Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[amybman1]

So question was the prominent family a false info or was Z family prominent in the community - at that time? I’m not sure if understand enough about the potential medical scars to be significant but could one of the parents be a known doctor around then? (if there is any merit to that idea)

I also wonder if their use of the word "prominent" was meant more as "widely known name" to convey that there were many people in the area with that last name, not so much that they were wealthy or political figures etc.

 

[HarmonyE.]

I also wonder if their use of the word "prominent" was meant more as "widely known name" to convey that there were many people in the area with that last name, not so much that they were wealthy or political figures etc.

They were in a profession where the name was likely locally recognizable by many.

 

[Friday Fan]

I'm curious about the blue dye that was found in his eye that they said was from a potential medical treatment. How long would something like that have stayed in his body? I've had tests where they've injected die for other various reasons and they usually tell you like 48 to 72 hours. So the question to me is how recent was this treatment before his death and if it was recent I feel like whoever performed it should have come forward.

I was reading about approved cases of gentian violet as a diagnostic dye for eye conditions. It stays in the eye for only a few hours. And gentian violet is one heck of a dye. It is available OTC. It's been around forever and has been a home remedy for all sorts of stuff. Just because it is currently approved for diagnosis doesn't mean people didn't use it for who knows what back then. Google gentian violet and you will see a million uses.
https://www.amazon.com/Humco-Gentian-Violet/dp/B000QTG3ME/ref=psdc_3760941_t1_B0073X5ARA?th=1

 

[amybman1]

Have we looked at the possibility that maybe the mother of J was sexually assaulted by a family member? It could explain the second cousin possibly and maybe why no one knew or said anything?

I sure hope that's not the case. From the way they're talking about it as DNA from both sides of the family etc I would hope that they truly mean two separate families.

 

[steff13]

I know there are parts of M's story that are possible, but I'm skeptical for a few reasons. Firstly, she told the story in 2002, 45 years later. That's a long time. We like to think the human memory, especially for traumatic events, is infallible, but it's not. Further, I believe there was a spate of individuals recalling traumatic events with the "assistance" of therapists in the 90s and early 00s that never actually happened. M's story was relayed to LE by her psychiatrist. The story had been presented in the national media several times by 2002, and M did live in the area when Joseph was found so she would have been privy to the situation at the time. I think M may have just been a mentally fragile woman who was conflating the stories she had heard regarding Joseph with her real life. That's my opinion only.

 

[LeBlack]

From listening to Misti's interview, the highest paternal match they could find was in Italy <modsnip>

What do you think this means? The paternal family isn't US or that the American branch has avoided being tested (via sources used for Genetic Genealogy at least) ?

 

[loveplace]

What do you think this means? The paternal family isn't US or that the American branch has avoided being tested (via sources used for Genetic Genealogy at least) ?

Likely it means that some siblings of that Italian family immigrated but some siblings stayed in Italy many years ago, possibly the US relatives have avoided testing for various reasons as well. But a third possibility is just that that particular ethnicity is underrepresented in the testing worldwide or with one particular DNA testing company.

edited for typos

 

[AliceInPain]

I also wonder if their use of the word "prominent" was meant more as "widely known name" to convey that there were many people in the area with that last name, not so much that they were wealthy or political figures etc.

The Z family are the only ones with that surname listed in the Philadelphia phone directories in the early 1950s.

 

[amybman1]

What do you think this means? The paternal family isn't US or that the American branch has avoided being tested (via sources used for Genetic Genealogy at least) ?

Likely it means that some siblings of that Italian family immigrated but some siblings stayed in Italy many years ago, possibly the US relatives have avoided testing for various reasons as well. But a third possibility is just that that particular ethnicity is underrepresented in the testing worldwide or with one particular DNA testing company.

edited for typos

Hm. Interesting thought because we know JT's mother has tested and that they believe she is a first cousin to JAZ-- that's a pretty close connection-- and she has a Zarelli uncle. Would it be likely that there is a closer relative on the Zarelli side in Italy? If not, does that mean Z is the maternal side since the paternal side is in Italy? So many people are sure that the Z's are mother's side and so many believe that the Z's are dad's side.

 

[Eddie99]

I know there are parts of M's story that are possible, but I'm skeptical for a few reasons. Firstly, she told the story in 2002, 45 years later. That's a long time. We like to think the human memory, especially for traumatic events, is infallible, but it's not. Further, I believe there was a spate of individuals recalling traumatic events with the "assistance" of therapists in the 90s and early 00s that never actually happened. M's story was relayed to LE by her psychiatrist. The story had been presented in the national media several times by 2002, and M did live in the area when Joseph was found so she would have been privy to the situation at the time. I think M may have just been a mentally fragile woman who was conflating the stories she had heard regarding Joseph with her real life. That's my opinion only.

I'm not sure where this "mentally fragile/ mentally ill, narrative is coming from.

This person had a good career in a very demanding industry.

If anything.....
Her seeking professional help, underscores the validity of this story.

 

[IDK]

How could LE otherwise have confirmed the name? Or is this just what some insider told them?

They did do chem tests tho. But stomach contents afaik were just looked at to determine what it was.

The fathers identity was confirmed by DNA testing after the birth certificate was obtained.

 

[amybman1]

The Z family are the only ones with that surname listed in the Philadelphia phone directories in the early 1950

And it could possibly be the other side of the family that was prominent or has it been pinpointed down to the Z family?

 

[IDK]

How could LE otherwise have confirmed the name? Or is this just what some insider told them?

Through DNA.

 

[Daphne1972]

Hm. Interesting thought because we know JT's mother has tested and that they believe she is a first cousin to JAZ-- that's a pretty close connection-- and she has a Zarelli uncle. Would it be likely that there is a closer relative on the Zarelli side in Italy? If not, does that mean Z is the maternal side since the paternal side is in Italy? So many people are sure that the Z's are mother's side and so many believe that the Z's are dad's side.

In this thread somebody mentioned that the mitochondrial DNA is from the Zarelli side.

 

[Daphne1972]

Through DNA.

A name is something that's been given to the hospital and to city hall for official registration. If someone has given birth to a child at home and doesn't register him, his DNA won't tell you anything re name.

 

[LeBlack]

Hm. Interesting thought because we know JT's mother has tested and that they believe she is a first cousin to JAZ-- that's a pretty close connection-- and she has a Zarelli uncle. Would it be likely that there is a closer relative on the Zarelli side in Italy? If not, does that mean Z is the maternal side since the paternal side is in Italy? So many people are sure that the Z's are mother's side and so many believe that the Z's are dad's side.

I MO EXAMPLE : Gedmatch allows you to opt in (or out - don't recall which is default) of testing for crimes. You test through another site and upload your raw data to make additional matches than available on your testing site. 'Regular" sites don't cooperate with LE in that way... So, the family could have tested all of their fam members, but if they didn't upload to one of these 'cooperative' sites, then the closest match was in Italy UNTIL LE approached closer relatives found via the birth certificate and doing a family tree on the named father.

I think I've figured out my answer. MOO.

 

[IDK]

A name is something that's been given to the hospital and to city hall for official registration. If someone has given birth to a child at home and doesn't register him, his DNA won't tell you anything re name.

Correct. My understanding is they used the name as a jumping off place, and then were able to confirm it was the same person, through DNA. IMO.

 

[amybman1]

I MO EXAMPLE : Gedmatch allows you to opt in (or out - don't recall which is default) of testing for crimes. You test through another site and upload your raw data to make additional matches than available on your testing site. 'Regular" sites don't cooperate with LE in that way... So, the family could have tested all of their fam members, but if they didn't upload to one of these 'cooperative' sites, then the closest match was in Italy UNTIL LE approached closer relatives found via the birth certificate and doing a family tree on the named father.

I think I've figured out my answer. MOO.

Oh that's so interesting!

 

[Daphne1972]

Correct. My understanding is they used the name as a jumping off place, and then were able to confirm it was the same person, through DNA. IMO.

That's interesting, cause it means the child was registered. And not hidden.

 

[Elley Mae]

A name is something that's been given to the hospital and to city hall for official registration. If someone has given birth to a child at home and doesn't register him, his DNA won't tell you anything re name.

The 2019 results were uploaded to DNA databases and “interpreted” by genealogists working on the case, Smith said. Based on the results, detectives were able to track down possible relatives of Zarelli on his mother’s side. More testing and investigation followed, which led to the identification of Zarelli’s mother.

Through a court order, detectives were then able to obtain from the state the birth, death and adoption records of all the children born to the mother between 1944 and 1956. The order yielded “responsive results:” the birth certificates of two children born to the mother and who were previously known to investigators, one of whom had provided a DNA sample, Smith said.

After 65 Years, Philadelphia Police Identify 'The Boy in the Box'

More than six decades since a child was found dead and abandoned in Philadelphia, police have identified "the Boy in the Box."

www.nbcphiladelphia.com

The third result was the birth certificate of a boy born to the mother in 1953. On that birth certificate was the name of the child’s father. Based on research from detectives and genealogists, the detectives contacted possible relatives of the child on his father’s side, Smith said.

Zarelli’s father was identified after genealogists established DNA connections on both sides of the family that could point only to that progenitor, said Colleen Fitzpatrick, the founder and president of Identifiers International, which specializes in genetic genealogy.