PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #11

[Trackergd]

If he did not own any real property (that we know of), does it appear that he divested himself of vehicles and real estate over say a two to three year period?

If his tax records are public information, it should be possible to to look at the Federal tax documentation over a five year period and see if he had unrealized gains from non 401K or IRA investments and sales, and the deductions for property taxes and school taxes would have stopped showing up the year following the property sale.

This may not have been a "spur of the moment" game plan.

Anyone research the Federal and State Tax Records yet?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm pretty sure the tax records are confidential.

He had a house, but his second wife retained it in the 2001 divorce. IIRC, the value had increased, though it notes an "equitable" property distribution.

Just a not on the will and trust possibility. Any trust could have been set up after RFG disappeared, so without a date, it would not be indicative with anything.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In other news, Stacy Parks Miller did got both party nominations, taking the Republican one by write-in votes. That is a feat that has not happened in Centre County since at least 1981.

RFG was unopposed in 1997, but did not win the Democratic nomination.

 

[Trackergd]

In other news, Stacy Parks Miller did got both party nominations, taking the Republican one by write-in votes. That is a feat that has not happened in Centre County since at least 1981.

RFG was unopposed in 1997, but did not win the Democratic nomination.

Is it possible for us to petition Miller to apply some serious resources to this case?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Petition, as in court, I would doubt it.

Ask her, sure. I'm not certain that just throwing money at this would be any more effective.

 

[SeekingJana]

I'm pretty sure the tax records are confidential.

He had a house, but his second wife retained it in the 2001 divorce. IIRC, the value had increased, though it notes an "equitable" property distribution.

Just a not on the will and trust possibility. Any trust could have been set up after RFG disappeared, so without a date, it would not be indicative with anything.

Ray Gricar's ability to sign or otherwise authorize a trust or other legal document would not be possible after April 15. Documents signed before the date of his disappearance are what we are concerned with for the most part, quite obviously.

Could you please clarify your last sentence BBM? Thanks!!

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sure. His daughter was the trustee and had the ability administrate all of RFG's accounts. In theory, at least, she could have set up the hypothetical trust. Any estate planning could have been done after 4/15/05. RFG would not lose any money on that and might gain some from sound management.

 

[SeekingJana]

I'm sorry, I misread it when you first posted. My apologies. Makes sense... but I'm not too certain how " involved" Lara was with much of anything in PA from what I've seen after her father disappeared.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Amos Goodall is a top notch wills and estates lawyer and represented LG. He may have advised her on the proper aspects of estate planning.

 

[SeekingJana]

Is he a friend of yours by any chance, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have never met him, but I looked at his background.

He is, for example, a member of the American College of Trust and Estate Counsel; there are six mid-state (most are in Phila and Pittsburgh). It is invitational; you don't get in by submitting a check. He's also a certified Elder Law Attorney, which requires additional testing.

He has also published in the field, in professional journals.

He's been in wills and estates for at least 30 years.

If I needed an attorney to handle a complicated estate issue, like the estate of a missing person, in Centre County, I'd call him.

 

[SeekingJana]

I am issuing a challenge, on this, the weekend od Ray Gricar's 68th birthday. It is a challenge which I am also taking on myself.

The challenge is doable for MOST of us this weekend. It's self- contained here on WS.

To go back to thread one, post one, and read the posts regarding developments as they occurred and to measure your own belief system as you read the beliefs and theories of others for 8 years.

This is my sole goal for the weekend. I have complications from a dental procedure and believe that this is the best opportunity I have to go back and read the local posters' ideas and impressions and also those of the WS community over the years.

I will be making notes as the amount of material that I have read is massive and I may have lots of new questions upon re-examination. Or I may not have.

So, if you see me online here a great deal this weekend, I will be reading the archives on Mr. Gricar's case, especially before I knew about him being missing and started posting.

Join me if you can. I'm sure that JJ is caught up and aware of the contents of the closed, full threads. I wish I was too.
Taking a deep breath, for the first part will the most painful to read.

Until I see you " on the surface" later.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

First, I hope that your dental problems get resolved.

Second, I do that a lot. This site is ideal for that. And yes, my ideas on the case have changed over the years. For the first six months of this case, I thought it was suicide. Today I give suicide a 3% chance. That is subject to change, of course.

 

[SeekingJana]

Thanks for the well wishes regarding the dental problem. Today's dentist is the equivalent of a 1980's high life defense attorney around here. Over $5000 spent on 2 unseen molars and now I'm in agony-- while dentist spends weekend with new trophy wife and second family in his lakefront estate. Sorry for being O/T there a second. We are all human..

You were my inspiration to do the retro reading, of course.

I have pages of notes. I think my attention was diverted from this case initially when it was a breaking news story because Jennifer Willbanks in GA was the " runaway bride" at the same time, roughly. Since hers was a cruel hoax, it makes me angry that I missed the first news and interviews and impressions, for while they are amply referenced here, the links no longer work.
That is the elephant in the room when it comes to a site like this one which does have very old cases and also copyright laws to adhere to. The snippets which are quoted may or may NOT reflect the gist of the entire interview or news segment on the case.

All in all, people were asking the same things in April 2005 except for the whereabouts of the laptop, which was a huge question then, and there were rumors of a sighting with a woman in Lewisburg from the very beginning. Also, there is an interview in which it is said that there was discord between Ray and Patty. Not that she harmed him, but that he lived with her, worked with her, lived in her house, drove her car and then the plans for retirement came to light quickly in which Patty said she was also retiring so they could travel together. Many posters felt he was emotionally pinned down by the relationship and didn't know how to leave without a lot of hurt and with no solid reason other than too much togetherness.

NOT to say that he left town because of feeling smothered, but people sensed a general overall dissatisfaction and boredom, apparently from interviews with his colleagues. Then there was the one incident of the Cleveland trip... people thought at the time that he was feeling a need for change. Maybe their posts reflected their own hopes and needs, not sure. Leaving without a trace would certainly be a drastic way to relieve boredom.
Posters were split in the beginning about foul play vs. walkaway but most did not think suicide because Ray knew the pain the survivors feel first hand with his brother's death.

I started reading the case in real time here on WS in the second thread, so threads 2 through present were easier reads as I remembered most of it as it unfolded. The laptop and the MW.

There was an interesting couple of posters in the beginning who aren't here now I guess. One was a man who had to be the most passionate Mini owner ever and the other, a lady who said she was at the SOS and saw Ray's Mini in the parking lot with her small daughter, who touched the car. Mother was worried child would be a suspect due to fingerprint.

The Mini Club of America was very involved in the first weeks and wanted to conduct volunteer searches ( I had to wonder if they were planning on doing so in their Minis LOL). They posted a statement to their site " One of us is missing". It was very touching. The Mini owner/ poster kept saying there is a hidden compartment in a Mini where some evidence might have been stored but he doubted police knew where it was.

The FBI was involved in the case during the first week and the first things they said they were doing were analyzing cell phone data and banking data.

The only other highlight was that the mother who was there said there was a lot of heavy construction on the block where the SOS is. She could not take her child to an ice cream parlor they frequented because of the construction. She said she lived in the town. Makes me wonder how much there was to do there at the time.

 

[Saunterer]

The only construction going on locally at the time was inside the SoS ... the restaurant/ice cream parlor inside the building was being remodled. I remember getting a good breakfast there right after that work was finished.

 

[SeekingJana]

OK, guess the antiquing trip was not interrupted by jackhammers on Friday the 15th then. Glad to know, as I don't think the previous poster made it clear at all that it was limited to the very place she wanted to be and not the entire block of shops.

 

[Saunterer]

For those who have never been there ... the Street of Shops is not a street of shops, but rather a bunch of shops contained within a single structure (converted old factory).
http://www.streetofshops.net/

 

[SeekingJana]

I didn't know that, either. Thank you for the link. Your last name isn't Bennett, is it? :wink:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've said it before, and I don't think it is a negative, but PEF was exceptionally insular. I think she was born in Bellefonte, but she went to high school there and grew up in same house she still lived in at the time of the disappearance. She still has family in the area.

She is living in a town, of about 6,000 people, where her uncle was the mayor while she was in high school. She went to college an eleven mile drive down the road, to a school where two uncles (I think) and her older brother went. She married a fellow student, who also worked in Bellefonte. As far as I can tell, every job she's had has been in Bellefonte. Most of her life has been within 15 miles of the Centre County Courthouse.

RFG, in contrast, grew up in a large city. He went to college about 175 miles away,in the same state, majored in the history of a foreign country as an undergraduate. He went back to Cleveland, but only for about 10 years. In his thirties, he moved to State College, which had a big city "feel," but not the ethnicity of Cleveland. None of his family lived in the immediate area in 2005. He married his second wife in Virginia.

Those are two very different life trajectories.

 

[SeekingJana]

You've said it often, not just " before", and I do consider it to be a negative. Patty was not Ray's equal in terms of either life experiences OR education, and I don't see how she could possibly have interested him for 18 or so months. Usually, a very intelligent person has to have a partner who challenges them in either life experience OR has a similar high intellect and challenging career path. This is not specific to Ray and Patty, but is psychologically true of mature couples in general who have dynamic relationships over a long period of time.

I think he was, as a few posters said and one commentator remarked, " coasting" until someone else entered his life. Maybe that someone else DID enter...and his life plans changed. We don't know.

Did I mention that the words " boredom" and " trapped" were used by other posters very early on to describe some interview summaries with people who knew Ray and Patty? One of his friends said he was a very good D.A., but his personal life was the equivalent of a " pet rock". I don't know who said that, but the posters here took it as a slam against him just a few days after his disappearance and before they knew what a co-dependent set of multi-factorial personal life circumstances he was in with Patty. I think the guests who knew Ray were mostly on Greta's TV show. Also, some of the behavioral therapist type talking heads talked about him leaving due to not having anything significant emotionally keeping him there..

Once people learned the facts about her background, the talk increased. No one ever said " He was too old for her", or " His career was too dangerous" but said " He must have been emotionally recovering from his second divorce" and " Patty was hurt by his disappearance but never ONCE pleaded for a kidnapper to release him; instead asked HIM to come home". I think that speaks volumes of what she was thinking. It was also hypothesized that they had a falling out of sorts because the situation between them had become such that he had pretty much promised her a commitment in actions, if not words, OR she perceived thus. The paying off her mortgage then living with her and not maintaining any separate residence, him driving a car owned by her and with HER name on the vanity plates, and then of course the job situation in the same offices.
They were intertwined in all aspects of their lives.
I started thinking today more about how bored he might have been with her. Besides, there is that photo of her standing next to Lara's mother which speaks louder than a thousand words to me, personally.

Most of all- when Ray had been missing for a short time, and the family was still attending press conferences, what on earth caused Patty to ASSUME that Ray was in a position to be able to leave at will and then return to her at will? She pleaded with him to " Come home" but she never pleaded with a possible kidnapper to release him, to not harm him, anything of that nature.

Several posters early on said they thought he was using the excuse of excess tiredness and sleeping as a temporary emotional escape. I think there is a great possibility that they were correct, and have thought the same for years.. either that, or he was doing something on his computer late at night on some nights before he disappeared, thus was napping during the day out of choice and Patty didn't know the whole story.