GUILTY PA - Holly Grim, 41, Wescosville, 22 Nov 2013 #1 *Arrest*

[Eileen730]

Could the last person to see her have been the school bus driver?

Or her son!

 

[FindTheWhy]

I know; I'm drawn to her eyes as well. I know it's really hard on some in this area...and many don't even have food. I dk what else could have happened, but I did find it just a tad "suspicious" that her mother said she had to check on her. Why did she feel this way; because no time had lapsed yet...etc. This is not an attack; it's a question as to timeline etc....and why someone "her mother" felt the NEED to check on her.

Why?

Holly and her mother are VERY close. They talked every morning. They used to drive to work together before her mother retired. They live within walking distance of each other. Her mother is totally the type of person who would just stroll over if Holly did not answer the phone, even if to see if she overslept or was not feeling well.

 

[FindTheWhy]

Great! These photos really show her in a much more real light; she doesn't look as frail as I thought she would be.

Who is the guy and they have matching shirts on; and he is obviously into cars. Skull Cross Bones, Fairing, the Fairing is odd.

Is this the guy she was involved with? Why isn't he out looking for her? I mean it's so much like Arndt's case. We need to draw him out.

That is her boyfriend.

As I understand it, he has been out looking for her and handing out flyers, etc.

 

[FindTheWhy]

1. Turf.
2. Lack of knowledge about SAR and available SAR resources.
3. Lack of knowledge about forensic evidence.
4. Rush to look like they are doing "something" coupled with 2 and 3.

Once you get outside of a major city in PA, some of the police departments are pretty much podunk, yet have a high regard of themselves. There are a few good ones that are very professional. Some squabble between themselves about the territorial "line" much as the FD's do. What has me scratching my head is that the major SAR teams are on the PA State Police call list...and so am I. State Parks calls SAR in rather quickly...LE and FD/EMS, not so much.

Thanks for your valuable and educational input!

The area where Holly lives is under State Police jurisdiction, so they are handling this case. There is no other local police in that particular area. I think that helps in this case because they are able to use more resources and expand the investigation beyond a local territory.

They have been doing quite a bit of searching several times, including with dogs and helicopters.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Could the last person to see her have been the school bus driver?

Good thought, Ravynne!

but... As I understand it... Holly drove her son to the bus stop (it wasn't in front of their house)... And then she drove back to the house...

someone saw her on her driveway... And that was the last sighting...

JMO

 

[Elainera]

New poster.

http://avalleyandbeyond.weebly.com/missing-person.html

Next local search is scheduled for Saturday.

They also have contacted psychics, and it's getting a bit chaotic ... which is moo.

On the new Search for Holly group page, they have recommended WS. Hopefully some will join us here!

 

[Elainera]

Good thought, Ravynne!

but... As I understand it... Holly drove her son to the bus stop (it wasn't in front of their house)... And then she drove back to the house...

someone saw her on her driveway... And that was the last sighting...

JMO

On fb someone said it was a neighbor, and they talked to Holly for a couple of minutes.

 

[Treelights]

On fb someone said it was a neighbor, and they talked to Holly for a couple of minutes.

Is it possible that Holly talked to the neighbor before/and or after she took her son to the bus?
The new poster for Holly that you posted in your previous post mentions
that Holly was last seen taking her son to the bus around 6:30am.
Did the neighbor see her after she got back home too?
Who would be the last person to see her then? It couldn't have been the neighbor,
if Holly was with her son. The son or bus driver or school kids perhaps would have seen Holly last perhaps?

IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

Good thought, Ravynne!

but... As I understand it... Holly drove her son to the bus stop (it wasn't in front of their house)... And then she drove back to the house...

someone saw her on her driveway... And that was the last sighting...

JMO

So then Holly was last sighted on her driveway, but she wasn't talked to at that particular time? And she was sighted after she got home from the bus stop, is what I think you are saying?
Sorry, I am a bit confused.
IMOO.

 

[zwiebel]

I've definitely seen in media reports the last sighting of Holly was on her driveway at 6.33 or 6.34am. That has to be after she took son to school as the bus comes at 6.36am.

I also think we had confirmation from a local early on that Holly walked him there, and did not drive. I'll have to check that though.

 

[zwiebel]

I notice the new poster says Holly may be wearing her glasses. Is the thinking now that the glasses mom found on the floor were not her only pair, and she may have taken a spare pair with her?

 

[zwiebel]

There are reports of a local burglary of a senior's home where the burglar went in the front door and exited through the back. I think this is fairly common in burglaries.

I do not think Holly disturbed a burglar, but I'm wondering if the person who took her has a record for burglary, so just automatically did what they usually do when breaking into a home - went in the front door and out the back?

 

[Elainera]

I notice the new poster says Holly may be wearing her glasses. Is the thinking now that the glasses mom found on the floor were not her only pair, and she may have taken a spare pair with her?

Good point Zwiebel! Either one of the sources is wrong, or she has more than one pair (one for reading, one regular?). But wouldn't mom know whether a pair of glasses were missing or not? Given that they are extremely close?

 

[zwiebel]

Yes, I think she would. But Holly's house has been sealed by LE now, so she may not be able to get in and check what's missing. I think that's why we don't have a full, definite clothing description too.

 

[cluciano63]

A burglar taking a person has to be pretty rare. If they intend to kill the person, why take them? Why not just do it there? And if not...what on earth do they do with an adult on their hands?

 

[Treelights]

Yes, I think she would. But Holly's house has been sealed by LE now, so she may not be able to get in and check what's missing. I think that's why we don't have a full, definite clothing description too.

Where is her son living/staying? With his grandmother?
IMOO.

 

[Elainera]

Where is her son living/staying? With his grandmother?
IMOO.

Yes, that is said on fb.

 

[zwiebel]

According to my mental checklist so far - which could well be totally wrong - the person who disappeared Holly is likely to have known;

Where she lived (in a mobile park that's difficult for strangers to find their way around)
Who lived in the home
That she worked, and what time she left for work
That she had a school-age son, and what time he left for school
That Holly walked son to the bus stop in the mornings
She was in a relationship, and that boyfriend only stayed over sometimes
That boyfriend worked, and what time boyfriend left for work
Enough about the neighbour's habits to know he/she/they could abduct Holly without being seen
I also have a feeling the person will have a criminal record of some sort.

As Red Maples is a self-contained community that a person wouldn't pass through to get somewhere else, I'm just thinking this has got to be someone who does or did live in Red Maples, or is a really regular visitor. And is also a member of Holly and her boyfriend's close social circle. So maybe look for links to Red Maples and bowling, car-racing, or maybe work?

If Holly's loved ones suspect they know who the person is, that could provide some good clues to where she might or might not be, to a search and rescue professional. Especially if anyone knows where the person they suspect lives, and the first time they were seen that day, after Holly's disappearance. That could give an indication of how long it took them to take Holly wherever they did. And how far away that was. If they had to be at work that day, that could provide a definite time window for how long they had to hide her.

 

[zwiebel]

What are the most common causes of disappearances of adult women?

 

[zwiebel]

The top answer is voluntary missing, and they return/ are found quickly, but I haven't found figures for those who don't return or are found deceased.

I'm not trying to point a sneaky finger at Holly's boyfriend here - I know partner/spousal violence would come high on any list, and it is always the elephant in the room, but I am trying to figure out the chances of a random predator.

I think it's a really, really tiny chance when a random predator attacks any woman. With the tight timeline and particular circumstances here, the chances must be miniscule. This has just got to be someone who knows Holly, and therefore it's likely Holly's friends/family know that person too, but don't realize.

I hope everyone who cares for Holly has taken the unusual police plea for any info- 'even rumors' - to heart, and have called in absolutely anything they know. I'm not saying it's happened in this case, but sometimes people miss out vital info because they want to 'protect' a missing loved one. But the best way to protect a missing person is always to get them home, and tell LE everything you can think of, to help bring that about.

Somewhere locally, I think, there may be someone who noticed something not right about a person's behaviour the day Holly vanished. Maybe their time is unaccounted for, or they were not where they were supposed to be, or they changed clothes, cleaned their vehicle or were just behaving oddly that day. Maybe still are behaving oddly, when it comes to talk of Holly? If anyone out there has any suspicions, please, please call them in. It is the right thing to do. It looks like someone's disappeared a loving mom here, and could do it to someone else if they're not caught.