PA - Conner, 8, & Brinley Snyder, 4, found hung, later died, Kempton, 23 Sept 2019 *Arrest*

[gitana1]

I'm not sure you're understanding how these work exactly. I think it would be incredibly easy for someone to pull this off, and I actually hate that it might be giving people easy ideas about how to die by suicide!

Well I’m not sure I’m understanding exactly what was used even. So you might be right. But I think it’s the kind of tie out lead used for dogs. Thin chain with those lock clasp things at both ends? I can’t see how an effective loop could be made without involving those two ends.

Then the 8 year old would have to get two chairs, place them under a beam, reach the beam so he can hang the chain over it, and somehow rig it so both kids’ nevks Would be placed in two loops at opposite ends with the beam in the middle and the chain wrapped around it, figure out the length in order for BOTH kids to hang if the chairs got knocked over, Then get his sister to willingly have the loop placed around her neck and either hang her first or convince her somehow to kick the chair out from under her simultaneously with him, and it just seems too complex for a kid that age to figure out and actually carry out.

But I could definitely be wrong. I just can’t picture it.

The timing is also weird. They were revived enough to be on life support for a few days. I mean they likely had brain death but their deaths weren’t quick. It took 11 minutes for EMT to get there. That indicates to me that it wasn’t quick. They must’ve been slowly strangling and that the nooses weren’t that effective. But it means to me that the mom had to have found them immediately when they hanged. Not minutes later even.

Which is also suspicious to me.

I don’t know.

 

[kittythehare]

It states in news articles EMTs found C and B hanging. I hate rumors and this case is rampant with them on social media .. but from everything I read , it is reported they were.

What I meant was and probably phrased poorly,
what time did the medics leave that house.
How long were they there exactly is my question.

 

[downwardspiral]

Well I’m not sure I’m understanding exactly what was used even. So you might be right. But I think it’s the kind of tie out lead used for dogs. Thin chain with those lock clasp things at both ends? I can’t see how an effective loop could be made without involving those two ends.

Then the 8 year old would have to get two chairs, place them under a beam, reach the beam so he can hang the chain over it, and somehow rig it so both kids’ nevks Would be placed in two loops at opposite ends with the beam in the middle and the chain wrapped around it, figure out the length in order for BOTH kids to hang if the chairs got knocked over, Then get his sister to willingly have the loop placed around her neck and either hang her first or convince her somehow to kick the chair out from under her simultaneously with him, and it just seems too complex for a kid that age to figure out and actually carry out.

But I could definitely be wrong. I just can’t picture it.

The timing is also weird. They were revived enough to be on life support for a few days. I mean they likely had brain death but their deaths weren’t quick. It took 11 minutes for EMT to get there. That indicates to me that it wasn’t quick. They must’ve been slowly strangling and that the noises weren’t that effective. But it means to me that the mom had to have found them immediately when they hanged. Not minutes later even.

Which is also suspicious to me.

I don’t know.

Exactly. The timing here is very important. A. She found them immediately after
B. She called right after she did it

 

[downwardspiral]

What I meant was and probably phrased poorly,
what time did the medics leave that house.
How long were they there exactly is my question.

Unfortunately the incident logs do not reflect those times

 

[gitana1]

There is no evidence she sat outside smoking the entire time. She was allegedly seen outside crying nad smoking and on her phone AFTER the emergency services had entered. That's not the same thing. There is no way to know right now anything about the complexity or simplicity of the mechanism, the size or depth of the alleged dog chain, or the nature of the scene discovered when medics and or fire crews entered the space.

There’s actually no evidence she sat outside smoking at all. Which is why I didn’t mention smoking in this post. I also said it’s being discussed whether mom sat around and did nothing or not. Because that fact apparently indeed has not been established.

 

[kittythehare]

Exactly. The timing here is very important. A. She found them immediately after
B. She called right after she did it

she was local and she would possibly have been aware of response times.
Did she call them immediately after it happened or immediately after she discovered them?
Surely the eMT operator would have given her instructions for cutting them down or unhooking them or whatever seemsed to be required? We will have to await answers to that one , however

 

[gitana1]

Edited - sorry just found out I can’t post this here

That’s just weird to me.

 

[downwardspiral]

There’s actually no evidence she sat outside smoking at all. Which is why I didn’t mention smoking in this post. I also said it’s being discussed whether mom sat around and did nothing or not. Because that fact apparently indeed has not been established.

Agreed. Completely unknown at this point past rumor and hearsay

 

[kittythehare]

Unfortunately the incident logs do not reflect those times

Aw thanks... I was hoping they would... any I've seen give a blow by blow, minute by minute report and graphs, but perhaps they are more detailed logs and only made available for court hearings.

 

[downwardspiral]

she was local and she would possibly have been aware of response times.
Did she call them immediately after it happened or immediately after she discovered them?
Surely the eMT operator would have given her instructions for cutting them down or unhooking them or whatever seemsed to be required? We will have to await answers to that one , however

Agreed ! Wish we had more verifiable info

 

[downwardspiral]

Aw thanks... I was hoping they would... any I've seen give a blow by blow, minute by minute report and graphs, but perhaps they are more detailed logs and only made available for court hearings.

Unfortunately the logs I have have a call number (assigned each call) call received , dispatch, enroute, address, classification, cross streets

 

[TTF14]

Well I’m not sure I’m understanding exactly what was used even. So you might be right. But I think it’s the kind of tie out lead used for dogs. Thin chain with those lock clasp things at both ends? I can’t see how an effective loop could be made without involving those two ends.

Then the 8 year old would have to get two chairs, place them under a beam, reach the beam so he can hang the chain over it, and somehow rig it so both kids’ nevks Would be placed in two loops at opposite ends with the beam in the middle and the chain wrapped around it, figure out the length in order for BOTH kids to hang if the chairs got knocked over, Then get his sister to willingly have the loop placed around her neck and either hang her first or convince her somehow to kick the chair out from under her simultaneously with him, and it just seems too complex for a kid that age to figure out and actually carry out.

But I could definitely be wrong. I just can’t picture it.

The timing is also weird. They were revived enough to be on life support for a few days. I mean they likely had brain death but their deaths weren’t quick. It took 11 minutes for EMT to get there. That indicates to me that it wasn’t quick. They must’ve been slowly strangling and that the noises weren’t that effective. But it means to me that the mom had to have found them immediately when they hanged. Not minutes later even.

Which is also suspicious to me.

I don’t know.

Well, I don't think 8 year old did it, and I think a grownup could figure it out just fine.

Picture this - you take your dog for a ride somewhere only to realize when you get there that your dog doesn't have his collar on....you only have his leash. So you have to use the leash AS the collar and the leash. How do you clasp it? You wrap around his neck, and fasten the clasp to the leash itself. It tightens around your dogs throat as he pulls.

BOTH ends of these dogs leads are exactly the same and have these clasps. I have one outside for my dog. I wrap one end around the deck railing exactly like I described above (like I am leashing a collarless dog), and the other end I just clasp "normally" to the metal ring on his collar.

If I was going to hang two people, I'd just wrap the lead around the beam a few times to shorten it to the desired length on both ends.

 

[downwardspiral]

That’s just weird to me.

It was just a friendly message, nothing official.. just a nice disclosure anything Facebook related isn’t allowed. All but one thing I have I obtained myself including proof she joined a crime page. But I want to avoid crazy rumors and speculation On SM so I will not post anything that could be questionable to what’s allowed I’d really like to stay

 

[gitana1]

Well, I don't think 8 year old did it, and I think a grownup could figure it out just fine.

Picture this - you take your dog for a ride somewhere only to realize when you get there that your dog doesn't have his collar on....you only have his leash. So you have to use the leash AS the collar and the leash. How do you clasp it? You wrap around his neck, and fasten the clasp to the leash itself. It tightens around your dogs throat as he pulls.

BOTH ends of these dogs leads are exactly the same and have these clasps. I have one outside for my dog. I wrap one end around the deck railing exactly like I described above (like I am leashing a collarless dog), and the other end I just clasp "normally" to the metal ring on his collar.

If I was going to hang two people, I'd just wrap the lead around the beam a few times to shorten it to the desired length on both ends.

Makes sense. I mean that’s sort of how I pictured it. But you still have to measure the length correctly. I mean yeah. Easy for an adult to think up and figure out but for me, I don’t see an 8 year old figuring this out.

 

[TTF14]

It was just a friendly message, nothing official.. just a nice disclosure anything Facebook related isn’t allowed. All but one thing I have I obtained myself including proof she joined a crime page. But I want to avoid crazy rumors and speculation On SM so I will not post anything that could be questionable to what’s allowed I’d really like to stay

I don't think anyone's gonna kick you out for making rookie mistakes .

 

[downwardspiral]

Makes sense. I mean that’s sort of how I pictured it. But you still have to measure the length correctly. I mean yeah. Easy for an adult to think up and figure out but for me, I don’t see an 8 year old figuring this out.

It is highly complex problem solving for an 8 year old who is suicidal as well as homicidal. Multiple steps involved from retrieving the leash, to the chairs (whether brought down or were already there ) there would be no give IF the leash was wrapped as reported - so I’d imagine some trial and error to get the appropriate lengths. It’s highly counterintuitive, not impossible I guess, for this to have been executed by an 8 year old child - directly off the bus and in a limited time frame

 

[Seattle1]

But does it say anywhere that EMT’s could not get them down? There’s been tons of rumor on social media and I’m finding much has no basis in anything at all.

As far as I know, 911 calls for emergency medical service (EMS) also come with response by the fire department.

I understand this is because medical emergencies sometimes occur in hazardous environments, or at the scene of a crime, and a two-unit response provides for greater level safety of patients, personnel, and bystanders.

Relative to the 911 call released to the media -- it was the conversation between the 911 operator and the Fire Captain that was disclosed:

On the recording, as crews rush to the scene, a fire captain asks the dispatcher, “Any indication from the caller if the scene is safe or how these children ended up there?”

The dispatcher responds, “She mentioned that the 8-year-old has been bullied and has made threats of doing this, but didn’t want to go alone. ... At this time, it should just be the mother and the two children on scene.”

I believe fire department personnel are also paramedics, but I've read here that this area is served by volunteer fire department so don't exactly know the resources here.

What is clear though is that fire captain was aware of the scene (children hanging from ceiling) they were responding to, and it doesn't figure how there would be a problem for first responders to get them down. They must have acted quickly if they revived them, right?

 

[Deleted member 278]

What stands out to me is mom didn’t reveal them all. Her son did.

What stands out even more is she didn't turn over the very phone that she used to call 911.

 

[gitana1]

Here’s an article with a video showing the house and the mom.

911 dispatch recordings suggest boy found dead in Berks County home was bullied and 'didn't want to go alone'

 

[gitana1]

As far as I know, 911 calls for emergency medical service (EMS) also come with response by the fire department.

I understand this is because medical emergencies sometimes occur in hazardous environments, or at the scene of a crime, and a two-unit response provides for greater level safety of patients, personnel, and bystanders.

Relative to the 911 call released to the media -- it was the conversation between the 911 operator and the Fire Captain that was disclosed:

On the recording, as crews rush to the scene, a fire captain asks the dispatcher, “Any indication from the caller if the scene is safe or how these children ended up there?”

The dispatcher responds, “She mentioned that the 8-year-old has been bullied and has made threats of doing this, but didn’t want to go alone. ... At this time, it should just be the mother and the two children on scene.”

I believe fire department personnel are also paramedics, but I've read here that this area is served by volunteer fire department so don't exactly know the resources here.

What is clear though is that fire captain was aware of the scene (children hanging from ceiling) they were responding to, and it doesn't figure how there would be a problem for first responders to get them down. They must have acted quickly if they revived them, right?

Right. That all makes sense to me. People are saying that EMS couldn’t get the kids down and had to call fire. But the fire department is a first responder. They automatically go out to these calls. They often arrive first!