PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[SuperSmith]

Trackergd- you expressed interest in the geography and locations of the computer/hard drive.

Here is some excellent sites for your review.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=...d=108413108873990220600.00048c28f65953ab3ea29

https://sites.google.com/site/raygricar/

 

[J. J. in Phila]

<modsnip> I was agreeing with you about wiping the drive. As evidenced in the link I provided a hammer is the most useful tool in destroying a hard drive (no screwdriver required)

<modsnip>

The site you linked to actually shows the cover being removed. The instruction says "Open the drive case." That needs a special tool.

It is me saying to someone, "There is $1000 for you in my safe. Just go in and get it." If I don't give the person the combination, he can't go in and get it.

 

[SuperSmith]

<modsnip>

The site you linked to actually shows the cover being removed. The instruction says "Open the drive case." That needs a special tool.

It is me saying to someone, "There is $1000 for you in my safe. Just go in and get it." If I don't give the person the combination, he can't go in and get it.

The hard drive platter only needs to be destroyed. That can be accomplished with or with out the cover on and with a hammer Posters are free to verify my provided information.

Cannot beat open a safe with a hammer

 

[J. J. in Phila]

The hard drive platter only needs to be destroyed. That can be accomplished with or with out the cover on and with a hammer

Cannot beat open a safe with a hammer

Actually, it cannot be, by blunt force. Tossing it repeatedly on cement, even with force, hitting the case with a hammer, repeatedly, will not make the platter unreadable. You may not be able to slip it into a computer and read it, but the data would be recoverable.

Once opened, you can easily smash the drive.

http://lifehacker.com/5797029/how-to-dismantle-and-destroy-a-hard-drive

The tool is called a "TORX bits" according to the site.

There are ways to destroy the drive with a cover on. Heavy magnetic field, if you have a large electromagnet just sitting around. Acid, if you keep a vat in the basement. Putting it into the microwave, destroying the drive, microwave and possibly setting your house on fire. Oh, and dropping it in water, dirty running water, for a while.

The first step is to open the drive case.

 

[SuperSmith]

Actually, it cannot be, by blunt force. Tossing it repeatedly on cement, even with force, hitting the case with a hammer, repeatedly, will not make the platter unreadable. You may not be able to slip it into a computer and read it, but the data would be recoverable.

Once opened, you can easily smash the drive.

http://lifehacker.com/5797029/how-to-dismantle-and-destroy-a-hard-drive

The tool is called a "TORX bits" according to the site.

There are ways to destroy the drive with a cover on. Heavy magnetic field, if you have a large electromagnet just sitting around. Acid, if you keep a vat in the basement. Putting it into the microwave, destroying the drive, microwave and possibly setting your house on fire. Oh, and dropping it in water, dirty running water, for a while.

The first step is to open the drive case.

Special firms either degauss, destroy or melt the harddrives.

Harddrives are magnetic data. Magnetism can be destroyed by either:

&#8226;Degaussing (changing the magnetism)


&#8226;Heating the drive (melting) (which destroys/changes the magnetism)


&#8226;Hammering (shock) (shock damages magnetism somewhat, but the denting of the drive makes it very difficult to read the surface, as metal deforms, the surface area changes as well thus making it even more difficult to determine what is and isn't a sector)


&#8226;Drilling (removes sectors altogether, physically changes the layout of the drive like hammering, generates a large localised amount of heat as well)


&#8226;shooting (same as hammering, but more extreme)


&#8226;Chemical corrosion (if the magnetic substrate is removed from the platters altogether, there's nothing left to recover)


&#8226;Shredding, there's plenty of services that offer to shred your harddrive which leaves you with nothing but metal scraps, nothing to recover there.


So, Would simply submerging the drive render it un-usable? No. Probably not to an experienced forensics or recovery team. What WILL kill the drive is corrosion of the platters, so it depends on what you add to the water, how long it stays in there, what the platters are made out of and how good the people trying to recover the data are.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070815102707AANO5Aq

 

[SuperSmith]

If he were leaving anyway..why not take the drive with him? Just curious.

Great point! Doubt he would use it though since the laptop was gone.

 

[Kimster]

Blogs have to be approved by admin before they can be sourced. Please contact me privately if you'd like to discuss a blog. :tyou:

 

[J. J. in Phila]

While hammering may damage the plate, it doesn't make it unreadable. It would make it difficult to slip it into another computer and run it, but we're talking about recovery.

Some of those other methods work, but they mostly involve hardware that most people don't have.

One other thing about hammering. It is extremely noisy!

 

[SuperSmith]

While hammering may damage the plate, it doesn't make it unreadable. It would make it difficult to slip it into another computer and run it, but we're talking about recovery.

Some of those other methods work, but they mostly involve hardware that most people don't have.

One other thing about hammering. It is extremely noisy!

In my opinion MOST people have access to a drill, fire, or hammer and certainly would render a drive unreadable as referenced in the link I provided. They are all also better methods than water

 

[J. J. in Phila]

In my opinion MOST people have access to a drill, fire, or hammer and certainly would render a drive unreadable as referenced in the link I provided. They are all also better methods than water

I don't own a drill. My neighbors don't own one. Someone that does their own home repairs may.

As for fire, this isn't holding over a candle for 15 minutes. It is a hot fire, like a blow torch.

Tossing the drive into a river, where it will probably remain for a few weeks, at least, is much easier, and effective.

 

[SuperSmith]

I don't own a drill. My neighbors don't own one. Someone that does their own home repairs may.

As for fire, this isn't holding over a candle for 15 minutes. It is a hot fire, like a blow torch.

Tossing the drive into a river, where it will probably remain for a few weeks, at least, is much easier, and effective.

Sorry you don't own a drill but assure you that you are in the minority in that department.

Water in itself does not destroy a hard drive. I'm sure you researched that. In my opinion you are reaching a bit.

BTW I have an extra drill if you'd like one

 

[nevereverever]

Fact: Ray Gricar had been asking about erasing information from a hard drive. Fact: Someone ran internet searches on Gricar's home computer about "how to wreck a hard drive," "how to fry a hard drive," and "water damage to a notebook computer." I think it's reaching to think anyone but Ray Gricar is responsible for the computer and hard drive ending up in that water.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Sorry you don't own a drill but assure you that you are in the minority in that department.

Water in itself does not destroy a hard drive. I'm sure you researched that. In my opinion you are reaching a bit.

BTW I have an extra drill if you'd like one

I've seen no suggestion that RFG owned a drill or was big on household repairs. While most people do have a wrench or a hammer, power tools are a different matter.

One site says 55%, but that doesn't necessarily mean a drill. http://www.napsnet.com/pdf_archive/119/68980.pdf

I have never heard of RFG doing any projects at home, installing something, repairing something. Some people also use him in work, but not lawyers.

There would also be the possibility of RFG wanting to download something just before he tossed it, or to check it, one last time, before tossing it.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Fact: Ray Gricar had been asking about erasing information from a hard drive. Fact: Someone ran internet searches on Gricar's home computer about "how to wreck a hard drive," "how to fry a hard drive," and "water damage to a notebook computer." I think it's reaching to think anyone but Ray Gricar is responsible for the computer and hard drive ending up in that water.

The police said specifically it was RFG, not just "someone." They could have the actual times the searches were done.

I think the idea of some second party surreptitiously sneaking into RFG's house and doing computer searches is stretching things beyond the breaking point.

 

[SuperSmith]

Fact: Ray Gricar had been asking about erasing information from a hard drive. Fact: Someone ran internet searches on Gricar's home computer about "how to wreck a hard drive," "how to fry a hard drive," and "water damage to a notebook computer." I think it's reaching to think anyone but Ray Gricar is responsible for the computer and hard drive ending up in that water.

Fact: water damage to a hard drive is one of the least effective methods for hard drive destruction.

Fact: if water is used for destruction then time is needed for the components to corrode.

Fact: throwing the hard drive where it was eventually found did not guarantee it not being detected earlier

Fact: Gricar purchased Windows Washer software to erase the hard drive clean of personal data and/or work notes.

Fact: in 2004 a new home computer was purchased and the laptop was in the closet not being used.

Fact: today when I did a search on destruction of a hard drive almost all the terms mentioned came up in the results.

Fact: there were several bodies of water on the way to Lewisburg that would've been better locations for non-detection.

Fact: water is wet, sky is blue, and women have secrets

 

[SuperSmith]

The police said specifically it was RFG, not just "someone." They could have the actual times the searches were done.

I think the idea of some second party surreptitiously sneaking into RFG's house and doing computer searches is stretching things beyond the breaking point.

And yet YOU believe Ray Gricar would pull a Mel Wiley just because he showed passing interest in the case.

And yet you believe Jonathan Luna committed suicide.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Fact: water damage to a hard drive is one of the least effective method for hard drive destruction.

Fact: if water is used for destruction then time is needed for the component to corrode.

Fact: throwing the hard drive where it was eventually found did not guarantee it being detected earlier

Fact: It would be very unlikely for the drive to be found where it was, even if the laptop was found in the first days of the search. It could not have been thrown from the same spot as the laptop.

Fact: Gricar purchased Windows Washer software to erase the hard drive clean of personal data and/or work notes.

While is is a fact that acquired the software, we don't know what he planned or did use it on. We don't know what he wanted to erase.

Fact: in 2004 a new home computer was purchased and the laptop was in the closet not being used.

We don't know if RFG did use it at some point(s) after that, only that he didn't use it openly.

Fact: today when I did a search on destruction of a hard drive almost all the terms mentioned came up in the results.

Which could be how RFG got the terms to put into the search engine.

Fact: water is wet, sky is blue, and women have secrets

Secrets are not gender specific. RFG was a man with a few secrets.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

And yet YOU believe Ray Gricar would pull a Mel Wiley just because he showed passing interest in the case.

And yet you believe Jonathan Luna committed suicide.

We know that RFG did have an interest in the walkaway case of then Hinckley Township Ohio's police chief Mel Wiley. http://z10.invisionfree.com/usedtobedoe/index.php?showtopic=2226 I find the timing of his interest, years after the disappearance, more telling. http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/22/2397093/wiley-and-gricar-the-timing.html

If RFG was talking about it with staff around the time it happened, 1985, I would not find it strange. He was talking about it at least seven years later. The case occurred about 6 years after RFG moved to PA and had no ties to Centre County.

There is a Luna thread and it has no tie to this case.

In short, no, I do not thing anyone sneaked into RFG's house to do searches on the computer.

 

[SuperSmith]

One key to the case in my opinion is the cigarette ash left in the Mini.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One key to the case in my opinion is the cigarette ash left in the Mini.

It means that someone, in close proximity to the passenger seat was smoking.

1. It could be someone that helped RFG leave (inclusive of RFG).

2. It could been someone that was involved in an act of foul play against RFG.

3. It just could have been someone who leaned in to ask him a question, though I think that is unlikely.