PA - Assassination attempt, shooting injures former POTUS Donald Trump, leaves 1 spectator deceased two in critical condition, 13 July 2024 #5

[Ontario Mom]

What is "sovereign citizen" movement? Police say Vem Miller was member

Police said Vem Miller, the man arrested for having guns at a California Trump rally, is associated with the anti-government movement.

www.newsweek.com

"The vehicle was unregistered and the license plate was indicative of what we in law enforcement would recognize as one that is homemade and indicative of a group of individuals that claim to be sovereign citizens," he said. "The deputy assumes that he was part of that identifying group." The Press Enterprise reported that Miller "flatly denied" being part of the movement."

I'm just not buying it. Assuming someone is associated with the movement (because of a homemade license plate?) is a lot different than having evidence to document it as fact.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

"The vehicle was unregistered and the license plate was indicative of what we in law enforcement would recognize as one that is homemade and indicative of a group of individuals that claim to be sovereign citizens," he said. "The deputy assumes that he was part of that identifying group." The Press Enterprise reported that Miller "flatly denied" being part of the movement."

I'm just not buying it. Assuming someone is associated with the movement (because of a homemade license plate?) is a lot different than having evidence to document it as fact.

I don't believe Vem Miller and do believe the LE suspicions.

I've watched numerous YouTube videos of sovereign citizens interacting with LE and they never admit that they are a sovereign. In fact they often get angry if someone calls them that. JMO.

 

[Friday Fan]

He's a Sovereign Citizen so he's definitely full of baloney.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/stories/2010/april/sovereigncitizens_041310/domestic-terrorism-the-sovereign-citizen-movement

He will just file FOI requests about his arrest and anything surrounding it etc ad nauseum! Needless FOI requests are part of the SC MO! He will then think of million reasons for other FOI requests from Riverside County

(Since frivolous Freedom of Information Requests are not illegal, I guess the FBI didn't bring that up!)

 

[Friday Fan]

I don't believe Vem Miller and do believe the LE suspicions.

I've watched numerous YouTube videos of sovereign citizens interacting with LE and they never admit that they are a sovereign. In fact they often get angry if someone calls them that. JMO.

I've seen those too. "I don't need to show you my driver's license!"

 

[Ontario Mom]

It'll be interesting to see how this plays out:

"Vem Miller, 49, told the Los Angeles Times that Riverside County Sheriff Chad Bianco committed “career suicide” by speculating that his arrest had “probably stopped another assassination attempt.” “As of right this second, I could prove everything they said is untrue. It’s just going to be bad. That sheriff is going to lose his job,” Miller told the outlet, adding that his lawyers are preparing the “massive lawsuit.” Arrested MAGA supporter Vem Miller threatens ‘massive lawsuit’ against sheriff who suggested he wanted to assassinate Trump

 

[Friday Fan]

"The vehicle was unregistered and the license plate was indicative of what we in law enforcement would recognize as one that is homemade and indicative of a group of individuals that claim to be sovereign citizens," he said. "The deputy assumes that he was part of that identifying group." The Press Enterprise reported that Miller "flatly denied" being part of the movement."

I'm just not buying it. Assuming someone is associated with the movement (because of a homemade license plate?) is a lot different than having evidence to document it as fact.

He sounds like a sovereign citizen to me. Sovereign citizen is a "behavior"...It's not a "club" or a "group". It's also not illegal to be a sovereign citizen. The FBI cites them because they may be involved in illegal behavior. But not all sovereign citizens are involved in illegal behavior. 99% of them are involved in behavior that tends to hamper govt agencies with needless requests. They are needless thorns in everyone's side, so that many times governments have to donate a significant amount of time meeting their endless requests instead of meeting the public's need.

Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ontario Mom]

He sounds like a sovereign citizen to me. Sovereign citizen is a "behavior"...It's not a "club" or a "group". It's also not illegal to be a sovereign citizen. The FBI cites them because they may be involved in illegal behavior. But not all sovereign citizens are involved in illegal behavior. 99% of them are involved in behavior that tends to hamper govt agencies with needless requests. They are needless thorns in everyone's side, so that many times governments have to donate a significant amount of time meeting their endless requests instead of meeting the public's need.

Sovereign citizen movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Even if he is associated with those folks, or might be a raging wacko in some other way, his claim is that the information released to the public was all manufactured to make him look like a criminal threat. The passports and IDs aren't fake, they're in his actual (legal) name, the guns are registered in his name in his home state and he wasn't aware of the different laws state to state, and that he's an actual, dyed in the wool MAGA dude, and never had any intention at all, of hurting Trump or anyone else.

Again, I think this got hyped to be something it wasn't.

 

[Elley Mae]

"The Panel has observed that many of the Secret Service personnel involved in the events of July 13 appear to have done little in the way of self-reflection in terms of identifying areas of missteps, omissions, or opportunities for improvement," the report said. "July 13 represents a historic security failure by the Secret Service which almost led to the death of a former president and current nominee and did lead to the death of a rally attendee."

'Without reform' to the Secret Service 'another Butler can and will happen again,' DHS independent review finds

"Without reform" to the Secret Service "another Butler can and will happen again," DHS independent review finds

abcnews.go.com

…
“Historic security failure” I agree.
…
President Joe Biden's administration launched an independent probe that released its findings on Thursday, criticizing the Secret Service and suggesting a number of recommendations.
"The Secret Service has become bureaucratic, complacent, and static even though risks have multiplied and technology has evolved," the panel wrote, saying it uncovered numerous mistakes that led to the July 13 attack, and called for fundamental reform.
"Without that reform, the Independent Review Panel believes another Butler can and will happen again."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/review-says-us-secret-service-complacent-needs-reform-2024-10-17/

 

[Betty P]

"The Panel has observed that many of the Secret Service personnel involved in the events of July 13 appear to have done little in the way of self-reflection in terms of identifying areas of missteps, omissions, or opportunities for improvement," the report said. "July 13 represents a historic security failure by the Secret Service which almost led to the death of a former president and current nominee and did lead to the death of a rally attendee."

'Without reform' to the Secret Service 'another Butler can and will happen again,' DHS independent review finds

"Without reform" to the Secret Service "another Butler can and will happen again," DHS independent review finds

abcnews.go.com

…
“Historic security failure” I agree.
…
President Joe Biden's administration launched an independent probe that released its findings on Thursday, criticizing the Secret Service and suggesting a number of recommendations.
"The Secret Service has become bureaucratic, complacent, and static even though risks have multiplied and technology has evolved," the panel wrote, saying it uncovered numerous mistakes that led to the July 13 attack, and called for fundamental reform.
"Without that reform, the Independent Review Panel believes another Butler can and will happen again."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/review-says-us-secret-service-complacent-needs-reform-2024-10-17/

From the link, these seem like good recommendations:

Recommendations include overhead surveillance for outdoor events with presidential candidates, a situation report at the time the person being protected arrives and that at least one representative from the Secret Service and each state and local law enforcement agency are together at the communications hub.

I assume they're referring to equipment like drones for overhead surveillance, though helicopters might also be used. Drones would be easier to use than helos or having someone climb atop the nearest tall building, etc.

Also good to have a member from each state and local LE at the command center. There's probably no other way to resolve the problem of differing types of communication/radio systems being used by each branch of LE. They should also test those local systems well in advance of the start of the event to make sure everyone's radio is working properly and not experiencing any interference. I'll always remember the tragedy on 9-11 when the first responders radios didn't work inside the WTC towers.

 

[Betty P]

JMO, there will also be ongoing difficulties in assessing risk of people at the event when so many of Trump's supporters routinely carry weapons, live ammo, bullet proof clothing, etc.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847008993882808465

 

[Mica]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847008993882808465

Based on the panel’s recommendation, will Acting SS Director Ronald Rowe be removed?

From the article…

[…]

The report recommended that the USSS bring in new, outside leadership to refocus the agency on its protective mission.

 

[zleuther]

"The Panel has observed that many of the Secret Service personnel involved in the events of July 13 appear to have done little in the way of self-reflection in terms of identifying areas of missteps, omissions, or opportunities for improvement," the report said. "July 13 represents a historic security failure by the Secret Service which almost led to the death of a former president and current nominee and did lead to the death of a rally attendee."

'Without reform' to the Secret Service 'another Butler can and will happen again,' DHS independent review finds

"Without reform" to the Secret Service "another Butler can and will happen again," DHS independent review finds

abcnews.go.com

…
“Historic security failure” I agree.
…
President Joe Biden's administration launched an independent probe that released its findings on Thursday, criticizing the Secret Service and suggesting a number of recommendations.
"The Secret Service has become bureaucratic, complacent, and static even though risks have multiplied and technology has evolved," the panel wrote, saying it uncovered numerous mistakes that led to the July 13 attack, and called for fundamental reform.
"Without that reform, the Independent Review Panel believes another Butler can and will happen again."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/review-says-us-secret-service-complacent-needs-reform-2024-10-17/

Thanks, here's the PDF...

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2024-10/24_1017_opa-Independent-Review-Panel-Final-Report-and-Accompanying-Materials.pdf

 

[zleuther]

Thanks, here's the PDF...

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2024-10/24_1017_opa-Independent-Review-Panel-Final-Report-and-Accompanying-Materials.pdf

From the link...

6:12:11 PM: Local radio message (Ops-4) from Local CS 2: “Shooter is down, 10 Sierra 3, shooter is down.”

...previously we knew it was one or the other of the AGR snipers, now we know it was Sgt. Nicol which is significant --> he was at a SECOND FLOOR WINDOW at 6:12:11
(as opposed to first floor for example, and remember one of my hunches is that another sergeant the BTPD Sgt wanted to get in a door by the building's NW corner a minute earlier to ask the AGR snipers what the heck they were doing about the guy on the roof)

 

[sds71]

Statement regarding Sunday night’s game at Acrisure Stadium:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847730770766418129

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

JMO, there will also be ongoing difficulties in assessing risk of people at the event when so many of Trump's supporters routinely carry weapons, live ammo, bullet proof clothing, etc.

Link for specifics?

Puts Trump supporters in a not so nice light...

wonder why you do that?

I am a Trump supporter...

And I do not repeatedly place our opponent's supporters in a bad light....

Please keep your biased opinions in your own head...

Thank you!

 

[Sundog]

Statement regarding Sunday night’s game at Acrisure Stadium:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1847730770766418129

Should be a good game!
Also, the two former Steelers' players who appeared on stage at the rally last night in PA will be joining President Trump in the suite where he will be a guest.

 

[Elley Mae]

“Put simply, the evidence obtained by the task force to date shows the tragic and shocking events of July 13 were preventable and should not have happened,” the report said.

Events That Led to Close Call on Trump’s Life Were Preventable, Committee Finds

A House task force report included detailed accounts from law enforcement at the Butler, Pa., rally, including an officer who confronted the gunman.

www.nytimes.com

…

'Stunning security failures' led to assassination attempt at Trump rally, House report finds

'Stunning security failures' led to assassination attempt at Trump rally, House report finds

The shooting at former President Donald Trump’s Pennsylvania rally in July was “preventable and should not have happened."

abcnews.go.com

 

[Simply Southern]

Task Force Interim Staff Report Chronicles Stunning Security Failures and Key New Findings in Investigation of Trump Assassination Attempt in Butler, Pa.

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Today, the Task Force on the Attempted Assassination of Donald J. Trump released a bipartisan interim report entitled “Interim Staff Report: Investigating the Stunning Security Failures on July 13, 2024, in Butler, Pennsylvania.”

taskforce.house.gov

 

[Elley Mae]

Thanks @Simply Southern

From your link.

https://taskforce.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/july13taskforce.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/task-force-interim-staff-report-10.21.2024.pdf