GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 *Arrest*

[zwiebel]

I'm totally confused now. Police used dogs and helicopters straightaway, but don't think Holly was abducted?

Does that mean they think she went somewhere willingly, at least at first? Leaving a cup of coffee overturned and her glasses on the floor? This is really weird.

 

[FindTheWhy]

I'm totally confused now. Police used dogs and helicopters straightaway, but don't think Holly was abducted?

Does that mean they think she went somewhere willingly, at least at first? Leaving a cup of coffee overturned and her glasses on the floor? This is really weird.

It does seem strange that it is not officially an abduction. I'm not sure what criteria gets it to that classification.

She is classified as "missing-endangered".

 

[zwiebel]

And neighbours noticed the back door was open. So I presume they were in when Holly disappeared, but didn't hear anything suspicious, or see any strange vehicles?

It would be good to tighten up the timeline here - the time Holly left her home, the time she dropped her son off, estimated time she returned, time the last person saw her, time her mom called and time her mom arrived at the home. The time neighbours spotted the door open would be helpful too.

 

[zwiebel]

This is what I have got so far, input/corrections welcome!

Friday 22 November 2013

Timeline

Unknown: Boyfriend leaves home

Unknown: Holly walks 16yr old son to school bus

6.34am Holly last seen on driveway of her home

Unknown: Holly's mom calls home, no answer

Unknown: Neighbours notice Holly's back door open (unusual)

7am: Mom arrives at home and Holly's gone. Signs of struggle.

Unknown. Mom calls boyfriend at work

Unknown: Boyfriend returns to home.

Unknown: Holly is reported missing

One thing that surprises me a little, is a 16 year old boy being walked to the school bus. Was that something Holly always did, I wonder, and was Holly seen on her driveway before or after she walked him to the bus stop?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I'm a bit confused. Why would Holly's mom be driving Holly to work when Holly has her own vehicle? Did they work together, or was there a problem with Holly's vehicle?

If Holly's mom didn't go around to the home to drive Holly to work, why did she go to the house? Wouldn't she have expected Holly to have left for work? I'm just wondering here, if Holly's mom had any concerns about Holly, before she disappeared.

The overturned coffee cup and slightly open door almost give me the impression of staging you know. It would have been so easy for an abductor to pick up the cup and shut the door after him/her/them, and so not leave a clue that Holly had not left willingly.

ETA: Just to clarify, I am NOT suggesting Holly's mom did any staging. I don't think that at all.

I noticed that inconsistency with reporting, as well...

I believe in another article.... Holly's mom came over to check on her when Holly didn't answer her phone when mom called her that morning...

And that mom and Holly talked on the phone most mornings... So that is what alerted the mom to go check on Holly...

I really do not think Holly's mom takes her to work... In fact... Holly had just dropped her son off at the school bus stop that morning... So I assume she drove him in her own car...

I hope this makes sense...

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I'm a bit confused. Why would Holly's mom be driving Holly to work when Holly has her own vehicle? Did they work together, or was there a problem with Holly's vehicle?

If Holly's mom didn't go around to the home to drive Holly to work, why did she go to the house? Wouldn't she have expected Holly to have left for work? I'm just wondering here, if Holly's mom had any concerns about Holly, before she disappeared.

The overturned coffee cup and slightly open door almost give me the impression of staging you know. It would have been so easy for an abductor to pick up the cup and shut the door after him/her/them, and so not leave a clue that Holly had not left willingly.

ETA: Just to clarify, I am NOT suggesting Holly's mom did any staging. I don't think that at all.

Good point about the scene at the home possibly looking staged...:thumb:...I am going to keep that in mind...

and... Of course, I, too, am NOT suspecting Holly's mom of anything untoward, either...

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Last seen outside her home around 6.30am. Do we know who saw her?

I, too, really wish I knew the answer to the question of who saw her last, outside her home, in the driveway, at 6:30 a.m....

FWIW... I have noticed that time of last seen reported as:

6:33 a.m.
6:34a.m.
And...
(approximately) 6:30 a.m.

These EXACT times are what puzzle me... As if they were actually reported to LE at that time... Not just by a witness who was questioned later...

Just some thoughts...

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Holly and her mom live in the same mobile home park.
For many years, they drove to work together, as she and her mom worked at the same place.
Her mom recently retired, and sometimes still drives Holly to work.
I heard that her mom got worried that morning when she tried to call and Holly did not answer, as they still talked every morning, but apparently her mom did not actually intend to drive that day, so that is a clarification since the original post.
Holly and her mom are very, very close.

Thank you for the information and clarification, FindTheWhy! :tyou:

You are definitely an asset to this thread with your "local" information!

Have you considered becoming a "Verified Insider" on this thread?

It would help us out tremendously!

If you wish to do so... You can alert a mod on the top right triangle with an exclamation point in the center... Found on each post... And request to become verified...

A Mod will very nicely lead you in the right direction to get verified... If you wish!

Hope this helps! ..:seeya:

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

This is the park: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1100...ge+Rd,+Allentown,+Pennsylvania+18106&t=h&z=16

My suspicious:

From the timing, it seems someone knew her routine, and knew when she would be alone or out of the house.

Or maybe someone thought she left for work, and tried to sneak in and rob her, and she surprised them when she returned.

I hope they are checking the neighbors very carefully.

There are fields all around the park, with so many places to search. There is also a junk yard right next to the mobile home park, with a huge graveyard of junked cars.

This map helps me get a feel for the land and buildings surrounding the Mobile Home Park in which Holly lives... thank you!

I see the junk car grave yard... And the open vegetated areas...

I also noticed a body of water to the west... Maybe a retention pond?

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

prayer FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/222457674544501/

FWIW... A poster is possibly planning a Bowling Event for Holly... After Christmas...

I noted this because bowling may be another interest of Holly's ... And therefore, more connections to people and places...

JMO

 

[SurfieTX]

What about the son's father - is he still involved in their lives?

 

[shefner]

If this is not an abduction, we are left with a voluntary missing situation. And this woman does not seem like the type that would walk away from her life....she loved her son, had stability with her job, had a close relationship with her mom, and was in a 4 year relationship with her boyfriend.

Mmmmm....

 

[JWD]

What about the son's father - is he still involved in their lives?

Surfie,
Yep, that's the first question I wanted answered when I saw she has a boyfriend.

Is Holly divorced or widowed?
Has the ex ever been violent?
Does the ex pay child support?
Are his payments up-to-date?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Surfie,
Yep, that's the first question I wanted answered when I saw she has a boyfriend.

Is Holly divorced or widowed?
Has the ex ever been violent?
Does the ex pay child support?
Are his payments up-to-date?

And... Has there been a recent change in requests for child support?

:waitasec:

 

[chickenboxer8]

I think it's odd that she would walk a 16 year old to the bus stop every day?

I walked my daughter to the bus stop every morning until she graduated at sixteen... Especially after so many teens started disappearing leaving for school :/ ... Call me paranoid, over protective but when it's still dark out and she had to wait alone I call it being aware of the reality of what could happen ...

 

[SurfieTX]

And... Has there been a recent change in requests for child support?

:waitasec:

I'm not finding a whole lot regarding that. I may not be thoroughly searching, however.

http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/CP.aspx

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

I'm not finding a whole lot regarding that. I may not be thoroughly searching, however.

http://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/CP.aspx

Thanks for checking... :seeya:

 

[SurfieTX]

prayer FB page https://www.facebook.com/groups/222457674544501/

Her son is such a delightful young man. I feel so badly for him. They were obviously very, very close.

 

[Treelights]

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-c-lower-macungie-missing-holly-grim-20131129,0,3111221.story

In this article it states that she drove her son to the bus stop.

"Grim's relatives said they believe something bad happened to her on Nov. 22 between 6:33 a.m., when she drove her teenage son, Zach, to the bus stop, and 7 a.m., when her mother stopped at her mobile home to check on her."

Also, this info that Holly had a cold and her mom figured she was sleeping.

" "There was no reason for her car to be there if she was off to work," said her mother. "I just figured she was sleeping. I knew she had a cold." But her mother looked everywhere in the home and no one was there."

Read more: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...y-grim-20131129,0,3111221.story#ixzz2mLZ4Y2Y2
Follow us: @mcall on Twitter | mcall.lv on Facebook

 

[SurfieTX]

http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/mc-c-lower-macungie-missing-holly-grim-20131129,0,3111221.story

In this article it states that she drove her son to the bus stop.

"Grim's relatives said they believe something bad happened to her on Nov. 22 between 6:33 a.m., when she drove her teenage son, Zach, to the bus stop, and 7 a.m., when her mother stopped at her mobile home to check on her."

Also, this info that Holly had a cold and her mom figured she was sleeping.

" "There was no reason for her car to be there if she was off to work," said her mother. "I just figured she was sleeping. I knew she had a cold." But her mother looked everywhere in the home and no one was there."

Read more: http://www.mcall.com/news/breaking/...y-grim-20131129,0,3111221.story#ixzz2mLZ4Y2Y2
Follow us: @mcall on Twitter | mcall.lv on Facebook

I've been wondering about this - what made mom immediately concerned enough to want to physically check on her? Especially if she knew she was sick, probably sleeping and saw her car there. Was mom just wanting to see if she needed some momma-love/medicine/glass of water or something?