PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

Here is a copy of the PA Small Estate statute: http://smallestates.uslegal.com/aff...stration-laws/pennsylvania-small-estates-law/

 

[Saunterer]

From the recorder of Wills for Centre County:

"We do have a file on Ray Gricar. However his file does not include a will. Mr. Gricar’s estate was settled by means of a petition for settlement of small estate. If you would like a copy of the entire file, the fee is $24.00".

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot........

I can handle $24.00 if you folks would like to see if we have a lead or a :worms:

Sounds like a waste of $24. I was hoping one of JJ's local contacts might look at the courthouse records (i.e. estate file, trusts, Orphans' Court records, etc.) to see if there was any useful information. I suspect there is not, and that that is the reason no news media report has been made regarding the same.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What the arrangements were six years later really don't interest me. LG inherited and she was entitled to. It is what was happening prior to 4/15/05 that will be of major importance.

 

[deca]

I do have a list of professor average salaries in 2002-3, though not the specific professor:

http://www.senate.psu.edu/agenda/apr27-04agn/salarytables042704.pdf

BG was a full professor in business administration in 2002-03, and started (at a lower level) in 1979. The average salary was then $141,000. She also may have had outside income.

WHOA! I stand corrected. Maybe because she had other admin duties? Or they just pay their profs really well. I feel really bad for the folks I know that take on second jobs because their college prof gig pays jack. Maybe business professors are like law professors in that they get paid more to reflect what they would make in a career outside the university.
So you are right in that most likely he was contributing no more than 50% to raise his daughter.

Do we know what Ray's social lifestyle was? Did he go out to dinner often? Take trips? etc.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Deca, that $141 K is just what an average full professor made at Smeal in 2002-03. At that point, BG had been there for 23 years and she had an administrative post as well. I don't know if she had extra pay for that, but she might have. She might have been making well above that average. She also did consulting, on top of that.

At the time of their divorce, RFG was making less than $45 K per year. She was still making more. When they moved to State College, they planned to live off BG's salary alone; RFG was planning to be a stay-at-home-dad.

RFG did take vacations in the early 2000's but domestic ones; prior to 1986, he'd been to Europe twice. He went out to eat, but in Bellefonte. No personal trainer or anything like that; PEF used the YMCA.

He helped pay on PEF's mortgage. The assessed value was in the low $60 K range, but she inherited part of it, at least, and she owned it prior to RFG moving in; part of that mortgage would have already been paid. He paid some of the bills.

I've probably "lowballed" RFG's income a bit, but I think as you can see from today's developments, there are serious questions about his finances.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

RFG's 1990 salary was $40,000. http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_3d27fe77-b795-579f-8391-da85ff4c0be9.html

At the time, an "assistant professor" the lowest ranking professor, had an average salary of 54,000. BG had been an "associate professor," the next highest rank, since at least 1985 (average salary in 1990, $60 K).

$40,000 in 1990 would be about $69 K in 2012 dollars.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Just a note: The law on small estates was changed in July of this year with the limit raised to $50,000.

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/cfdocs/legis/LI/consCheck.cfm?txtType=HTM&ttl=20&div=0&chpt=31

 

[Saunterer]

Since the estate was "small", I assume Gricar had directed most of his assets into a trust (also the joint account held with his daughter). This could explain both the apparent sparsity of assets when he disappeared, and the satisfaction of investigators that his finances were found to be in order.

Here is some information on trusts: http://www.centrelaw.com/practice-areas/details.php?id=11

I do not know for sure, but I think trust documents would not have to be made public unless there was some issue needing court review/action.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm not sure that a trust would not be part of an estate, at least for tax purposes. That said, there are some instruments that could be used for sheltering assets.

The questions would be when RFG set it up and if the money in the hypothetical trust would be sufficient to show that there was not major assets missing.

In terms of the timing, making arraignments for any kind of estate planning in the two years prior to his disappearance would point away from murder (though it wouldn't prove it wasn't murder).

 

[Trackergd]

I am hoping that in that stack of paperwork are lists of any trusts for the purposes of noting they were exempt from taxes.

I am also interested if there are listings of property, structures and/or chattels and if there were creditors who had leans or claims on the estate.

What taxes were paid may also provide some strings to pull. Such as who paid inheritance taxes etc...

 

[Saunterer]

I'm not sure that a trust would not be part of an estate, at least for tax purposes. That said, there are some instruments that could be used for sheltering assets.

The questions would be when RFG set it up and if the money in the hypothetical trust would be sufficient to show that there was not major assets missing.

In terms of the timing, making arraignments for any kind of estate planning in the two years prior to his disappearance would point away from murder (though it wouldn't prove it wasn't murder).

According to the link I posted, assets placed in (for instance) an irrevocable living trust are not attributable to the trustor [Gricar in this instance], although the trust itself may be taxed, and may also allow estate taxes to be avoided.

A trust makes total sense for a person with Gricar's assumed assets and, IMO, would in no way reflect upon his disappearance. It is just good estate planning. I suspect he set up a trust after his divorce in 2001. I also suspect his salary was being direct-deposited into the account he held jointly with his daughter.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

When any arrangements to shelter assets would be important. If RFG did begin to shelter assets close to the time he disappeared, that would be indicative of RFG anticipating a situation where his daughter would inherit. It would weaken foul play/accident as an option.

I would not read too much into his will, except for the dates that he set up whatever option he could have set up.

It is certainly possible that the explanation for the lack of assets is simply due to estate planning; so far, there is no evidence that this was the case.

The only thing we can say is that, based on his salary, RFG's assets appear to be too low. The explanation for that could be estate planning. It may not be.

 

[SeekingJana]

I agree that for now, the dates seem to be the most valuable part of the documents. I think they are important to establish or rule out possible plans of permanent leave-taking.
Also, for all we know right now, an interesting name not in the public eye may surface. I don't expect it to, nor would I want to see anyone's privacy disturbed, but discreet inquiry can be made via the Internet now on just about anyone with good results. Just food for thought.

I see no reason to approach the incoming info with pessimism and a dismissive attitude.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't really think, at this point in time, we need to speculate on how much LG inherited or how much in taxes she paid, except to say that RFG probably provided for her financially. She was entitled to inherit and I don't begrudge her a penny.

Asking about the disposition of RFG's assets prior to 4/16/05 and the timing of any change in disposition is legitimate, because of the possibility of too few assets and because the timing may be related to his disappearance. Further, knowing that disposition cannot reveal how much money LG received nor can it tell us anything of her current financial state.

 

[Saunterer]

Set up the right trust ... and a joint account with a daughter (for living expenses). Deposit salary payments to the joint account or trust. Own no real estate or expensive personalty. That way, if you should die, your "estate" amounts to a closet full of suits and a shelf of antique what-nots.

I do not care how much the daughter got. I assume she got it all. And I assume "it" was all accounted for in the investigation (the FBI part); that the concerns over "shorting" exist only in the minds of slackers (as to legitimate estate planning).

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would not make any such assumption. The only things that LE has reported were:

1. About $100 K in a joint account.

2. No mass movement of money shortly before he disappeared.

3. $16 K in cash withdrawals over the prior 2.5 years (about $125/week).

4. The Mini was in PEF's name, and was paid for.

5. RFG owned no real property.

There has been no suggestion that most of his money was in a trust (or any other instrument associated with estate planning). Had that been the case, and it was disclosed, it is likely it would have tamped down a lot of questions.

 

[Saunterer]

I would not make any such assumption. The only things that LE has reported were:

1. About $100 K in a joint account.

2. No mass movement of money shortly before he disappeared.

3. $16 K in cash withdrawals over the prior 2.5 years (about $125/week).

4. The Mini was in PEF's name, and was paid for.

5. RFG owned no real property.

There has been no suggestion that most of his money was in a trust (or any other instrument associated with estate planning). Had that been the case, and it was disclosed, it is likely it would have tamped down a lot of questions.

Did you mean to say it would have blown some long-held misbelief out of the water?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, for someone, but not me. It might change the odds, but that would depend on the timing.

The possibility of sheltered assets has been mentioned:

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/11/19/2406877/the-least-weak-evidence-for-walkaway.html

And here, indicating that there could be more assets: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/04/06/2396744/income-and-assets.html

Here is one dealing with the Mini specifically:

http://www.centredaily.com/2010/04/21/2397324/two-pieces-two-explanations.html

 

[Saunterer]

<modsnip>. The public is not entitled to any information from LE with respect to an ongoing investigation, unless there is a potential ongoing threat. LE does not care that the public does not understand or misinterprets any particular aspect of an investigation, where there is no potential ongoing threat. LE often contributes misleading information to the public, where there is no potential ongoing threat.

<modsnip> That is not to say that LE does not like tips or does not read discussion forums such as this ... just that LE is not about partnering with the public ... period. Of course, this is just MOO.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, it would clarify the situation. People may be looking for a potential murderer and not for a guy living in Slovenia. You might remember Ivy Butterworth who said that she didn't share her information with LE, because she thought RFG walked away. Now, her information wasn't likely accurate, but someone else might have accurate information. That hypothetical "someone else" might decide that it wasn't important, because he/she thinks RFG walked away.

Further, if RFG did have a trust established, why wouldn't the family announce it, without giving a dollar amount? Do I need to remind people of the comment, "He was making a fair amount of money; but, at least from a forensic accounting standpoint, the thought is there that there should have been more cash."

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/25/case-of-missing-pa-district-attorney-ray-gricar-baffles-police/

Certainly, if there was a trust, that comment would never had to have been made. We wouldn't be asking questions about it.