PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[SuperSmith]

Please help solve the case of Ray F. Gricar who went "missing" 4/15/2005.

Ray was a great prosecutor, an ethical man, and good father. He deserves justice and closure for his family/friends in his case. Mr. Gricar fought for justice for all his life and served as District Attorney in Centre County for almost 20 years.

Let's join together to find the answers! :websleuther:

 

[SuperSmith]

Ray Gricar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[SuperSmith]

I believe Ray Gricar fell victim to foul play and that most likely it was job related.

 

[SuperSmith]

This lengthy piece was done one of Ray Gricar's Assistant District Attorney's that he worked with for a long time. Her account should raise some eyebrows.

https://sites.google.com/site/gricardisappearance/

 

[SuperSmith]

This website provides some excellent photos, timeline, articles, history, and maps.

https://sites.google.com/site/raygricar/home

 

[SuperSmith]

I believe Ray's perpetrators separated his hard drive from his laptop and tossed it in the river but only after the initial river searches were done.

Cigarette ash found on the passenger side floor indicates someone foreign entered Ray's Mini Cooper. Ray Gricar hated cigarettes and it has been said by many that he would never allow anyone into his car that was smoking.

 

[SuperSmith]

Ray was only 8.5 months away from retirement. He wanted to travel with his girlfriend hitting the state parks, driving across the U.S., and ending up in Washington where is daughter is. Ray was robbed of this. Ray was robbed of his daughters graduation, the fruits of retirement, the much deserved relaxation, the no alarm clock life. He had a nice pension in place to live comfortably and do the things he wanted. He was robbed of seeing his only daughter marry. Ray Gricar deserved better.

This is why I am here and pray for a resolution to his case....

 

[Kimster]

This thread is back by popular demand.

Before you post on this thread, know these rules:

1) Do not personalize your posts. An easy way to keep from doing that is to leave the word "you" out of your posts and to make sure you are focused on this case and not each other

2) Ray Gricar is a victim in this case and we need to remember to be respectful about his character. Was he the perfect man? Of course not - no one is perfect! But if you feel that he made some negative choices which led to his disappearance, we're going to want a MSM link every single time you make such a claim. Not a blog - MSM!

3) Any alerts that are bossy toward the mods, are rude, or are not alerting about any rule infractions can land you a time out. The alerts in this case are over the top and will not be tolerated if they are unwarranted. If you disagree with another's opinion of the case, link up and show the other side your views - do NOT expect a mod to come in here and do that for you. If someone is being rude to another poster, you are welcome to alert but you better make sure it's clear that it is a rules infraction. Here's a link to the rules so you can make sure the problem is listed before you alert: Rules Etiquette & Information - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Before this thread will be opened, I will need to see who has read and acknowledged this post, so thank this post. The sooner I see who has thanked it, the sooner the thread will reopen.


:seeya:

 

[Kimster]

We're back in business. Remember to keep the Christmas spirit and there won't be any more interruptions. :kimsterwink:

http://images.elephantjournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/whoville.jpg

 

[SuperSmith]

First and foremost I'd like to wish everyone at Websleuths a Merry Christmas.

Sadly, it will be another holiday season that Lara Gricar will not get to spend with her father and another for Patty Fornicola as well. It's easy to take a lot of things for granted and I can't imagine the pain they must still feel every day but especially at this time of year.

Differences aside I hope and pray we all can work together to find that one piece of the puzzle that has eluded many to help bring a resolution to this case.

Thank you to all the posters, admins, & moderators here at WS.

:santahat:

 

[SuperSmith]

I tend to believe that on 4/15/2005 Ray Gricar did go for a leisurely drive. It has been documented he liked to do that to relieve stress. With the reports that he was sleeping more, being very busy at work, and the specific route he was on (192) can help support that as an accurate report.

I myself have taken off for a leisurely drive. I like to drive, I like the mountains, the forests, the parks, etc. On a Spring day it is especially nice as winters always seem to drag. (Spring Fever)

No reported agenda was given by Ray, LE, PF, or family as to what Ray set out to do that day. That is not unusual either because he may not have had an agenda.

You're tired, you've been busy at work, retirement is approaching, it's a Friday, a lot of co-workers are out that Friday, it's a Spring day. Eh, I think I will take the day off, sleep in a bit, and head out for a drive.

I find nothing suspicious about this at all.

The 11:15am call to the DA office by Ray was fielded by his girlfriend Patty. Ray indicated he was on 192 and that he wouldn't be back in time to let the dog out. If we assume his destination was Lewisburg than he was roughly halfway there putting him (with no stops) in Lewisburg by 11:45 am roughly. I imagine he would've wanted to be back home by 5:00 (when Patty got off work) so they could go out that night. It has been reported that Patty & Ray always went to the Gamble Inn Friday nights.

He would've had to leave Lewisburg by 3:30PM (no later than 3:45PM) to make it back home. That leaves a time frame of 11:45am - 3:45pm. These 4 hours are the mystery in my opinion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If this was just a drive, then foul play should really be off the table.

It is virtually impossible for someone to have followed RFG from Bellefonte to Lewisburg, a 50 mile trip with basically four routes (the 4th through Milesburg), without RFG realizing it. Then the person following him would have had to have followed him around for a few hours in Lewisburg after that.

Looking at the area LE searched, and that cell "towers," plural, carried the call, RFG was extremely close to Centre Hall when he made the call. While there is a concentration of cell towers around Centre Hall, there is only one more easterly, until he would get outside of Lewisburg.

LE, based on that call, searched both Route 192 and Route 45. They meet at Centre Hall (192 starts there). If he could be determined to be specifically on 192, they wouldn't have needed to check 45.

It also does not explain the map to Lewisburg found on his office computer.

If this was a planned trip, the questions raised would be why he took this drive, into another media market, and didn't tell anyone where he was going. If it was job related, the questions would be why he told everyone he was playing "hooky," and why there were no notes about what he would be doing, i.e. case notes. A job related trip, in such circumstances, would be very suspicious, but a personal one less so.

 

[SuperSmith]

:angel:

If this was just a drive, then foul play should really be off the table.

It is virtually impossible for someone to have followed RFG from Bellefonte to Lewisburg, a 50 mile trip with basically four routes (the 4th through Milesburg), without RFG realizing it. Then the person following him would have had to have followed him around for a few hours in Lewisburg after that.

Looking at the area LE searched, and that cell "towers," plural, carried the call, RFG was extremely close to Centre Hall when he made the call. While there is a concentration of cell towers around Centre Hall, there is only one more easterly, until he would get outside of Lewisburg.

LE, based on that call, searched both Route 192 and Route 45. They meet at Centre Hall (192 starts there). If he could be determined to be specifically on 192, they wouldn't have needed to check 45.

It also does not explain the map to Lewisburg found on his office computer.

If this was a planned trip, the questions raised would be why he took this drive, into another media market, and didn't tell anyone where he was going. If it was job related, the questions would be why he told everyone he was playing "hooky," and why there were no notes about what he would be doing, i.e. case notes. A job related trip, in such circumstances, would be very suspicious, but a personal one less so.

Wish someone could instruct me how to multi-quote :blushing:

I respectfully disagree. I do not think just because it may had been, exactly what was reported, that a leisurely drive eliminates foul play in any way. In fact it presented opportunity. RG was alone, on a rural, less traveled road, with limited cellphone service, with multiple locations to have been kidnapped.

Have you ever been driving in a rural area and the same car has been behind for what seems like forever? It seems suspicious but you just keep driving and eventually they turn off and you feel silly for thinking they were following you? I can only speak for myself when I say that kind of thing happens.

I, still cannot put 100% belief in RG actually making it to Lewisburg.

LE, air searchers could have just been thorough. In the air you can cover a lot more territory.

The Map generated in his office could have been for the benefit of a friend, a coworker, a curiosity of RG's, and could have been generated at anytime. If it was a more recent map perhaps he wanted to see how long it takes to get there so he could beat that time. Who knows? The possibilities are endless. Surely if he was planning to disappear he wouldn't leave such an obvious piece of evidence that he knew LE would find. This is why I don't put too much needing an explanation for that.

Like I said a nice Spring Day, Friday, and taking an enjoyable drive doesn't seem out of the ordinary.

I can envision your point of view and thank you for your thoughts.

 

[Kimster]

To multi-quote, use the little icon to the right of the button that says "Quote".

 

[SuperSmith]

To multi-quote, use the little icon to the right of the button that says "Quote".

I have clicked that quotations mark before but was wondering how to multi-quote a single post with several paragraphs. I assume I can copy/paste "

" for each paragraph.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped

:angel:

Wish someone could instruct me how to multi-quote :blushing:

I respectfully disagree. I do not think just because it may had been, exactly what was reported, that a leisurely drive eliminates foul play in any way. In fact it presented opportunity. RG was alone, on a rural, less traveled road, with limited cellphone service, with multiple locations to have been kidnapped.

Have you ever been driving in a rural area and the same car has been behind for what seems like forever? It seems suspicious but you just keep driving and eventually they turn off and you feel silly for thinking they were following you? I can only speak for myself when I say that kind of thing happens.

Yes, I actually learned to drive on remote county roads, so I am passingly familiar with the traffic patterns. The key is that RFG made a number of turns from his residence. Assume that someone was following him from the area around his house and that RFG crossed Bellefonte via Bishop Street. Just to get to Centre Hall, he'd need to make three turns (r. on 220, l. on 26, l. 144 (or Harrison Road). That just gets him to 192.

After three turns, he should notice someone following him, especially after he makes the fourth turn onto 192.

The evidence puts him in Lewisburg, witnesses, the scent, the Mini, after about Noon on 4/15/05 and no evidence indicates that his car was forced off the road on the way to Lewisburg. There were not mud splatters nor leaf fragments.

I, still cannot put 100% belief in RG actually making it to Lewisburg.

There is simply too much evidence that puts him there on 4/15 for me to seriously question that.

LE, air searchers could have just been thorough. In the air you can cover a lot more territory.

Primarily. The air searches of 192/45 were started in the morning of 4/16 and I think there was only one flyover after that. The car was spotted at about 6:30 PM

The Map generated in his office could have been for the benefit of a friend, a coworker, a curiosity of RG's, and could have been generated at anytime. If it was a more recent map perhaps he wanted to see how long it takes to get there so he could beat that time. Who knows? The possibilities are endless. Surely if he was planning to disappear he wouldn't leave such an obvious piece of evidence that he knew LE would find. This is why I don't put too much needing an explanation for that.

The map was discovered early one, I think during the weekend of 4/16. That would indicate it was recent. If he wanted to check the time, and leave the car behind (it belonged to PEF), it wouldn't make too much of a difference. It would have been possible that the car would be discovered prior to the map being discovered.

The map to Lewisburg does strongly point to RFG planning to go to Lewisburg.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

You can use these tags enclosed in brackets [ ] quote and /quote.

I actually cannot quote the original message.

 

[Trackergd]

I am firmly in the "He was in Lewisburg camp". Too much circumstantial and physical evidence. For him not to have been there would suggest it was one heck of an organized and pre-planned "red herring" by unknown actors.

 

[SuperSmith]

You can use these tags enclosed in brackets [ ] quote and /quote.

I actually cannot quote the original message.

Thank you. I was wondering how you did the breakdown in way of your responses to each paragraph.

 

[Kimster]

OH! You mean break down one post? That button only works for multi-posts. Yes, you would have to use the HTML that JJ described. I didn't understand what task you were trying to perform. :yow: