PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #12

[J. J. in Phila]

Cadaver Dogs are a specialized air scent dog. As long as the scent is carried on the wind in their general direction, coming up out of the water or ground as they travel over it as decomp gasses, then they should detect it. If the remains are a distance away and the wind blowing in the wrong direction, probably not.

Getting the surface wind direction would be impossible. The winds shifted a lot during 4/21-4/22. There were periods of calm as well.

It would be possible that, it there was a body in the wooded or wetlands area across the river, the scent might not have reached the dog.

BTW, when I look at weather at the time, I check Weatherunderground here: http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KSEG/2013/12/21/DailyHistory.html

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I looked at the wind direction for most of the week(4/21-4/24); they have a breakdown for it hourly. Only one hour during that time was the wind blowing from due east; there was some times it was out of the north or south east.

If RFG's remains were east of Lewisburg, the dog could have easily not picked up the scent.

 

[SuperSmith]

I wonder why/what made a Hell's Angels ranking officer a person of interest in Ray Gricar's case. The HA's are known to run drugs and I wonder if that in some way ties to the "Big" heroin bust in March 2005, that RG was part of the press conference.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I wonder why/what made a Hell's Angels ranking officer a person of interest in Ray Gricar's case. The HA's are known to run drugs and I wonder if that in some way ties to the "Big" heroin bust in March 2005, that RG was part of the press conference.

I'm not sure that he was a "person of interest." The informant was what attracted the attention of LE.

The 2005 Taji "Verbal" Lee drug ring had no ties to the HA, and RFG was not handling the case.

 

[SuperSmith]

"The man who made the claim to investigators earlier this year contacted the Altoona Mirror in May and said he has been a person of interest in the case because he was a ranking officer in the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club."

"The source told the Mirror he wanted to put to rest speculation, and the FBI's scrutiny of him, by telling the story of what happened to Gricar. But he said he wouldn't incriminate himself or other Hells Angels in the process."

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/c...Police-probe-claim-Gricar-killed.html?nav=742

 

[J. J. in Phila]

"The man who made the claim to investigators earlier this year contacted the Altoona Mirror in May and said he has been a person of interest in the case because he was a ranking officer in the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club."

"The source told the Mirror he wanted to put to rest speculation, and the FBI's scrutiny of him, by telling the story of what happened to Gricar. But he said he wouldn't incriminate himself or other Hells Angels in the process."

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/c...Police-probe-claim-Gricar-killed.html?nav=742

The man said he was a "person of interest," but LE didn't. LE does check out various people, including me. They did check his story, and ruled it out.

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/575024.html

http://www.tribune-democrat.com/x13...that-a-Hells-Angel-killed-Ray-Gricar-are-bunk

 

[SuperSmith]

There's a 1 percent chance a former Hells Angel is behind the murder of former Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar, Bellefonte police Chief Shawn Weaver said.

"We looked into the claim thoroughly, and there may be some loose ends, but at this point, it is unsubstantiated," Weaver said Saturday of a claim followed up on by the FBI earlier this year.

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/575024.html

Investigators, including the FBI, are looking into a claim that missing former Centre County District Attorney Ray Gricar was murdered by a former Hells Angel, according to Bellefonte police.

"It's ongoing," Bellefonte police Detective Matthew Rickard said Thursday of the investigation into the claim.

Rickard said more interviews needed to be conducted, and he hadn't been briefed by the FBI as to the current status of the probe.

The FBI did not return calls about the case, but Rickard acknowledged the FBI had talked with the source and was following up on his story.

http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/c...Police-probe-claim-Gricar-killed.html?nav=742


I think it can be determined that the FBI is still investigating this and the fact that Rickard was not briefed by the FBI as to the status and that Weaver has said "at this point it is unsubstantiated", reveals this is still an active avenue until the FBI says its not.........and not Weaver. Weaver can "doubt" all he wants. The FBI is driving this lead.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped

I think it can be determined that the FBI is still investigating this and the fact that Rickard was not briefed by the FBI as to the status and that Weaver has said "at this point it is unsubstantiated", reveals this is still an active avenue until the FBI says its not.........and not Weaver. Weaver can "doubt" all he wants. The FBI is driving this lead.

I believe that the Chief of Police is in a position to know, and that Rickard was properly waiting for the comment to come from the Chief, for a variety of reasons.

 

[SuperSmith]

Snipped



I believe that the Chief of Police is in a position to know, and that Rickard was properly waiting for the comment to come from the Chief, for a variety of reasons.

Then Rickard should've said "no comment" or "I am not privy to talk about that."

Perhaps your right OR perhaps Weaver is just keeping the media at bay until it is fully checked out or the FBI gives them a status update.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Then Rickard should've said "no comment" or "I am not privy to talk about that."

Perhaps your right OR perhaps Weaver is just keeping the media at bay until it is fully checked out or the FBI gives them a status update.

I did not say he was not "privy" to anything. I said that the comment was properly coming from Chief Weaver and Det. Rickard did not step on his toes.

This has more to do with the internal dynamics of the investigation that it does with the information.

 

[SuperSmith]

I did not say he was not "privy" to anything. I said that the comment was properly coming from Chief Weaver and Det. Rickard did not step on his toes.

This has more to do with the internal dynamics of the investigation that it does with the information.

If Rickard was waiting for Weaver to make the final say then I don't believe Rickard would've been saying things like "its on-going" & "FBI is following up", etc. He WOULD or SHOULD have said "I cannot talk about that aspect of the investigation". "Ask my Chief". He did not do that so I can't agree with your analysis.

The Hells Angel angle is still very much active in my opinion.

 

[SuperSmith]

I've scoured the missing persons cases here on this site to find some common dominators with RG's. I've found none.

In most of the cases there are indicators or circumstances that could contribute to them being suicidal or having the desire to walk away from their lives.

I see no indicators of the sort with Ray Gricar's case. Seems he had a very rewarding life with the bigger rewards coming in 8 short months till his retirement.

I believe someone stole Gricar's life because he was just doing his job.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

If Rickard was waiting for Weaver to make the final say then I don't believe Rickard would've been saying things like "its on-going" & "FBI is following up", etc. He WOULD or SHOULD have said "I cannot talk about that aspect of the investigation". "Ask my Chief". He did not do that so I can't agree with your analysis.

The Hells Angel angle is still very much active in my opinion.

No, I do not believe that Richard would have said anything except noncommittal answers. Look at who is actually giving the details of what was done, Chief Weaver.

It might be interesting to ask why Weaver is suddenly speaking on the case. That is a different role. perhaps a changing one.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I've scoured the missing persons cases here on this site to find some common dominators with RG's. I've found none.

In most of the cases there are indicators or circumstances that could contribute to them being suicidal or having the desire to walk away from their lives.

I see no indicators of the sort with Ray Gricar's case. Seems he had a very rewarding life with the bigger rewards coming in 8 short months till his retirement.

I believe someone stole Gricar's life because he was just doing his job.

Well, there are "indicators," as it were. The discussion about Mel Wiley would be one example. We could also regard 20/20 Vision as an "indicator."

Putting the Mini in PEF's name could be an "indicator" for walk away or suicide, as could all the financial situation. Likewise so could the desire to get rid of the data on the laptop.

There are various "indicators" there, that could point to RFG's disappearance being self determined. They all could be coincidental, but, if not, there are "indicators."

 

[SuperSmith]

No, I do not believe that Richard would have said anything except noncommittal answers. Look at who is actually giving the details of what was done, Chief Weaver.

It might be interesting to ask why Weaver is suddenly speaking on the case. That is a different role. perhaps a changing one.

It's clear to me who is the "LEAD" investigator in the case. Weaver is the "Chief" which is a supervisory position.

"Rickard said more interviews needed to be conducted, and he hadn't been briefed by the FBI as to the current status of the probe."

The Hell's Angel investigation is still active.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's clear to me who is the "LEAD" investigator in the case. Weaver is the "Chief" which is a supervisory position.

"Rickard said more interviews needed to be conducted, and he hadn't been briefed by the FBI as to the current status of the probe."

The Hell's Angel investigation is still active.

It is not clear to me, that, at that point, Rickard was the "lead" investigator. It was clear that on 9/20-22/13, Rickard was not giving the details of the investigation and Weaver was. Note that Weaver did not send Rickard out to explain.

 

[SuperSmith]

Well, there are "indicators," as it were. The discussion about Mel Wiley would be one example. We could also regard 20/20 Vision as an "indicator."

Putting the Mini in PEF's name could be an "indicator" for walk away or suicide, as could all the financial situation. Likewise so could the desire to get rid of the data on the laptop.

There are various "indicators" there, that could point to RFG's disappearance being self determined. They all could be coincidental, but, if not, there are "indicators."

I was talking about indicators or circumstances that would elude to committing suicide or having the need to walkaway.

Having a passing interest in another case (as we here do), gifting a car to his girlfriend, and his financial status are NOT indicators or circumstances that make you say to yourself "oh that's why he committed suicide" or "oh that's why he walked away from his life".

As I stated previously there are none in my opinion.

 

[SuperSmith]

It is not clear to me, that, at that point, Rickard was the "lead" investigator. It was clear that on 9/20-22/13, Rickard was not giving the details of the investigation and Weaver was. Note that Weaver did not send Rickard out to explain.

Are you saying you do not know who the lead detective is in Ray's case?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I was talking about indicators or circumstances that would elude to committing suicide or having the need to walkaway.

Having a passing interest in another case (as we here do), gifting a car to his girlfriend, and his financial status are NOT indicators or circumstances that make you say to yourself "oh that's why he committed suicide" or "oh that's why he walked away from his life".

As I stated previously there are none in my opinion.

Well, on that opinion, I disagree. That could indicate preparations for suicide or for voluntary departure. "Gifting" a car that he drove exclusively is unusual.

The is not "why" Gricar would do something. The question is "if" Gricar did something.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Are you saying you do not know who the lead detective is in Ray's case?

No, I am saying that I do not know if that person, as of late September 2013, is Det. Rickard. He certainly was not the person providing the information, as he usually did.