PA - Michael, 50, & Cathryn Borden, 50, shot to death, 13 Nov 2005

[Czarthethird]

Kara Beth's Xanga web site is cached and can be retrieved at:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:wYMAegfE8WoJ:www.xanga.com/groups/rnp.aspx%3Fd%3Dp%26user%3DDreamer_on_her_toes%26id%

 

[richandfamous]

Seems the young man may have had a few red flags before this all happened!!!

From the Lancaster Online message board:

taxpayer17578
11-16-2005

"I don't understand why nobody has bothered to speak up about something that some of us local people know -- so I will. David "allegedly" kidnapped another girl he was seeing over the summer. He "allegedly" stole his parents' car, guns, $10K, and took her to the mountains. Her parents "allegedly" didn't press charges because they went to the same church. It was after this that he supposedly had his rededication to Christ. The police know this, interviewed the girl this week, yet have not released this information to the media. I, in some ways, can understand why the girl and her parents didn't press charges -- she was traumatized and they were glad she was ok and maybe David was a minor then, but WHY his parents didn't get him help THEN is beyond me and shows a severe lack of parenting. And, the online pics David posted on his myspace account of himself at the hunting cabin drinking beer with an adult (dad?) present shows the other side of someone people keep trying to paint as an innocent kid, and also paint a truer picture of his home life. It's sad when parents don't care enough to hold their children accountable for their actions. It's a tragedy."

 

[Hbgchick]

Did they establish that it was them at the subway? The said a girl that looked like Kara and had her hair in a ponytail, which was correct, but they described the guy as having short hair, less than an inch long and made some assume he cut it, but his hair is still long?

That was an incorrect report. They were never in the Subway.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I can't get to the link

 

[cherylereed]

Seems the young man may have had a few red flags before this all happened!!!

From the Lancaster Online message board:

taxpayer17578
11-16-2005

"I don't understand why nobody has bothered to speak up about something that some of us local people know -- so I will. David "allegedly" kidnapped another girl he was seeing over the summer. He "allegedly" stole his parents' car, guns, $10K, and took her to the mountains. Her parents "allegedly" didn't press charges because they went to the same church. It was after this that he supposedly had his rededication to Christ. The police know this, interviewed the girl this week, yet have not released this information to the media. I, in some ways, can understand why the girl and her parents didn't press charges -- she was traumatized and they were glad she was ok and maybe David was a minor then, but WHY his parents didn't get him help THEN is beyond me and shows a severe lack of parenting. And, the online pics David posted on his myspace account of himself at the hunting cabin drinking beer with an adult (dad?) present shows the other side of someone people keep trying to paint as an innocent kid, and also paint a truer picture of his home life. It's sad when parents don't care enough to hold their children accountable for their actions. It's a tragedy."

Perhaps THIS is why The Bordens did not want Kara to date David!!!

 

[Mr. E]

My daughter is 14 and it would be a cold day in hell before she would ever be allowed to date an 18yo!

 

[joanofarc]

I don't know why I am thinking this but what if Kara's mom was tied up in a chair....being held at gunpoint while the father was arguing with David....nothing else makes sense as to why she would be in another room sitting in a chair...unless Kara was in the room with her talking and David was in another area fighting with the dad....then David shoots the father and quickly runs in and shoots the mother (the sound of a gunshot though would make you get up out of your chair, you would think)....then Kara runs....therefore, David runs through the house after shooting the mother calling out for Kara......????

 

[scandi]

I don't know why, but I have a feeling the mother was ill, and that is why after an hour of probably explosive discussion she had gone into her bedroom.

Another thing. If Kara was preggers it would explain some things. For one thing the note she wrote in that blog about they had decided what to do about something. It would explain an all nighter away from home as the problem could have been a point of discussion between them. And it could explain the long 1 hour discussion in the home with her parents, thinking that the P's found out then that she was preggers and the father probably flipped his lid and was very verbally agressive to David.

I got preggers when I was a freshman in college. My very upstanding parents were totally in shock when I went home with my beau to tell them and he then asked for my hand in marriage.

Well, back up at school the next day, here came my P's who literally kidnapped me, took me to a hospital where they performed one of the first legal abortions in Oregon. It was awful! But on that long drive down from college to the hospital, my dad made the comment that he'd like to cut this guy's 'thing' off. That's how mad he was.

I'm thinking Kara's dad could have been this angry too if she was preggers. We'll see. They just took some huge amount of guns from Davids house - I thought I heard 224, but that couldn't be right. Maybe it was 24 - anyway a lot! That poor father had his hands full in that home in the confrontation that turned into mayhem.

Scandi

 

[concernedperson]

Scandi, it was 54 guns. Plenty guns for one house I would think.

 

[scandi]

Thanks Concerned,

I knew my # was off but that it was a huge amount of guns. Why would an 18 year old have so many guns? It could be he collected them, but from what I read about him he had had problems, and I can't imagine his P's OKing this! I suppose none of them were licensed to him.


Scandi

 

[concernedperson]

Thanks Concerned,

I knew my # was off but that it was a huge amount of guns. Why would an 18 year old have so many guns? It could be he collected them, but from what I read about him he had had problems, and I can't imagine his P's OKing this! I suppose none of them were licensed to him.


Scandi

His father is a hunter as well as David. His dad probably was the licensed party.

 

[Lili]

I figured the gun issue would be here by now. First of all, IMO the 18 yr old should not have had access to the guns. They should have been in a locked gunsafe.

I heard the father was a collector as well as a hunter. 54 guns. Well, the father and son were hunters. Any brothers? Did the mother hunt as well?

Can't wait to hear about the arsenal on NG tonight! And OMG! I'll just bet they had amunition for every one of those guns! Oh! And what if dad reloads his ammo...gun powder! How many cans of gunpowder in the house? (I think we are allowed to have 5# locked in a secured safe area.)

People, please don't go off the deep end and jump to conclusions if you are not hunters.

:truce:

 

[Lili]

I am sorry if that sounds sarcastic, but guns don't kill people...people do. And I get sick and tired of people making a big deal about someone who might have invested in a nice collection to admire, or several different weapons to choose from to hunt legal game, or target shoot.

Like I said previously, this 18 year old should not have had access to the weapons in the home. Now his father has lost his possessions. Kids just do not think before they act. Such a shame.

Done ranting...... :slap:

 

[Nore]

I hate to say this b/c I really want to think/know/believe that Kara had nothing at all to do with her parents' deaths...but what if Kara shot Mom after David shot Dad?

---------
I also hate to say this but if Kara was in on it she may have held a gun over her mom.I'd like to know how far it is from the front door to the bedroom.I dont think they have stated how close together the shots were,could mean a lot.

I too think her father signed the death warrant by telling him to leave any weapons outside.He should have bolted the door and called 911.

 

[emmcee]

I want to know more about this presumed innocent girl. She had to have a major rebellious streak to go right ahead and sneak around with the 18 yr old, knowing full well that her parents would never approve. They say he kidnapped her - - but if she willingly sneaked around with him, there has to be a chance - - even a GOOD chance, that she willingly went along with him and was not kidnapped. I'm not saying she was an accomplice, but it's possible, isn't it?

 

[newtv]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/17/national/main1051615.shtml

othe article above is likely already posted but i thot i would add it just in case.
the police say she is a victim not part of the killings-read the article a few posts back
now i think its still under/open to review but there is no way she would have been released back to the family vs held in a detention center if they thot she was likely involved.
All teenagers are rebellous and most are boy crazy at a certain age-its really not a fair argument to use any of the normal transitinal phases of teenagedom and make an argument for involvement.
I have a hard time with leaping to the conclusion that she held a gun over her mothers head-there is no way the police would let her go if they thot it was even a remote possibility.

 

[JusticeMag]

Hey everyone - on the issue of Kara's culpability, Justice Magazine has a new article up on their website, with a prominent Lancaster County defense attorney telling us that insiders believe she got in David's car voluntarily. You can see the article, which also goes into the potential consequences for David and Kara, here: http://www.justicemag.com/daily/item/1713.html.

 

[newtv]

My daughter is 14 and it would be a cold day in hell before she would ever be allowed to date an 18yo!

lololol
that is too funnee (in a good way)

hey but what happens if your daughter (anyones), does it without u knowing-seems to me this was the case-not saying its ok-just that at times teens find away to do it anyhow and even the best parents end up victims to their childrens rebellion..

to me the actions the gurl took are not that unusual-unfortunately she took them with a gun toting maniac-sounds like he has to have complete control and if he isnt given the control he takes it
he deserves to be in prison forever-to me he would do this again and likely he is a potential wife beater/killer-
i dont think the gurl was capable of knowing the extent to which this boy would be a problem because she was in the stage where she wanted to be with him-if she had not wanted to be at some point and he wanted her to be-she would be the next one shot
jmo

 

[newtv]

Hey everyone - on the issue of Kara's culpability, Justice Magazine has a new article up on their website, with a prominent Lancaster County defense attorney telling us that insiders believe she got in David's car voluntarily. You can see the article, which also goes into the potential consequences for David and Kara, here: http://www.justicemag.com/daily/item/1713.html.

this article is speculation-its even written up as such-anyone can say this-she may not have had a gun at her head to get in the car-but she may have been in a state of shock and simply knew better than to not get in the car..
anyone can say what this article is saying-it feeds those who want the girl to be culpable
the truth is no one was in her shoes but her
and the police amy already know she got in the car without having a gun at her head
there are many ways to be held prisoner that do not look like your life was in danger-if someone just shot my parents I might deduce that i could be next if I did not do what was asked of me
sounds to me like many of u want her to be involved-i think u will be disappointed.

 

[emmcee]

. . .
sounds to me like many of u want her to be involved . . . .

Not sure that this is right, I doubt that anyone here WANTS her to have been involved, we're just looking into the possibilities. That's what this discussion forum is about, isn't it?

Hopefully she will be cleared. I believe all points of view are worthy of discussion.