it, Patsy makes clear, personally and via the proxy of those who know her, that as far as Patsy is concerned, JonBenet's experience of her own death is the most irrelevant thing on earth to her, and that every single iota of pain and fear which ever was or is present in the case belongs only to Patsy and John. The worst pain and fear in all of the Ramsey case was felt by JonBenet, and whatever Patsy and John feel is but a whispy shadow of that pain. It takes a very hard-hearted person indeed to be able to ignore the thought of how awful it was, from the child's perspective, to be assaulted to death. But somehow Patsy finds it very easy to never mention her empathy for her daughter's pain, and she finds it very easy to always mention her own pain at being accused.

 

[Mama-cita]

I can believe social workers see it all the time. If the families weren't at risk for one reason or another the social worker wouldn't be involved.

Well if they could "predict" all these *at risk* families beforehand, so many children wouldn't DIE each year from child abuse. There is no TYPE for child abusers, they come from all walks of life. They don't LOOK a certain way. They may go to church. They may be active in the PTA. They may be drug addicts. You can not point out which families are at risk. Those families aren't usually id'd until a child is hurt badly, or worse, dies.

 

[tipper]

Well if they could "predict" all these *at risk* families beforehand, so many children wouldn't DIE each year from child abuse. There is no TYPE for child abusers, they come from all walks of life. They don't LOOK a certain way. They may go to church. They may be active in the PTA. They may be drug addicts. You can not point out which families are at risk. Those families aren't usually id'd until a child is hurt badly, or worse, dies.

But afterwards information comes out. Drinking, mental health issues, drug problems are usually found. Even with the tabs hot on their trail - those kinds of problems weren't found in the Ramsey history.

 

[Mama-cita]

But afterwards information comes out. Drinking, mental health issues, drug problems are usually found.

This is not always true. I keep trying to say, there are no "absolutes" in cases like this.

 

[tipper]

Can you produce evidence that she has? I have read every single transcribed word Patsy has spoken, I have listened to every word broadcast from her lips, I have read every word spoken in her favor by her friends and family, and in all of it, Patsy makes clear, personally and via the proxy of those who know her, that as far as Patsy is concerned, JonBenet's experience of her own death is the most irrelevant thing on earth to her, and that every single iota of pain and fear which ever was or is present in the case belongs only to Patsy and John. The worst pain and fear in all of the Ramsey case was felt by JonBenet, and whatever Patsy and John feel is but a whispy shadow of that pain. It takes a very hard-hearted person indeed to be able to ignore the thought of how awful it was, from the child's perspective, to be assaulted to death. But somehow Patsy finds it very easy to never mention her empathy for her daughter's pain, and she finds it very easy to always mention her own pain at being accused.

Although I'm sure they exist, I can't think, other than in Victim Impact Statements, of any parent or family member who dwelt publically on what their loved one went through. I think its too painful and when it can be faced is done so in small doses and in private.

 

[Mama-cita]

Although I'm sure they exist, I can't think, other than in Victim Impact Statements, of any parent or family member who dwelt publically on what their loved one went through. I think its too painful and when it can be faced is done so in small doses and in private.

Sharon Rocha, Beth Holloway Twitty, Mark Klaasand many others; there are plenty that were outspoken and vocal. Sharon's words BEFORE SCOTT WAS ARRESTED were something like: "I can only imagine the fear Laci experienced as she pled for her life and Conner's life!"
Sharon was very emotional. She behaved in a way that the majority of people can relate to. If something like that happened to one of my children, I would cooperate completely with LE. Look at Mark Klaas. He volunteered to take a lie detector test immediately. Innocent parents cooperate. People with something to hide are belligerent. JMHO.

 

[Brefie]

Although I'm sure they exist, I can't think, other than in Victim Impact Statements, of any parent or family member who dwelt publically on what their loved one went through. I think its too painful and when it can be faced is done so in small doses and in private.

I don't believe their priority was to grieve in private. Their priority was to keep the PR machine running so that they would not look bad in their little world.

"My life has been hell from that day"

How about the hell JB went through? IMO at the hands of those who were supposed to protect her?

 

[why_nutt]

Although I'm sure they exist, I can't think, other than in Victim Impact Statements, of any parent or family member who dwelt publically on what their loved one went through. I think its too painful and when it can be faced is done so in small doses and in private.

DOI was nothing if not a giant Victim Impact Statement, and look at how John and Patsy positively relish describing their own pain at (shudder) being photographed by the tabloids, or (gasp) being asked to sit in chairs for hours at a time, or (the horror, the horror) having their every single need for food, clothing, and shelter met for them by friends and family for page after page. We, the readers, were supposed to actually feel sorry for the Ramseys because they had to sell their boats and their planes, things most of the American public will never have the opportunity to own in their lives in the first place. But JonBenet's pain? Too painful to describe, to even think about? Cheap and pretty words, but the evidence suggests that when John and Patsy, especially Patsy, want to talk about pain, they are more than happy to do so when it is their own and they can get sympathy. Sympathy for JonBenet does not benefit them, so it is useless to them. Which brings me back to my main point: JonBenet's best purpose in the life of John and Patsy Ramsey was to be a tool to make them look good, not to be an independent person with her own agenda, needs, and feelings. And when a parent sees a child as an accessory like a purse or a trendy little dog, you are looking at a parent who is capable of throwing "that child" away as easily as it was to throw away an innocent dog who had done nothing other than need vet treatments.

 

[Brefie]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

DOI was nothing if not a giant Victim Impact Statement, and look at how John and Patsy positively relish describing their own pain at (shudder) being photographed by the tabloids, or (gasp) being asked to sit in chairs for hours at a time, or (the horror, the horror) having their every single need for food, clothing, and shelter met for them by friends and family for page after page. We, the readers, were supposed to actually feel sorry for the Ramseys because they had to sell their boats and their planes, things most of the American public will never have the opportunity to own in their lives in the first place. But JonBenet's pain? Too painful to describe, to even think about? Cheap and pretty words, but the evidence suggests that when John and Patsy, especially Patsy, want to talk about pain, they are more than happy to do so when it is their own and they can get sympathy. Sympathy for JonBenet does not benefit them, so it is useless to them. Which brings me back to my main point: JonBenet's best purpose in the life of John and Patsy Ramsey was to be a tool to make them look good, not to be an independent person with her own agenda, needs, and feelings. And when a parent sees a child as an accessory like a purse or a trendy little dog, you are looking at a parent who is capable of throwing "that child" away as easily as it was to throw away an innocent dog who had done nothing other than need vet treatments.

In my post I tried to reference DOI, but I had soo much to say I couldn't form a logical sentence.
What a pile of self serving tripe. Basically the whole book could have consisted of this: "We are the best family to ever walk the earth. We are the most wronged parents in the world."

They put themselves on the COVER?? WTF?

They truly are vile people. IMO

 

[nanandjim]

...The professor and students believe that Patsy took Jon Benet into the bathroom to clean her up after a bed-wetting, and she hit her, and Jon Benet hit her head on the bathtub...

This makes no sense to me. If it happened like this, wouldn't you call 911 for help???

 

[why_nutt]

This makes no sense to me. If it happened like this, wouldn't you call 911 for help???

And what would the first reaction be on the part of medical personnel to this child who was brought into their emergency room? The first reaction is supposed to be "This may be an act of child abuse." In the fall of 1996, Patsy dared to tell a defense attorney (in a case for which she was a juror) how to do his job in defending his client from charges of assault. She demonstrates in that incident that she is canny enough to recognize how a prosecution will attack, and how a potential defendant needs to prepare for that attack. And, as makes common sense, the best way to be a defendant is to set things up so that you do not become a defendant, ideally by making it appear that someone else should be.

 

[Brefie]

This makes no sense to me. If it happened like this, wouldn't you call 911 for help???

Panic? It wouldn't look good for them if Jonbenet was scarred at the hands of her doting mother?

OR

Perhaps she was knocked out and Patsy thought she was dead? It's a very common theory.

 

[nanandjim]

Panic? It wouldn't look good for them if Jonbenet was scarred at the hands of her doting mother?

OR

Perhaps she was knocked out and Patsy thought she was dead? It's a very common theory.

It is also a common theory that if you injure a child by accident, you call for help; that is, if you have nothing to hide.

 

[nanandjim]

And what would the first reaction be on the part of medical personnel to this child who was brought into their emergency room? The first reaction is supposed to be "This may be an act of child abuse." ...

Oh, and that is much worse than being suspected of murder?? Evidence would show that it happened by an accident, if it truly did. There was no history of child abuse in that family. Plus, they have money. The worse case scenario is they'd have to hire lawyers (which I highly doubt it would go that far).

I for one do not believe that a normal person's initial reaction to accidentally hurting a child is to finish off that child and stage a murder...with rambling ransom note and all...

 

[Linda7NJ]

Oh, and that is much worse than being suspected of murder?? Evidence would show that it happened by an accident, if it truly did. There was no history of child abuse in that family. Plus, they have money. The worse case scenario is they'd have to hire lawyers (which I highly doubt it would go that far).

I for one do not believe that a normal person's initial reaction to accidentally hurting a child is to finish off that child and stage a murder...with rambling ransom note and all...

I agree. That's why I feel so strongly that Burke was involved.