PA - Kenzie Houk, 26, pregnant, murdered, Wampum, 20 Feb 2009

[Trino]

Rural or urban, you have to know the influences that are affecting your child and their life. Lumping everyone together to try and explain away how or why these children have guns ignores the causes of why they came to kill with those guns. Thirty years ago, guns -- and often loaded guns -- used to be left in unlocked trucks in just about every rural community across America. Not anymore and there are reasons why.

Thirty years ago, rural or urban, I bet most kids did not come home to empty houses or got themselves off to school in the morning. Society has changed.

Guess I don't see anything wrong with an 11 year old getting himself off to school in the morning. I'm guessing he was in 6th grade? What's he need to do? Wash, get dressed, brush his teeth? Maybe eat breakfast - kids now usually get breakfast at school - then walk out the door to the bus.

Here we go again... http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/21/boy.homicide/index.html

"Under Pennsylvania law, anyone over the age of 10 accused of murder or homicide is charged as an adult. If convicted, the boy faces a maximum sentence of life in prison..."

 

[DBinMA]

I'm not going to argue over the right to own a gun but if you do have them in a house with 3 kids and one on the way it should be locked up.

 

[Bobbisangel]

The mom may have gotten up with the kids every morning but that one for all we know. Maybe she was really tired because she didn't sleep well the night before...big and pregnant...or maybe she wasn't feeling well. We don't know. It has nothing to do with wanting or loving your children. It sure is easy to judge others when all we know is the little dab we read in the news.

The jail warden is going to see if this boy can't be kept in dentention as he says that a jail with 300 guys in it is no place for a 11 year old. This is from a news article on Comcast this afternoon.

 

[chiperoni]

Good Lord. No child should have free access to a gun. I have no problems with SUPERVISING a child while shooting a gun in a contest or something, but free access to the gun is unacceptable because children do not have the capability of judging the consequences of their actions.

He still needs to be tried for a double homicide.

I so agree with you. Young children do not have the maturity to have free access to guns. When there are minor children in the household guns need to be monitored and secured by adults. The quick silent execution was an easy way for this very disturbed child to cause instant death (if he actually did). We could post a lot of links supporting gun control from biased organazations because it is such an emotional issue. It is ok for adults to have accessiblity to a gun, but there is always the danger of having it taken away or stolen. If an adult wants to carry or have an accessible gun that is their decision. Common sense tells us in this modern day and age children should not have access to unsecured guns.

 

[Openmind]

quote=Trino;3355443]Guess I don't see anything wrong with an 11 year old getting himself off to school in the morning. I'm guessing he was in 6th grade? What's he need to do? Wash, get dressed, brush his teeth? Maybe eat breakfast - kids now usually get breakfast at school - then walk out the door to the bus.

Here we go again... http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/02/21/boy.homicide/index.html

"Under Pennsylvania law, anyone over the age of 10 accused of murder or homicide is charged as an adult. If convicted, the boy faces a maximum sentence of life in prison..."

This isn't just about the kid getting himself off the school. In the bigger picture, that might not matter one tinker darn. The reasons for this murder are much bigger than a single issue.

I do wonder if it is that easy to get kids ready for the day, why can't a parent/parents give up the thirty minutes it takes to do so? Schools started providing breakfast because parents were sending their kids to school hungry. In the beginning, the breakfast program was designed only for the economically disadvantaged.

My point was thirty years ago children had more adult supervision -- more interplay with adults. Country kids had guns in their homes, but they were seldom left to handle them without some adult acknowledgment. Sure some kids can manage getting themselves off to school and can take care of themselves after school. I still think some adult should get a child off to school and be there when they return. It is a part of parenting that shows you are willing to get up, talk with them, make sure they have breakfast, lunch money, and a word of encouragement before they go to school. And coming home, kids, especially older children, need someone to see how their day went. And I do know how hectic it is to get kids out the door in the morning and come home and try to manage all the things a household requires in the very slim hours left after work.

 

[wildTrose]

30 years ago we didnt have the video games that are so realistic and give children the ability to kill over and over again....even if it is a game...
think back to when you were a kid...did you see much voilence or sex on tv?
Im 45 and I know i didnt...women wore clothing under their bras for the bra commercials...tampon commercials were unheard of... and for scary movies....it was left to your imagination even if you knew the person was going to die you didnt actually see it
now kids see it all at an early age....

 

[Bobbisangel]

I think all guns in a home should be kept locked and the children not know where the key to the gun cab is kept. I don't see anything wrong with kids learning to shoot with a parent who is teaching them or to go hunting with a parent even if the child is young. But young kids shouldn't be allowed to keep their gun in their room. Most kids are probably trustworthy when it comes to their gun but what about the neighbor kid that might be curious especially if he doesn't have a gun at home. Or the kids like these 9 and 11 yr olds who decide to eliminate a parent or so. It's just better all around for the guns to be locked up and not take a chance on someone getting hurt or killed accidentally or on purpose.

 

[JaneInOz]

You are missing my point and yes I read the reports, this is a local story for me.

Seems like you are missing my point and everyone elses . When you say local does that mean you are trying to say you have more insight of this family because you know them ???

Look at these comments which I completely concur with

How do you know this baby wasnt wanted? and there isnt anything wrong with an 11 year old getting himself ready for school....so what she was living with her boyfriend they were engaged! cause ive lived with mine for 5 years now...and have no plans of getting married...ive been divorced 21 years and wont get married again
the other father why would he be there? he might be deceased or they are divorced
why are you being so hard on this family? if you want to be upset about them then be upset they had guns in the house..not that she was pregnant or the kids got themselves ready for school...

OMG! I can not believe....shaking head....

If an 11 year old is not capable of getting himself and a 7 year old sibling up and dressed and off to school to give his about to pop any minute step mother a break then there's something wrong with him!

GODD GREIF! He was 11, not 5 or 6!

How can you possibly say this couple didn't want or didn't care for their children, if you bother to actually read the links provided you would never say such a horrible thing about a MURDER VICTIM and her unborn murdered baby.

To Drew : Why are you trying to blame the woman ? And the way you say "living with her boyfriend" (whcih happens to be her fiance btw) is almost like you think they were committing the biggest crime in the world.

Rather than trying to put the blame at the feet of the 8 month pregnant mother for sleeping and being shot point blank in the head with a pillow to silence the noise by an 11 year old Why dont you put the blame fair and square where it belongs ? ON THE GUN and the Father than didn't have it locked up and that had bought it for his child

If there was no gun this wouldn't have happened .

People that live in suburban and city areas have little idea how rural people live. It's a different world. Rifles and sport shooting are about as necessary as owning a car (truck), and, yes, most kids start early.

Hand guns/concealed weapons are more the weapon of choice for urban areas where they can be used for self-defense, and maybe this is where many urbanites get the message that guns and violence against others are related.

Shooting and killing in urban areas is much more prevelant than in rural America. To a rural owner it's more about hunting and sport. Occasionally, something horrible happens, but most rural gun owners are responsbile individuals. Maybe you don't agree and this is not to say I would purchase one of these rifles, but if you understand rural lifestyle (and the NRA), you can get a better idea why someone would use the website you posted.

To Trino : Im not in urban America ! Im in Australia if you scroll back up you will see my posts regarding our Gun control here.

But as I said its a mute point, Im on an American forum with many people who own guns. Its an impossible argument to win.

 

[hannahsnana]

I hate guns, never allowed my son to have a play one. The one and only time I ever touched a gun, I was probably about ten years old and had gone out in the country with my dad and brothers, and my dad had me shoot some tin cans. It almost knocked me down. I wish that noone in this country were allowed to have guns. I do, though, have to take exception that if they hadn't owned a gun, this crime wouldn't have happened. Apparently, this boy has a pathology that led him to kill. Who's to say he wouldn't have stabbed her to death?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

This is rural PA people, you would be hard pressed to find a home WITHOUT a gun. You can't take these people's guns from them.

Who exactly was taking care of these children? An 11 year old getting himself and a 7 year old ready for school?? The mother pregnant AGAIN? Living with the boyfriend? Where is the other father?
I'm sick of people having children they don't want and can't take care of. Not saying she deserved this, but this family needs to take responsibility for what happened.

What am I missing here?

Where does it say that these children weren't being cared for on a daily basis?

I have read several articles now that state she was a very attentive mother.

Are you talking about the boy getting ready for school and the 7 year old? I would think that would be because after he shot this mother with a shotgun, to the head, he tried to pretend that everything was normal.

Imo, it wasn't what was done everyday by this kid but the day that he ended this mother's life and her unborn baby and it was before she ever had a chance to get up to get the children off to school.

Sounds like he sure put thought into trying to cover up his deeds.

imo

 

[jnTexas]

this is ridiculous!! We live in Texas. My 12 yr old daughter and my 10 yr old son both have guns for hog and deer hunting. My son is also saving money to buy a bow for hunting. my husband takes them to the shooting range. We all go as a family to the deer lease for hunting. This is something our family does together. We also have a lot of guns in our gun cabinet, and also two hand guns in the night stand. We do not live in a bad crime area. If someone comes into our house and they are not welcome they will not be walking out.
I do not believe the fact that this child had a gun and went hunting had anything to do with the rage he had against his Dad's girlfriend (shes not a stepmom she's not married to him). I do believe there is a lot of underlying problems that have not been made public. I'm in no way giving this child a pass for murdering this woman and his half brother. I do think there is a good possiblity this child was jealous of the new baby being a boy, and I'm sure there are some problems with the mother not being in the picture. i do think we will hear more to the story in the future.

I do feel sad that this child did not get the needed help to keep him from boiling over to this point.

Oh and also my 10 yr old son and my 6 yr old daughter can get dressed and ready for school on their own. I wake them up they get dressed I take them to school. they eat at school because they choose to. I'm not seeing an 11 yr old having to get the girlfriend's 7 yr old dressed. I would think she could do it on her own.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Seems like you are missing my point and everyone elses . When you say local does that mean you are trying to say you have more insight of this family because you know them ???

Look at these comments which I completely concur with





To Drew : Why are you trying to blame the woman ? And the way you say "living with her boyfriend" (which happens to be her fiance btw) is almost like you think they were committing the biggest crime in the world.

Rather than trying to put the blame at the feet of the 8 month pregnant mother for sleeping and being shot point blank in the head with a pillow to silence the noise by an 11 year old Why don't you put the blame fair and square where it belongs ? ON THE GUN and the Father than didn't have it locked up and that had bought it for his child

If there was no gun this wouldn't have happened .



To Trino : Im not in urban America ! Im in Australia if you scroll back up you will see my posts regarding our Gun control here.

But as I said its a mute point, Im on an American forum with many people who own guns. Its an impossible argument to win.

I place the blame solely on the one that loaded, aimed, pulled the trigger and fired into the back of the head of an unsuspecting woman as she lay sleeping.

This boy could easily have stabbed her to death with a butcher knife he found in the kitchen. She was almost ready to give birth and she would have been no match for him, with him having the only leathal weapon.

imoo

 

[Openmind]

What am I missing here?

Where does it say that these children weren't being cared for on a daily basis?

I have read several articles now that state she was a very attentive mother.

Are you talking about the boy getting ready for school and the 7 year old? I would think that would be because after he shot this mother with a shotgun, to the head, he tried to pretend that everything was normal.

Imo, it wasn't what was done everyday by this kid but the day that he ended this mother's life and her unborn baby and it was before she ever had a chance to get up to get the children off to school.

Sounds like he sure put thought into trying to cover up his deeds.

imo

I agree with this. Who knows what the daily routine for this home really was? His anger was very focused at this woman. I am glad he didn't physically harm the little girls.

 

[Kat]

One thing I have seen in the last decade is a changed view our children. Many parents see their children as peers, and there is an assumption that because I, the adult, am happy with my new life and all the collective changes then my child is right there with me adjusting and adapting along with me. I see children less protected, valued for their innocence, or given the time to grow and mature. Too many parents want their children be their best friend, and then want those children to understand when they get a new best friend. Everyone says children are resilient but that does not mean they do not need stability, consistency, and protection from behaviors and information inappropriate to their age. Children do not have the life experiences to judge many of the events around them to understand their true longterm impact on their lives. There are more remarriages, frequent changing relationships, blended families, and a society that inundates our children with information about violence, sex, and self serving behaviors. We are going to have more and more insecure and desensitized children that will make impulsive decisions that they don't even understand.

I just had to bump that post again Openmind. It's beautiful and eloquent and speaks to how we have failed out children of today. I think it may have started back in the 70's "me generation" and has escalated forward with each generation.

As for this boy, I'm not going to say he's a sociopath. I don't know what his behaviors have been with the exception of this murder.

I do find it hard to imagine that an 11 yr old has the cognitive and emotional maturity to fully understand the continuing consequences of his actions.

What I mean by that is as a child, he more than likely does not have a full concept of death and that it is forever. He murdered his Father's GF, and he also murdered his own half brother. He will live with those consequences for the rest of his natural life. If he is not a sociopath then eventually he will have a full awareness of what he as done.. the murder of two people and I can only imagine that will be a crushing realization for him and he will carry that until his last breath.

Such a sad situation. Not only for the GF and unborn son. But also for the Father, the sisters who also lost a mother and unborn brother. One moment of childhood rage resulted in murder and now at the age of 11, this child's life is over too. I can't imagine that he won't be warehoused for the rest of his life. Sad all the way around.

 

[JaneInOz]

I hate guns, never allowed my son to have a play one. The one and only time I ever touched a gun, I was probably about ten years old and had gone out in the country with my dad and brothers, and my dad had me shoot some tin cans. It almost knocked me down. I wish that noone in this country were allowed to have guns. I do, though, have to take exception that if they hadn't owned a gun, this crime wouldn't have happened. Apparently, this boy has a pathology that led him to kill. Who's to say he wouldn't have stabbed her to death?

I think a 11 year old could have been fought off , at least she would have stood some sort of a fighting chance than a Bullet to the HEAD

this is ridiculous!! We live in Texas. My 12 yr old daughter and my 10 yr old son both have guns for hog and deer hunting. My son is also saving money to buy a bow for hunting. my husband takes them to the shooting range. We all go as a family to the deer lease for hunting. This is something our family does together. We also have a lot of guns in our gun cabinet, and also two hand guns in the night stand. We do not live in a bad crime area. If someone comes into our house and they are not welcome they will not be walking out.
I do not believe the fact that this child had a gun and went hunting had anything to do with the rage he had against his Dad's girlfriend (shes not a stepmom she's not married to him). I do believe there is a lot of underlying problems that have not been made public. I'm in no way giving this child a pass for murdering this woman and his half brother. I do think there is a good possiblity this child was jealous of the new baby being a boy, and I'm sure there are some problems with the mother not being in the picture. i do think we will hear more to the story in the future.

I do feel sad that this child did not get the needed help to keep him from boiling over to this point.

Oh and also my 10 yr old son and my 6 yr old daughter can get dressed and ready for school on their own. I wake them up they get dressed I take them to school. they eat at school because they choose to. I'm not seeing an 11 yr old having to get the girlfriend's 7 yr old dressed. I would think she could do it on her own.

Why are your guns not locked up ? anyone could grab the gun from the night stand ?

I don't find anyone having guns lying about to be responsible same as matches.

I am shocked to hear people actually say anyone walking into your house thats not welcome isnt walking back out.

I don't understand this way of thinking.

If this person was unarmed and was going to steal your purse you would shoot them ?

What am I missing here?

Where does it say that these children weren't being cared for on a daily basis?

I have read several articles now that state she was a very attentive mother.

Are you talking about the boy getting ready for school and the 7 year old? I would think that would be because after he shot this mother with a shotgun, to the head, he tried to pretend that everything was normal.

Imo, it wasn't what was done everyday by this kid but the day that he ended this mother's life and her unborn baby and it was before she ever had a chance to get up to get the children off to school.

Sounds like he sure put thought into trying to cover up his deeds.

imo

We agree on something *phew*

 

[passionflower]

From what I am listening here, is he killed her BEFORE her alarm went off.
He got up early and did this.........planned..........

 

[Trino]

I think the boy understood what he was doing. He hid the gun under his bed. He told LE that there was a black truck in the drive, throwing off LE for several hours. He told another person (can't recall) that he wanted to kill his to-be step-mother. I cannot help but wonder if he was aware of what happened to the AZ boy, since it was all over the news for several weeks.

 

[Gray]

I have no problem with anyone owning guns, but they need to be secured out of safety for ANYONE who may misuse them, purposefully or accidentally. He definitely needs to be punished for what he did because as someone else stated, if it wasn't a gun it could have been a butcher knife from the kitchen... but how often do we hear about unsecured guns causing accidental deaths? I don't think guns are the problem... irresponsible people are.

And yes, this young man knew 100% what he was doing. He knew that the best way to kill her is to shoot her in the head. He knew to shoot her while she was sleeping so there was no struggle. He knew to throw investigators off and to go to school like normal, pretending that he had no idea what happened. That is premeditated murder, plain and simple. He's shot things with that gun before... he knew the damage it would do and he planned that damage to his stepmother and her unborn baby. He needs to be prosecuted because the severity of the crime is extreme and he planned it with the same planning that a teenager or an adult would do.

 

[Linda7NJ]

sniped.

I do find it hard to imagine that an 11 yr old has the cognitive and emotional maturity to fully understand the continuing consequences of his actions.


.

I find it hard to believe any murderer has this ability

 

[concernedperson]

From everything I have read this boy was acting out his sociopathy at an early age. Usually they don't start murdering people until their teens but are experimenting with animals at 11.