Our university teaches that Patsy did it

[Linda7NJ]

Although I'm sure they exist, I can't think, other than in Victim Impact Statements, of any parent or family member who dwelt publically on what their loved one went through. I think its too painful and when it can be faced is done so in small doses and in private.

Bingo!:clap:

It's the kind of thing that consumes & gnaws at you. I also recall reading where Patsy imagines hearing Jon Benet screaming out .......that leads me to believe it also consumed her thoughts.

 

[concernedperson]

I still believe Patsy had something to do with this and I always will. Sorry but I can't get pass Jonbenet and how she didn't deserve what happened to her. If Burke was involved it is still Patsy who was responsible to make this right. She didn't and Jonbenet is still buried without a right. So wrong, so wrong.

 

[narlacat]

Can you produce evidence that she has? I have read every single transcribed word Patsy has spoken, I have listened to every word broadcast from her lips, I have read every word spoken in her favor by her friends and family, and in all of it, Patsy makes clear, personally and via the proxy of those who know her, that as far as Patsy is concerned, JonBenet's experience of her own death is the most irrelevant thing on earth to her, and that every single iota of pain and fear which ever was or is present in the case belongs only to Patsy and John. The worst pain and fear in all of the Ramsey case was felt by JonBenet, and whatever Patsy and John feel is but a whispy shadow of that pain. It takes a very hard-hearted person indeed to be able to ignore the thought of how awful it was, from the child's perspective, to be assaulted to death. But somehow Patsy finds it very easy to never mention her empathy for her daughter's pain, and she finds it very easy to always mention her own pain at being accused.

Well, there you go. Do you know until reading what you just said Why Nutt, I didn't really think about the fact that I have NEVER once read anything from Patsy concerning the pain and suffering that JonBenet inevitably went through the night she died. It's true, if anyone can find some dialogue from Patsy where she is talking about how her poor child must have felt in the last few minutes of her life and what pain she must have gone through....I'd be interested to see it.
The thought that something like that could ever happen to my child cripples me sometimes,and even if I think too hard about what the final moments might have been like for JonBenet....I could cry for the pain she went through, for all the little kiddies that have had their lives taken from them so young and so tragically.

 

[capps]

Well, there you go. Do you know until reading what you just said Why Nutt, I didn't really think about the fact that I have NEVER once read anything from Patsy concerning the pain and suffering that JonBenet inevitably went through the night she died. It's true, if anyone can find some dialogue from Patsy where she is talking about how her poor child must have felt in the last few minutes of her life and what pain she must have gone through....I'd be interested to see it.
The thought that something like that could ever happen to my child cripples me sometimes,and even if I think too hard about what the final moments might have been like for JonBenet....I could cry for the pain she went through, for all the little kiddies that have had their lives taken from them so young and so tragically.

Whatever gets her through another day .... and if that means Patsy focusing on JonBenet being in a better place,instead of the horrors she went through on Dec. 25/26 .... then so be it.

 

[concernedperson]

Whatever gets her through another day .... and if that means Patsy focusing on JonBenet being in a better place,instead of the horrors she went through on Dec. 25/26 .... then so be it.

So like Patsy!

 

[narlacat]

Whatever gets her through another day .... and if that means Patsy focusing on JonBenet being in a better place,instead of the horrors she went through on Dec. 25/26 .... then so be it.

I'm not saying Patsy should FOCUS on the horror, but I've never once read where she has acknowledged the pain that her daughter must have gone through.
Why Nutt is right, all we've heard about is Patsy's pain,loss and suffering.
I just couldn't believe it when I realised that the title of the book....DOI....meant the death of THEIR innocence....you could have knocked me over with a feather, I was astounded...I truly thought that the title was referring to the death of their innocent child.

 

[tipper]

I'm not saying Patsy should FOCUS on the horror, but I've never once read where she has acknowledged the pain that her daughter must have gone through.
Why Nutt is right, all we've heard about is Patsy's pain,loss and suffering.
I just couldn't believe it when I realised that the title of the book....DOI....meant the death of THEIR innocence....you could have knocked me over with a feather, I was astounded...I truly thought that the title was referring to the death of their innocent child.

If I have a complaint about that title it is that it has been used over and over and I would have hoped they might come up with something more creative.

For instance:
The Death of Innocence

by Nancy McDaniel

September 11, 2002

September 11, 2001 started out for me, as it did for most, as just an ordinary September day. Just an ordinary Tuesday. Oddly enough, it was the 15th anniversary of my father’s death. It was the morning after the opening night of a wonderful new play I attended. It was the day before I was to fly to Los Angeles for a walk on role on the hit TV show CSI. The day started off expectantly hopeful. It changed dramatically.
______________________________
Death of Innocence, written by Mamie Till-Mobley and Christopher Benson, details the events surrounding her son-Emmett Till's, murder. The book portrays the emotional and political condition of America throughout the Civil Rights Movement era. Mrs. Till-Mobley puts the murder and the subsequent trial in a greater context, showing the role those events had in inspiring participation, particularly by the younger generation, to the Civil Rights Movement.

_________________________________
Sister Helen Prejean
The book contains the stories of two men I believe to be innocent who were executed and whom I accompanied to their deaths. The stories are going to break your heart. Then there's the story of the Supreme Court and the appeals courts which deny constitutional rights and rubber stamp death sentences without ever allowing a fresh hearing of the evidence. I encountered Justice Antonin Scalia in the New Orleans airport (would you believe he goes duck hunting with my brother Louie in Louisiana?). My encounter with him opens the chapter entitled "The Machinery of Death." The last chapter is called "The Death of Innocence" and tells stories of jurors and prosecutors and judges and wardens and politicians who get tainted and corrupted by the death penalty. In the end, with government killings snaring both innocent and guilty alike, we all lose our innocence

___________________
1915, THE DEATH OF INNOCENCE

Author: Macdonald, L. Stock Code: MBNS1792

London Penguin Books 1997 Fine pbk Paperback 200mm x 130mm 625 pages some b/w photos, few maps English text


_____________________
Death of innocence: a case of murder in Vermont. - book reviews
Psychology Today, Sept, 1985 by Sal Alfano

Save a personal copy of this article and quickly find it again with Furl.net. It's free! Error! Hyperlink reference not valid.

On May 15, 1981, Melissa Walbridge and Megan O'Rourke, 12-year-old sixth-graders in the quiet Vermont town of Essex Junction, were brutaly raped and tortured as they took a shortcut home through a wooded section of park near their school. Remarkably, Meghan O'Rourke survived the attacked and was able to describe the attackers. Had she been a little older she might have been able to tell police what neither they nor anyone in the community was fully able to comprehend, even after the criminals were in custody: that this grisly assault upon innocent children was committed by two boys not much older than their victims--15-year-old Jamie Savage and 16-year-old Louis Hamlin.

The grim events of that day and the concussive aftermath for an outraged citizenry who thought something like this "couldn't happen here" are the subject of journalist Peter Meyer's Death of Innocence: A Case of Murder in Vermont (G.P. Putnam's Sons, $17.95).

 

[Jayelles]

Why_Nut suggests that the Ramseys had nothing to gain from talking about their empathy with JonBenet's pain and suffering. I'm not so sure about that - after all, many of us here have criticised the fact that they seemed to be more pre-occupied with being considered suspects than devastated at the terror and brutality which their tiny daughter suffred prior to her death.

The Ramseys had ample opportunities to put their "official" story out there - CNN, DOI and countless other interviews. We saw certain repetitions - rehearsed little speeches. However, Why_Nut is absolutely correct that we never saw anything about what JonBenet suffered - it was all about the Ramseys loss.

Personally, I am pretty certain it would kill me to think that one of my children had suffered terror at the hands of a monster before his/her life was snuffed out. It would kill me to think my child had called out for me and I had been blissfully unaware of his/her cries. THAT would preoccupy my thoughts and I am perfectly sure that I wouldn't give a damn about anything other than finding the monster who did it - preferably before the police did and then I would happily do time for a vengeance killing.

 

[Kaly]

I agree that it was all about the Ramseys. None of us have any conception what it must be like to have been bred into that wealthy Southern socialite culture. I once worked as an assistant for an extremely wealthy couple who lived in a - literal - castle. Their life was so far from anything we've ever experienced, you can't comprehend it. They were totally self centered.

What their peers thought MATTERED ABOVE ALL. The husband would spend the entire day poolside - and the pool was monogrammed on the bottom - talking on his cell phone. The wife, who was an Ex-Nun, actually said to one of her friends one day, "You mean SHE has to WORK?" Frikkin' snob! They simply don't live on the same earth as us. She played tennis all day long and lunched with her girlfriends in 4 -star restaurants every day.

What's really funny is that they WENT DOWN BIGTIME. He cheated on her, an employee embezzled from them, and she wrote a very long, best seller about the jerk and what he did to her. The negative publicity literally ran him out of town. She had to go back to work! They were brought down a notch or two. I can definitely imagine that if a death happened to them like with JB, their first horror would be for themselves.

 

[Eagle1]

I remember reading, probably in PerfectMurder,PerfectTown but I'm not sure, that John Ramsey said something about failing to protect his little girl, showing he felt bad about that. Also, when he and a few friends went for a walk, towards the foothills, he was quoted as saying "I'm so sorry," as if someone had maybe been telling him what he did wrong. Not very nice at such a time, if you ask me, but what do I know?

The R's didn't hire any political advisor, that we know of, to coach them as to exactly how they should say things and what things to say for popularity. They weren't that concerned about that. Maybe should have hired someone. But would any one of us expect criticizm about whatever we didn't say out loud?

I'm sure they went through all that any bereavement entails, plus, there still may be something that will turn up which we never would have dreamed of, like "outing" someone who's gotten some laws that you can't "out" them, not saying Valerie Plame or anyone in particular. Another Ames? Wasn't that the last one there was publicity about? The konformist.com site used to have such a theory. There's no law that they have to share absolutely every thought with the public, who should have the empathy to imagine what the R's are going through.

IOW, where's OUR empathy, if we just criticize them, probably because we're unable to help. One time I read somewhere that's a possible human reaction. I wouldn't know for sure.

 

[Sabrina]

The Ramseys hired a public relations firm, who later John criticized. The name escapes me right now, but they were instrumental in organizing the media at what many referred to as a staged event-- the memorial service in Boulder.

They also organized the infamous press conference with the secret passwords, where noone was allowed to ask the Ramseys certain questions. Between the attorneys and a public relations firm, the Ramseys were well coached from the getgo.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I still believe Patsy had something to do with this and I always will. Sorry but I can't get pass Jonbenet and how she didn't deserve what happened to her. If Burke was involved it is still Patsy who was responsible to make this right. She didn't and Jonbenet is still buried without a right. So wrong, so wrong.

Oh I never meant to imply she had nothing to do with it! My theory is posted in the theory thread

 

[Zman]

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:





In my post I tried to reference DOI, but I had soo much to say I couldn't form a logical sentence.
What a pile of self serving tripe. Basically the whole book could have consisted of this: "We are the best family to ever walk the earth. We are the most wronged parents in the world."

They put themselves on the COVER?? WTF?

They truly are vile people. IMO

Lets try this agian.

As this thread proves the R's have been de-humanized in every form of media available. Is it any wonder they would write a book that attempts to humanize them agian (albeit overwrought) and put their own picture on the cover? Not to mention that if the R's are covering up the murder of JBR why would they be writing books in the first place? Seems to me they would want to disappear ASAP. Not take chances by being quoted and giving out facts in a book.

 

[Brefie]

Lets try this agian.

As this thread proves the R's have been de-humanized in every form of media available. Is it any wonder they would write a book that attempts to humanize them agian (albeit overwrought) and put their own picture on the cover? Not to mention that if the R's are covering up the murder of JBR why would they be writing books in the first place? Seems to me they would want to disappear ASAP. Not take chances by being quoted and giving out facts in a book.

YES, it's a great wonder to me why they felt the need to humanize themselves again. IT IS NOT ABOUT JOHN AND PATSY!!! Why do they need the world to love them?? Why not concentrate on finding the killer? The Van Dams (I think it was them) didn't give a damn what anyone thought of their lifestyle. I am sure in any other circumstance it would have been pretty mortifying - did they send the pr machine out? NO, they found their daughters killer. Or at least did everything they could to help.

And I sure do not think that publishing a book must mean they are innocent. AND we do not know that every word they wrote was fact - like you said elsewhere - this book was filtered by lawyers, sooooooooooooo............
Not to mention the fact that the main focus of the book were about how great they were - can't get arrested for that. Everything else regarding facts and quotes were already out there. You don't honestly believe that they wrote the account in DOI of that morning from memory? Without going over their original police statements and other official reports.

One more thing - "Let's try this again'????? Okay, I came here for a friendly discussion. I love to hash things out with people who have different opinions, but please don't act like you are dealing with a 4 year old who is not getting it.

 

[JBRMod2]

Just a friendly reminder to keep the discussions polite. Leave personal comments out or the posts will be deleted.

 

[Brefie]

Gotcha, JBRMod2. If I was outta line - let me know - will erase last part of my post.
Although, my intention is to keep it polite.

 

[narlacat]

It's not Brefie that is out of line.
It is Zman.
Have you not noticed some of his posts?
His intention is to be rude and put people down.

 

[sissi]

Did anyone catch the program last night on crt.tv,concerning the crimes of Thomas McCarthy? Interesting in that he chose to take women down to their basements to bind them, he stunned them with a stun gun when he remembered to carry one, and if he didn't have one he would splice wires from a nearby appliance to give them an electric shock. More interesting is the amount of time he spent stalking his victims,often gaining access to their homes , spending hours going through their belongings to gather info about them prior to his final acts. This is the high risk , kind of guy, I would expect to have murdered Jonbenet.

http://www.cleveland.com/news/index.ssf?/news/pd/cc14mccart.html

 

[capps]

Sissi,

It's always a possibility.
I don't think it's a far-fetched idea,to think someone had access to the Ramsey house that night and killed JonBenet.IMO, it's another theory that should not be dismissed.

 

[Zman]

​

One more thing - "Let's try this again'????? Okay, I came here for a friendly discussion. I love to hash things out with people who have different opinions, but please don't act like you are dealing with a 4 year old who is not getting it.

The "lets try this agian" was aimed at myself. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was looking for another way to say something and for what ever reason I started my post with the phrase that was in my head.