PA - Lindsay Cassidy, 23, & Kolby O'Brien, 3, found strangled, Chester, 28 March 2008

[Blink34]

no, but they have to be paid for -may be an issue. However, I havent seen ANY coverage or updates on this case at all yet?

 

[SewingDeb]

Mystery in Chester: Mother laments death of daughter, grandson

A grieving mother feared for her daughter’s safety when she moved into her own apartment in a seedy neighborhood in Chester’s West End.

“We were worried about her moving in to the area,” said Lindsay Cassidy’s mother, Karen Saunders, on Tuesday afternoon, shortly after making funeral arrangements for her daughter and grandson, Kolby O’Brien.

“The irony is that it wasn’t the area that did this to her,” Saunders said.

 

[Clearly Confused]

no, but they have to be paid for -may be an issue. However, I havent seen ANY coverage or updates on this case at all yet?

There hasn't been any local coverage either. I suppose there is nothing to report until the test come back.

 

[SewingDeb]

For those who wondered why her mother didn't go in person to check on her, this is from the link I posted directly above this post:

“I called her on her cell phone, but didn’t get an answer,” Saunders said. “I went down there with my eldest son and we waited for police. They broke the door down.”

 

[chains]

here is my thoery of what happen landlord wanted his rent early and the mother had a fight while everyone is gone he went into there apartment put stuff in there food or drinks left the apartment

 

[KatK]

For those who wondered why her mother didn't go in person to check on her, this is from the link I posted directly above this post:

“I called her on her cell phone, but didn’t get an answer,” Saunders said. “I went down there with my eldest son and we waited for police. They broke the door down.”

:waitasec: There isn't a link? Can you find it and post it please? I'll look on the page before this in case it might be there, but there is not link on any of your posts on this page. :blowkiss:

 

[crypto6]

:waitasec: There isn't a link? Can you find it and post it please? I'll look on the page before this in case it might be there, but there is not link on any of your posts on this page. :blowkiss:

Kat: here it is.


LINK

Maybe they tried the door with no result and waited for the cops. Wonder if anyone tried the super before smashing the door (did I miss something)??? Usually LE won't crash a place like this except as a last resort.

C6

 

[crypto6]

here is my thoery of what happen landlord wanted his rent early and the mother had a fight while everyone is gone he went into there apartment put stuff in there food or drinks left the apartment

Out the window??

 

[KatK]

It would take an especially cold heart, to sit and watch to be certain a poison was imbibed by all... If they were poisoned, I'm going to say probably the poisoner wasn't anywhere around when they consumed the poison. (Just because usually poisoners are sneaky, they don't want their hands dirtied with the actual deed. Sometimes they are brazen enough to tend to their victims, and make sure they die that way, but often they get the poison to their victim, and are away by the time it takes effect.) If it wasn't poisoning, than the killer escaped through the window. But that window might be a red herring too.

 

[crypto6]

It would take an especially cold heart, to sit and watch to be certain a poison was imbibed by all... If they were poisoned, I'm going to say probably the poisoner wasn't anywhere around when they consumed the poison. (Just because usually poisoners are sneaky, they don't want their hands dirtied with the actual deed. Sometimes they are brazen enough to tend to their victims, and make sure they die that way, but often they get the poison to their victim, and are away by the time it takes effect.) If it wasn't poisoning, than the killer escaped through the window. But that window might be a red herring too.

How would the killer get it in everybody's food/drink and make sure they consumed it so the adults all became incapacitated together (nobody called 911) unless the perp were there to orchestrate. I'm beginning to lean toward murder-suicide by high-dose opiates (heroin, morphine), or same-mechanism murder by a fellow "partier" who left out the window.

C6

 

[KatK]

If they know the people at all, know what everyone will likely consume. Maybe they all loved sweet tea with supper? Something like that. ETA: Or they knew the hostess habitually served tea (or whatever she habitually served) with supper? It isn't as likely that someone poisoned the food and drink of everyone, but I don't see how they'd get that mother and child to die so peacefully in any other way. They did take the sippy cup to analyze... Do you see where my mind is wandering with this? It had to be something quiet, and something that could be done to the child too. Something that was a delayed reaction, that would take them as they slept. That says poison to me, if not carbon monoxide.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

here is my theory of what happen landlord wanted his rent early and the mother had a fight while everyone is gone he went into there apartment put stuff in there food or drinks left the apartment

Welcome to WS, Chains! You know, you might be onto something there. The landlord would be the only one to have access to the apartment while everyone was gone. Not sure he would do this over the rent, but suppose he had been rebuffed by the mother when he made a pass at her or he could have allowed someone else into the apartment who wanted to do them bodily harm. He could have put poison in different things or coated their utensils/glasses/dishes maybe.

Interesting theory. Makes as much sense as anything else I have seen here. Great first post!

 

[chains]

i ran a whole bunch of angles through my head the last couple of days was there any cameras where the open window was? cuzz it doesnt look like a far drop from a pic i saw the other day

 

[chains]

Welcome to WS, Chains! You know, you might be onto something there. The landlord would be the only one to have access to the apartment while everyone was gone. Not sure he would do this over the rent, but suppose he had been rebuffed by the mother when he made a pass at her or he could have allowed someone else into the apartment who wanted to do them bodily harm. He could have put poison in different things or coated their utensils/glasses/dishes maybe.

Interesting theory. Makes as much sense as anything else I have seen here. Great first post!

i was thinking of that he was trying to get with her and she denied the offer and then got mad and poison them

 

[KatK]

Well, but he's the landlord. He has a legitimate reason to be seen going to, and from the place. He wouldn't need to sneak out the window. If the landlord did it, he left via the front door, brazenly as though he owned the place. It would be more suspicious, to not be seen leaving the place, as a person who has legitmate reason to go there. If he was setting up his alibi "I went to make sure that leak was fixed." then he'd have no problem being seen coming *and* going. He wouldn't be foolish (Or maybe he would?!) enough to raise suspicions by acting in any way other than as person with a legitimate reason to be there. ETA: And, the landlord could have cracked that window open, on purpose, to make his own red herring! He didn't exit from it, but he wanted Police to think "the killer" (someone other than him) did! ETA2: Even if it wasn't the landlord, maybe the killer also did this, again, as a red herring. Or, did someone open the window in the initial rush of finding the bodies, and it hasn't been figured out that this happened yet?

 

[jat]

I am not one to speculate much in cases such as this where the truth will come out with the toxicology report, but has anyone considered that they were injected with something?

 

[KatK]

They died in their sleep, there was no struggle. The only way I can think for them to all die in their sleep other than gas/carbon monoxide poisoning, is if they all ingested poison at about the same time, say supper time.

 

[chains]

how wide the window was crack wouldnt the gas n carbon monoxide escape and did they say how long they were dead for?

 

[crypto6]

If they know the people at all, know what everyone will likely consume. Maybe they all loved sweet tea with supper? Something like that. ETA: Or they knew the hostess habitually served tea (or whatever she habitually served) with supper? It isn't as likely that someone poisoned the food and drink of everyone, but I don't see how they'd get that mother and child to die so peacefully in any other way. They did take the sippy cup to analyze... Do you see where my mind is wandering with this? It had to be something quiet, and something that could be done to the child too. Something that was a delayed reaction, that would take them as they slept. That says poison to me, if not carbon monoxide.

And presumably something which wouldn't produce a groteque death, since we didn't get any hint of this when the states of the bodies were described.
That lets out strychnine, and cyanide would have to be given at in large oral doses at close to the same time in all adults to keep one of them from calling 911 for the others, or given in gas form. With your thinking of peaceful, simultaneous death poisoning, CO and natural gas comes back to mind. CO which had the source run out or removed so the gas would clear, or some form of uncombusted natural gas (don't know whether the place had any gas appliances of any sort) come to mind as the most likely agents. Put that in with chains idea of the vengeful super and you can have the guy running either gas into the apartment through a hose, letting himslelf in to remove the hose and tidy up, chain the door, and leave through the window. Another possibility is to bring them all some beverage containing high doses of street drugs, feeding the toddler last and taking the evidence, leaving a sippy cup of normal juice and exit out the window.

I even had a flashback thought of the narcotic gas the Russians used several years ago in a large hostage situation; it wasn't such a great drug for the hostages, since a lot of them died, but it seemed to get to everybody and incapacitate them before the hostage-takers could act. Link

If the ME can't definitively make the diagnosis on tox screens and blood work, he/she may have to rely on brain section examinations, which take a couple of weeks to pickle the brain, then several more to analyze slides and stained sections. We may be waiting a while.

C6

 

[crypto6]

I am not one to speculate much in cases such as this where the truth will come out with the toxicology report, but has anyone considered that they were injected with something?

I'd thought about that too but since the initial investigation made such a big deal of how neat the place was, I'm trying to think of how all 3 adults were injected without a struggle or some form of bloody mess in either the murder-suicide or straight murder scenario.

I'm just the opposite on speculation: I like to see if we can tease out some detail which enables us to put together a scenario fitting all the facts before the tox comes back.

C6