Identified! PA - Philadelphia - 'Boy in the Box' - 4UMPA - Feb'57 #3 - Joseph Augustus Zarelli

[spacedcurls]

I am taking what they told us in the press conference and other mainstream media about the process by which they gathered the information on the maternal side of the family at face value and applying it to the further specifics we have been told by JT. We know JT isnt affiliated with the father's side because we know the father's side is denying paternity in spite of DNA proof. Therefore his family is related to the maternal line of Joseph. The father's side isn't speaking out publicly. Jt has his father's surname. His mother has her fathers surname. Her mother's maiden name would need to be Zarelli for JT's mother to have a Zerelli uncle ( one of his grandmothers brothers, thus sharing the grandmother's maiden surname)

I don't think we can say that all of the paternal side is denying paternity, just because a few members are. I think it could be that Joseph's living siblings are denying it at the moment, but that doesn't mean that Joseph's cousins and other family from the paternal side (like JT's mom) are denying it.

 

[loveplace]

I don't think we can say that all of the paternal side is denying paternity, just because a few members are. I think it could be that Joseph's living siblings are denying it at the moment, but that doesn't mean that Joseph's cousins and other family from the paternal side (like JT's mom) are denying it.

Fair. I do think it is a good educated theory that JT's family and the Zarelli's are maternally related to Joseph. I dont think the fact that all paternal relatives aren't necessarily denying a connection changes that. Strictly my opinion.

 

[fred&edna]

Can someone please advise what 'responsive results' are?
Am I correct in thinking that there were 3 children born to the mother between 1944 and 1956?
How were the 2 children from the same mother known 'previously' by investigators? Are they older or younger?
I am also thinking that the other 2 children did not have the same father as Joey?

RSBM That's my assumption - the other two children didn't share that (Zarelli) last name. I don't think we have any additional info regarding the other children born to JAZ's mother between '44 - '56.

jmo

 

[spacedcurls]

Thanks for reminding me of a previous post!

From the article I have bolded elements that I find interesting:

Through a court order, detectives were then able to obtain from the state the birth, death and adoption records of all the children born to the mother between 1944 and 1956. The order yielded “responsive results:” the birth certificates of two children born to the mother and who were previously known to investigators, one of whom had provided a DNA sample, Smith said.

The third result was the birth certificate of a boy born to the mother in 1953. On that birth certificate was the name of the child’s father. Based on research from detectives and genealogists, the detectives contacted possible relatives of the child on his father’s side, Smith said.

Can someone please advise what 'responsive results' are?
Am I correct in thinking that there were 3 children born to the mother between 1944 and 1956?
How were the 2 children from the same mother known 'previously' by investigators? Are they older or younger?
I am also thinking that the other 2 children did not have the same father as Joey?

The way I understand it: They matched Joseph's DNA to family on the maternal side. They reached out to and spoke to a (half, probably) sibling of Joseph's, who said who their mother was and that they had another living sibling, and either gave DNA or was an initial DNA match. They then looked for the birth certificates, and found three of them -- two for the siblings they already knew about, and one for Joseph.

(edited to fix a word)

 

[Daphne1972]

Anyone can say anything. I would be extremely skeptical therapist or no therapist. All of the details were likely available publicly. It reminds of me of the guy who said that his father killed the Black Dahlia. Heck, they even made a movie about that! Yet, there is no proof, just a guy who had grudge against his father.

You mean that cop, what's his name.

 

[MarziPanda]

I am taking what they told us in the press conference and other mainstream media about the process by which they gathered the information on the maternal side of the family at face value and applying it to the further specifics we have been told by JT. We know JT isnt affiliated with the father's side because we know the father's side is denying paternity in spite of DNA proof. Therefore his family is related to the maternal line of Joseph. The father's side isn't speaking out publicly. Jt has his father's surname. His mother has her fathers surname. Her mother's maiden name would need to be Zarelli for JT's mother to have a Zerelli uncle ( one of his grandmothers brothers, thus sharing the grandmother's maiden surname)

I believe the half siblings on the father's side are denying, but LE have said that they have confirmed the father's side with DNA, so someone must have provided some. I believe, personally, that means they confirmed with cousin matches such as JT's mother. There's been nothing to say that the father's entire side aren't speaking out. The mother's side aren't speaking out either. Joseph's parents names aren't being given and may never be. We quite simply don't know for sure which side JT is on.

I really don't understand what you mean about surnames? JT and his mother would have the surname of, presumably, her husband. Her mother would have the surname of her husband, but her maiden name can be (and seems to be) Zarelli. Her brother (and therefore JT's mother's uncle) would then be a Zarelli as mentioned. Which is what you said. But I don't see how that has any relevance as to what side the Zarellis are for Joseph. Like I said, that JT specified that his mother's maternal uncle was a Zarelli makes me personally suspect that he was Joseph's parent, rather than one of his sisters.

 

[Daphne1972]

Anyone can say anything. I would be extremely skeptical therapist or no therapist. All of the details were likely available publicly. It reminds of me of the guy who said that his father killed the Black Dahlia. Heck, they even made a movie about that! Yet, there is no proof, just a guy who had grudge against his father.

You mean that cop, what's his name.

 

[taylor024519]

I believe her story is that her mother purchased the little boy specifically to abuse him. The story was investigated at the time and nothing came of it. I just recently reread it and I tend to think that it's not *the* story. For instance she said that her mother kept him in the basement and he was never allowed outside and no one outside the home was allowed to see him, but he clearly had had some sort of medical intervention, so someone outside the household must have seen him.

I think M story is a huge fabrication

 

[steff13]

The way I understand it: They matched Joseph's DNA to family on the maternal side. They reached out to and spoke to a (half, probably) sibling of Joseph's, who said who their mother was and that they had another living sibling, and either gave DNA or was an initial DNA match. They then looked for the birth certificates, and found three of them -- two for the siblings they already knew about, and one for Joseph.

(edited to fix a word)

I wonder if we can glean from that that Joseph is the eldest of the three? If the other two children are living and have both parents in common, then Joseph likely came first, perhaps at a time when the mother was not married.

 

[Ontario Mom]

You mean that cop, what's his name.

I remembered he was a cop but also forgot his name. Heck, his story seemed believable to me.

jmo

ETA: I know who killed the Black Dahlia: my own father Only slightly off topic I suppose, as it relates to outrageous stories of unsolved crimes

 

[BananaBreaderz]

After watching the press conference again, there was an error in my previous post that the father was named on the birth certificate and confirmed through further testing of half siblings. While the correct biological father was named on the birth certificate (with spelling variation), the family of the boy on the father’s side denies there is any proof that this boy is related to them, indicating the living half-siblings did not participate in DNA comparison. Dr Fitzpatrick was able to confirm the father by using DNA from Joseph Augustus’ first cousins to narrow the father down to a brother in that family.
It’s a reasonably assumption that Joseph Zarelli is part of the family with his last name from that exact West Philadelphia neighborhood named, but that’s where it ends because we don’t know if that is maternally or paternally. Given that the grandfather’s name was a version of Augustus, Joseph could have been the child of any one of the sons or daughters of that family and given the middle name to honor the grandfather.

This would give credence to the rumor that his siblings (presumably on the father’s side) refused to give DNA. Very sad if true.

 

[Friday Fan]

I just looked at my grandfather's PA BC (1914)-- the book copy, not just the copy you'd get if you requested one from vital statistics and there isn't a place that asks that. I don't know if that was added later or not. I don't have the book copy of my dad's (1953)-- just the regular format to check what the form was like by the 50's. The 1914 form does have a place for signature of physician, midwife, or unattended (where father would fill in info). It also asks for info such as number in order of birth, legitimate, twin/triplet etc but doesn't ask specifically about home/hospital (unless there were just different forms depending on whether it was a home or hospital birth). Also, there was an error on my grandfather's BC that I knew he had tried to correct in the 60's because I found his notes saying so but when I ordered his BC I received the uncorrected version. Vital statistics had no record of the correction for some reason, but they said any time corrections were made to a birth certificate (and again, I don't know what year this started/stopped), the original one in their book would not be corrected or written over, but a paper with the necessary corrections would be glued to the back of it in their book. I don't know if they would also put any name change due to adoption in the book that way as well?

I pulled up my microfiched PA BC from 1956. This microfiche was obtained and paid for by my parents in March 1957.

It was filled out by someone who had very nice penmanship. (Not my parents..LOL) It had a rubber stamp with the hospital's name and address. Also the form indicates that if not in hospital to provide the address etc.

Birth certificates of those legally adopted in the 1950's were very likely sealed.

I think most births were still at home in 1914. Most births were hospital in the 1950s.
I think JAZ was born in a hospital because he was circumcised.

 

[loveplace]

I wonder if we can glean from that that Joseph is the eldest of the three? If the other two children are living and have both parents in common, then Joseph likely came first, perhaps at a time when the mother was not married.

I don't know that we can definitively say that the other children had both parents in common with Joseph. It seems if that were true they would have had a much closer initial DNA match.

 

[renalp]

Graduated college with honors, Master’s degree, PhD, Assoc. Professor, BS Summa *advertiser censored* Laude

Sorry, I just find it hilarious that the censor bots think her academic honor is a dirty word.

 

[steff13]

Sorry, I just find it hilarious that the censor bots think her academic honor is a dirty word.

It took me a second to realize what word it was. Perhaps we can say "Summa Come Laude.

 

[steff13]

I don't know that we can definitively say that the other children had both parents in common with Joseph. It seems if that were true they would have had a much closer initial DNA match.

That's fair. Frankly, if I were the family, I think I would just make a public statement and lay it out. Especially if Joseph wasn't raised by his bio parents. I wouldn't want the public speculating that one of my grandparents was a monster.

 

[spacedcurls]

I wonder if we can glean from that that Joseph is the eldest of the three? If the other two children are living and have both parents in common, then Joseph likely came first, perhaps at a time when the mother was not married.

We can't determine where Joseph falls in the birth order, because they looked for birth certificates for 1944-1956 -- that could mean that one of the siblings was born in 1944 and they wanted to make sure they included it in the sample, or it could be that they chose a larger span of years just in case Joseph was somehow older than he was thought to be at death. We can't really glean any information from it, not without seeing the birth certificates ourselves, other than that he definitely has (at least) two siblings on his maternal side.

 

[loveplace]

That's fair. Frankly, if I were the family, I think I would just make a public statement and lay it out. Especially if Joseph wasn't raised by his bio parents. I wouldn't want the public speculating that one of my grandparents was a monster.

ITA.

 

[doublestop]

We know JT isnt affiliated with the father's side because we know the father's side is denying paternity in spite of DNA proof.

Not necessarily. It could be other branches of the father's side who are denying paternity, not JT's specific line.

Also, where can I find more info about them denying paternity? I keep seeing it referred to but haven't seen the source.

 

[steff13]

Not necessarily. It could be other branches of the father's side who are denying paternity, not JT's specific line.

Also, where can I find more info about them denying paternity? I keep seeing it referred to but haven't seen the source.

I don't know if it's in writing anywhere, but one of the reporters said it at the press conference during the Q&A. LE basically scoffed at the assertion, because of the DNA.