PA PA - Cpl. Robert Corriveau, 20, Downington, 18 Nov 1968

[jacksonbrown]

What is the issue date on the ID card?

No date and it was his original card

 

[jacksonbrown]

Me too, and so did several veterans associations

Also it troubles me that his wallet and license were not part of what was found

 

[Richard]

No date and it was his original card

I think that if it is his original ID, then he must have left it behind at home, probably with hid dog tags, when taken to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital.

If found in the hospital, the ID card would not have been sent by the Navy or Marine Corps to a family member. It would have been attached to his Service record or at least the number cut off and attached to a page.

Another theory might be that the tags and ID card were taken from Robert after he was murdered and sent to his mother by the killer at some later date.

 

[jacksonbrown]

I think that if it is his original ID, then he must have left it behind at home, probably with hid dog tags, when taken to the Philadelphia Naval Hospital.

If found in the hospital, the ID card would not have been sent by the Navy or Marine Corps to a family member. It would have been attached to his Service record or at least the number cut off and attached to a page.

Another theory might be that the tags and ID card were taken from Robert after he was murdered and sent to his mother by the killer at some later date.

I was provided with the service record book at the direction of the commandant of the Marine Corps. He instructed the records be sent to me by Lorraine Thompson. I also spoke with Chief warrant officer John J Adams from the office of desertion. They provided me with all of his records they could, and did not attached a cut off id card nor dog tags.

I met directly with Senator John Kerry and Senator Edward Kennedy who were extremely helpful. I was contacted by Sgt Alicia Dexter from the department of desertion on October 11, 2011. I sent photos of my brother. They knew it was a match. I received a call from Special agent Julie Haines on December 5th, 2011 who confirmed it was my brother. He had been stabbed through his heart and lung and where his body was located.

I called the PSP the next day to arrange a meeting so I could provide them with the information I collected through the years. I provided my DNA to match with my brother. Since his last location was in Philadelphia, PA he should have been reported missing from there. He was not reported missing by his mother who felt the Marine Corps was in charge of him. Had he been reported missing , his body could have been Id'd immediately as newspaper articles were posted in both Lancaster and Philadelphia. Completely heartbreaking.

 

[Richard]

I was provided with the service record book at the direction of the commandant of the Marine Corps. He instructed the records be sent to me by Lorraine Thompson. I also spoke with Chief warrant officer John J Adams from the office of desertion. They provided me with all of his records they could, and did not attached a cut off id card nor dog tags.

I met directly with Senator John Kerry and Senator Edward Kennedy who were extremely helpful. I was contacted by Sgt Alicia Dexter from the department of desertion on October 11, 2011. I sent photos of my brother. They knew it was a match. I received a call from Special agent Julie Haines on December 5th, 2011 who confirmed it was my brother. He had been stabbed through his heart and lung and where his body was located.

I called the PSP the next day to arrange a meeting so I could provide them with the information I collected through the years. I provided my DNA to match with my brother. Since his last location was in Philadelphia, PA he should have been reported missing from there. He was not reported missing by his mother who felt the Marine Corps was in charge of him. Had he been reported missing , his body could have been Id'd immediately as newspaper articles were posted in both Lancaster and Philadelphia. Completely heartbreaking.

There certainly were missed opportunities to have connected Robert's disappearance with the finding of his body on the very day he was missing from morning muster at the hospital.

The fact that his records contained no ID card or dog tags, or any reference to them, tends to strengthen my impression that the ones you have were left behind at the home where he was in convalescence before being transported to Philadelphia.

Upon his arrival, he would have been issued a replacement ID card, and possibly a new set of dog tags by the Marine Corps administrative unit in Philadelphia.

He would have needed to show an ID card to enter and leave the hospital on liberty, as well as for shopping at the Hospital exchange, or checking in with the Marine Corps admin unit to draw pay or allowances.

Whoever killed Robert stole the ID card he was carrying, and dog tags, if he was wearing them, because no identification was found with his body.

Robert was not the only Marine missing from the Naval Hospital in that time frame. There were actually over a dozen service men declared UA (AWOL) around that time. Most were short term absences, which were resolved within a few days by the absentee reporting back in voluntarily.

There were, however, a few cases (like Robert's) which ran beyond 30 days and resulted in administrative declarations of desertion and forwarding of service records.
 
Records of the Marine Corps admin Unit and the Naval Hospital were maintained which reported all arrivals, departures, and absences of patients and assigned personnel. Microfilm copies of those records are on file at National Archives II located at College Park, Maryland.

Those old records were thoroughly scanned, and a number of persons were located and interviewed in an attempt to learn more about general procedures followed at the time, and specifically about Robert and his disappearance.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There are several points about the death that don't fit:

1. Corporal Corriveau apparently did not resist. There could be a number of reasons for that.

2. His body was not hidden. There are literally 100's of places between between Phila and Downingtown to hide a body so that it will not found for days, even today. The area was not even suburban at the time and even today there are woods and farmland.

3. While there was no ID, there was no attempt to conceal Corporal Corriveau's body. There would have ways to remove his fingerprints. It is only because the USMC and PSP did not interface well that his identification took so long.

4. Covering the face was a mark of respect. That would, if anything, call attention to the body, so it was not done to hide the death. As there would be less bulky/less expensive coverings, my guess is that the pea coat was worn by one of the persons who left the body there.

 

[Richard]

There are several points about the death that don't fit:

1. Corporal Corriveau apparently did not resist. There could be a number of reasons for that.

2. His body was not hidden. There are literally 100's of places between between Phila and Downingtown to hide a body so that it will not found for days, even today. The area was not even suburban at the time and even today there are woods and farmland.

3. While there was no ID, there was no attempt to conceal Corporal Corriveau's body. There would have ways to remove his fingerprints. It is only because the USMC and PSP did not interface well that his identification took so long.

4. Covering the face was a mark of respect. That would, if anything, call attention to the body, so it was not done to hide the death. As there would be less bulky/less expensive coverings, my guess is that the pea coat was worn by one of the persons who left the body there.

Good points. The body was placed against a tree in a sitting position, fully clothed in civilian clothing, and covered with a Pea Coat.

The Pea Coat is something that is odd. It is of the style worn by enlisted sailors over their uniforms, but not by Marines.

However, it was also a popular coat worn by civilians, and readily available in either commercial versions or through surplus stores. Robert could have purchased it or borrowed it before checking out of the hospital on liberty.

It is also possible, as you point out, that it might have belonged to his killer. There were no military rank insignia or stencil markings on the coat, which might indicate that it was Navy issue.

There was no puncture mark on the coat, so he was not wearing it when stabbed. The fact that his death occurred at close range from a single stab wound would indicate that he may have known and trusted his assailant, and that the person who stabbed him was practiced or knowledgeable in that method of murder.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There was no puncture mark on the coat, so he was not wearing it when stabbed. The fact that his death occurred at close range from a single stab wound would indicate that he may have known and trusted his assailant, and that the person who stabbed him was practiced or knowledgeable in that method of murder.

Snipped for emphasis only.

1. It might have also indicated that he was intoxicated and could not respond quickly.

2. Though this is difficult, it might indicate a self inflicted wound. We have seen fairly high rates of suicide involving combat veterans today, and Corporal Corriveau had been through a lot.

3. The stabbing could have been accidental, i.e. he was holding an ice pick and stumbled, landing on it and dying instantly.

4. A serial killer who posed the body. However, I don't know of any other victims.

In the cases of 2 and 3, he might have died at the driver's residence and the driver moved the body to the Turnpike so as not be be associated with the death.

My problem with "someone he trusted," would be, who, in SE PA would that be? No family nor any known close friends from civilian life, that we know of, in the area. Possibly someone he served with that just happened to be in the area. Then again, the body was treated with some respect.

I could imagine Corporal Corriveau possibly meeting a woman and going out with her, but would he have that level of trust with someone he just met?

 

[jacksonbrown]

There certainly were missed opportunities to have connected Robert's disappearance with the finding of his body on the very day he was missing from morning muster at the hospital.

The fact that his records contained no ID card or dog tags, or any reference to them, tends to strengthen my impression that the ones you have were left behind at the home where he was in convalescence before being transported to Philadelphia.

Upon his arrival, he would have been issued a replacement ID card, and possibly a new set of dog tags by the Marine Corps administrative unit in Philadelphia.

He would have needed to show an ID card to enter and leave the hospital on liberty, as well as for shopping at the Hospital exchange, or checking in with the Marine Corps admin unit to draw pay or allowances.

Whoever killed Robert stole the ID card he was carrying, and dog tags, if he was wearing them, because no identification was found with his body.

Robert was not the only Marine missing from the Naval Hospital in that time frame. There were actually over a dozen service men declared UA (AWOL) around that time. Most were short term absences, which were resolved within a few days by the absentee reporting back in voluntarily.

There were, however, a few cases (like Robert's) which ran beyond 30 days and resulted in administrative declarations of desertion and forwarding of service records.
 
Records of the Marine Corps admin Unit and the Naval Hospital were maintained which reported all arrivals, departures, and absences of patients and assigned personnel. Microfilm copies of those records are on file at National Archives II located at College Park, Maryland.

Those old records were thoroughly scanned, and a number of persons were located and interviewed in an attempt to learn more about general procedures followed at the time, and specifically about Robert and his disappearance.

There are several points about the death that don't fit:

1. Corporal Corriveau apparently did not resist. There could be a number of reasons for that.

2. His body was not hidden. There are literally 100's of places between between Phila and Downingtown to hide a body so that it will not found for days, even today. The area was not even suburban at the time and even today there are woods and farmland.

3. While there was no ID, there was no attempt to conceal Corporal Corriveau's body. There would have ways to remove his fingerprints. It is only because the USMC and PSP did not interface well that his identification took so long.

4. Covering the face was a mark of respect. That would, if anything, call attention to the body, so it was not done to hide the death. As there would be less bulky/less expensive coverings, my guess is that the pea coat was worn by one of the persons who left the body there.

I 100% agree with you..

 

[jacksonbrown]

Snipped for emphasis only.

1. It might have also indicated that he was intoxicated and could not respond quickly.

2. Though this is difficult, it might indicate a self inflicted wound. We have seen fairly high rates of suicide involving combat veterans today, and Corporal Corriveau had been through a lot.

3. The stabbing could have been accidental, i.e. he was holding an ice pick and stumbled, landing on it and dying instantly.

4. A serial killer who posed the body. However, I don't know of any other victims.

In the cases of 2 and 3, he might have died at the driver's residence and the driver moved the body to the Turnpike so as not be be associated with the death.

My problem with "someone he trusted," would be, who, in SE PA would that be? No family nor any known close friends from civilian life, that we know of, in the area. Possibly someone he served with that just happened to be in the area. Then again, the body was treated with some respect.

I could imagine Corporal Corriveau possibly meeting a woman and going out with her, but would he have that level of trust with someone he just met?

Correct. My brother drank. It was his choice of drug as stated in the phycologist report.


Toxicology was not done at time of autopsy. His stomach contents consisted of a green liquid substance. His fingerprints were not on file with the Corp, however they were taken at autopsy. Wouldn't his fingerprints only be found if he were arrested as a civilian? I do not agree with him killing himself.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Correct. My brother drank. It was his choice of drug as stated in the phycologist report.


Toxicology was not done at time of autopsy. His stomach contents consisted of a green liquid substance. His fingerprints were not on file with the Corp, however they were taken at autopsy. Wouldn't his fingerprints only be found if he were arrested as a civilian? I do not agree with him killing himself.

Since that time the Army, at least fingerprints people.

I am not thrilled about that possibility, but suicide is prevalent with veterans. Suicide Among Veterans: Veterans' Issues in Focus - PMC Obviously, someone would have had to move the body.

Were there any friends or even people he served with in Phila area?

Being intoxicated could account for the lack of defense.

 

[jacksonbrown]

Since that time the Army, at least fingerprints people.

I am not thrilled about that possibility, but suicide is prevalent with veterans. Suicide Among Veterans: Veterans' Issues in Focus - PMC Obviously, someone would have had to move the body.

Were there any friends or even people he served with in Phila area?

Being intoxicated could account for the lack of defense.

No family or friends in PA

 

[jacksonbrown]

There certainly were missed opportunities to have connected Robert's disappearance with the finding of his body on the very day he was missing from morning muster at the hospital.

The fact that his records contained no ID card or dog tags, or any reference to them, tends to strengthen my impression that the ones you have were left behind at the home where he was in convalescence before being transported to Philadelphia.

Upon his arrival, he would have been issued a replacement ID card, and possibly a new set of dog tags by the Marine Corps administrative unit in Philadelphia.

He would have needed to show an ID card to enter and leave the hospital on liberty, as well as for shopping at the Hospital exchange, or checking in with the Marine Corps admin unit to draw pay or allowances.

Whoever killed Robert stole the ID card he was carrying, and dog tags, if he was wearing them, because no identification was found with his body.

Robert was not the only Marine missing from the Naval Hospital in that time frame. There were actually over a dozen service men declared UA (AWOL) around that time. Most were short term absences, which were resolved within a few days by the absentee reporting back in voluntarily.

There were, however, a few cases (like Robert's) which ran beyond 30 days and resulted in administrative declarations of desertion and forwarding of service records.
 
Records of the Marine Corps admin Unit and the Naval Hospital were maintained which reported all arrivals, departures, and absences of patients and assigned personnel. Microfilm copies of those records are on file at National Archives II located at College Park, Maryland.

Those old records were thoroughly scanned, and a number of persons were located and interviewed in an attempt to learn more about general procedures followed at the time, and specifically about Robert and his disappearance.

I know all of this. I have all the records. I completely disagree with your opinion of his ID, dog tags, wallet and license.

 

[Richard]

Snipped for emphasis only.

1. It might have also indicated that he was intoxicated and could not respond quickly.

2. Though this is difficult, it might indicate a self inflicted wound. We have seen fairly high rates of suicide involving combat veterans today, and Corporal Corriveau had been through a lot.

3. The stabbing could have been accidental, i.e. he was holding an ice pick and stumbled, landing on it and dying instantly.

4. A serial killer who posed the body. However, I don't know of any other victims.

In the cases of 2 and 3, he might have died at the driver's residence and the driver moved the body to the Turnpike so as not be be associated with the death.

My problem with "someone he trusted," would be, who, in SE PA would that be? No family nor any known close friends from civilian life, that we know of, in the area. Possibly someone he served with that just happened to be in the area. Then again, the body was treated with some respect.

I could imagine Corporal Corriveau possibly meeting a woman and going out with her, but would he have that level of trust with someone he just met?

Of course, all the scenarios you mention are possibilities, but the staging and covering of the body. As well as the absence of a weapon and the absence of any identification tends to point to murder.

Whether or not the murderer was a serial killer cannot be determined by this case alone. It would require linking other killings to Robert's death.

Although there may not be a serial killer known to have been in the SE Pennsylvania area, there was at least one disturbed individual (now deceased) who lived in the area and who was known to carry a sharpened screw driver on his person at all times - certainly a strange and unique item, which matches with the suspected murder weapon.

 

[Bounceycat]

there was at least one disturbed individual (now deceased) who lived in the area and who was known to carry a sharpened screw driver on his person at all times - certainly a strange and unique item, which matches with the suspected murder weapon.

This is very interesting. Can you tell me more about this person?

 

[jacksonbrown]

This is very interesting. Can you tell me more about this person?

Maybe he should explain to you on another thread or through messages

 

[Richard]

This is very interesting. Can you tell me more about this person?

The person I was referring to was Richard Haefner, a graduate student at Penn State university at the time, majoring in geology.

He was a potential suspect in the November 1969 (still unsolved) murder of Betsy Ardsma, which occurred just over a year after Robert's death.

He was never officially named as a suspect in Robert's death, but could be considered a potential one based on a number of incidents and odd behaviors.

 

[jacksonbrown]

The person I was referring to was Richard Haefner, a graduate student at Penn State university at the time, majoring in geology.

He was a potential suspect in the November 1969 (still unsolved) murder of Betsy Ardsma, which occurred just over a year after Robert's death.

He was never officially named as a suspect in Robert's death, but could be considered a potential one based on a number of incidents and odd behaviors.

As far as the PSP were concerned, Haefner was not a person of interest in Robert's case. P.I. John and Tom also did not give credence to Haefner

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The person I was referring to was Richard Haefner, a graduate student at Penn State university at the time, majoring in geology.

He was a potential suspect in the November 1969 (still unsolved) murder of Betsy Ardsma, which occurred just over a year after Robert's death.

He was never officially named as a suspect in Robert's death, but could be considered a potential one based on a number of incidents and odd behaviors.

The victims are quite different and Haefner knew Aardsma, at least slightly.

Haefner had no ties to Phila, Downingtown, or the Marines and he was approaching finals week at Penn State. It would be mid week and he had class.

The victims were different. Corriveau was a 20 year old combat veteran. Aardsma was a 22 year old graduate student in English lit.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

From what I could tell, the weapons were different. Corriveau was stabbed with a round shafted weapon, like an ice pick. Aardsma was stabbed with some edged weapon like a folding buck knife.