PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[SuperSmith]

I would like to know why LE broke protocol in the beginning of this investigation.

 

[wijg]

I would like to know why LE broke protocol in the beginning of this investigation.

I think they broke protocol several times. To which instance are you referring to specifically though?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I would like to know why LE broke protocol in the beginning of this investigation.

Not rhetorical, but how did LE break protocol?

The only thing I can see is they didn't wait 24-48 hours, but that was because is was someone in LE.

 

[wijg]

JJ... what do we know about Steve Sloane? (other than the fact that he was allegedly good friends with Ray)

- He was supposedly in a car accident that nearly killed him. I can't find anything in any news archives that say anything about that. I'm not saying he's lying. Just that it's odd that a guy in the prosecutor's office nearly gets killed in a wreck, and there's no news about it (that I can find, anyway).
- I've seen varying accounts of his employment history. Can we get a definite account of that?
- Was he or wasn't he addicted to pain killers? The amount of drugs with which he was caught a few years back was so small, it doesn't seem to be enough to feed an actual drug habit. And by the way, that whole case is bizarre.
- Lastly, what do we know about how he came across Gricar's dictaphone? Was it on Gricar's desk? Was it on his (Sloane's) desk? And what about the tape? Was it actually in the dictaphone? Or was it in a drawer, possibly next to the dictaphone? And if so, why was such an old tape (from Oct. '98) kept in such an easily accessible place? (my opinion is that it was recently listened to by Gricar)... also worth noting about the tape, it is said on the tape that it would be typed into a memo... yet no memo exists about the Oct 98 meeting at PSU.

I'm not thinking that Sloane is a person of interest. Rather, I think it's entirely possible that Gricar was trying to leave clues to Sloane.

 

[Trackergd]

“The probability of a certain set of circumstances coming together in a meaningful (or tragic) way is so low that it simply cannot be considered mere coincidence. ”
― V.C. King

Or as one wise investigator once noted to me, "There is no such thing as coincidence in an investigation, it is all either direct or circumstantial evidence".

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Snipped for space only.

J

- He was supposedly in a car accident that nearly killed him. I can't find anything in any news archives that say anything about that. I'm not saying he's lying. Just that it's odd that a guy in the prosecutor's office nearly gets killed in a wreck, and there's no news about it (that I can find, anyway).

He was injured , but I don't know if it was life threatening. He had a back injury.

- I've seen varying accounts of his employment history. Can we get a definite account of that?

Prior to 2010, yes.

Air Force (security or intelligence by his account) after graduating HS (Richland, Cambria County). PSU undergrad, 1985; Dickinson 1989. After passing the bar was with a private firm in Lancaster in 1990-92. Hired by RFG in 1992; served until 2010. He may have served as an adjunct professor at PSU at times.

Was definitely a close friend of RFG, probably the closest.

- Was he or wasn't he addicted to pain killers? The amount of drugs with which he was caught a few years back was so small, it doesn't seem to be enough to feed an actual drug habit. And by the way, that whole case is bizarre.

He claimed he was, due to his accident. He was arrested primarily for marijuana, which is not a pain killer as such.

- Lastly, what do we know about how he came across Gricar's dictaphone? Was it on Gricar's desk? Was it on his (Sloane's) desk? And what about the tape? Was it actually in the dictaphone? Or was it in a drawer, possibly next to the dictaphone? And if so, why was such an old tape (from Oct. '98) kept in such an easily accessible place? (my opinion is that it was recently listened to by Gricar)... also worth noting about the tape, it is said on the tape that it would be typed into a memo... yet no memo exists about the Oct 98 meeting at PSU.

I'm not thinking that Sloane is a person of interest. Rather, I think it's entirely possible that Gricar was trying to leave clues to Sloane.

He might have kept his old tapes. According to the account, the tape had other things on it. We don't know the case, but it is possible, maybe probable, that it was Sandusky. No Sandusky file.

I have heard that the OAG received something in early August of 2012 regarding the 1998 incident, after Freeh was published, about 5-6 weeks prior to Sloane being arrested. Looking at the charges and plea deal, I strongly suspect that they were used as leverage. Sloane was involved in the case in 1998, as reported in the P-N.

Though none of the PSU 3 are charged with wrongdoing in regard to 1998, the Spanier presentment spends 5 pages, the first five, recounting it.

Here is a timeline relating to that:

04/15/12: Sloane mentions the tape ot Ganim. Meeting with Schreffler, Ralston, Sloane, RFG and Ganter on 10/13/98 scheduled.

07/12/12: Freeh Report released. Sloane (later) claims to have been interviewed by Freeh, but not mentioned in the report.

10/01/12: Sloane charged for pot, pleads not guilty. Faces 7 years in jail and a $10 k fine.

11/01/12: PSU 3 indicted. "Spanier Presentment" released (also includes Curley and Schultz).

02/28/13: Ganter retires with one day's notice after 40+ years; cancels interview with Altoona Mirror scheduled for the next day.

07/23/13: Sloane changes plea to guilty, gets 7 years probation and a $200 fine.

07/30/13: PSU 3 bound over for trial (as expected).

 

[wijg]

Thanks JJ. I appreciate the info.

So the one guy - literally maybe the only guy - who could blow a hole in the entire Freeh Report was arrested 5 weeks after its release. In a very bizarre case where someone sent him drugs. Another strange coincidence. That's the second big coincidence regarding Sloane (the first being the dictaphone and tape).

I would also add, 11/13/12... Sara Ganim, the one person who may have been looking into this whole thing, is effectively "pulled off the case" when she accepts a job with CNN. Could have been arranged by someone politically connected in order to get her to stop sniffing around Centre County.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Thanks JJ. I appreciate the info.

So the one guy - literally maybe the only guy - who could blow a hole in the entire Freeh Report was arrested 5 weeks after its release. In a very bizarre case where someone sent him drugs. Another strange coincidence. That's the second big coincidence regarding Sloane (the first being the dictaphone and tape).

I would also add, 11/13/12... Sara Ganim, the one person who may have been looking into this whole thing, is effectively "pulled off the case" when she accepts a job with CNN. Could have been arranged by someone politically connected in order to get her to stop sniffing around Centre County.

It was too late to pull Ganim off; she already had her Pultizer. It is very doubtful that anyone in PA could engineer the job at CNN.

Sloane did have personal dealing with the guy who sent them; they were Facebook friends. If LE wanted information from Sloane, or actual testimony, charging him with a crime would give them leverage. (I do suspect that he was overcharge, but even with that, the plea deal was quite generous.) It isn't the Commonwealth that has been trying to delay the case; it has been the PSU 3.

Again, I have found no connection between RFG's disappearance and the PSU scandal. This post, and Sloane's legal situation, may have more to do with the PSU scandal than the Gricar disappearance. As can be seen, the case do intersect, unfortunately, even if there is no direct connection.

 

[SuperSmith]

wijg, we can start with the BPD lead detective NOT being in charge of perhaps the biggest case in a quarter century.

Or the fact that several key people were NOT interviewed including but not limited to Steve Sloane.

Or that Fornicola was treated with kid gloves.

Or that the AG didn't want anything to do with case bit yet controlled aspects of the case.

Or why BPD led the case when the "scene" was in Lewisburg.

Or why the PSP or FBI didn't take the case from the beginning.

I can go on if u like

 

[MissJ]

My percentages have changed in lieu of current information and eyewitnesses that LE have dismissed.

95% foul play
5% forced disappearance
0% suicide

FWIW I tend to agree.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

BBM

wijg, we can start with the BPD lead detective NOT being in charge of perhaps the biggest case in a quarter century.

Or the fact that several key people were NOT interviewed including but not limited to Steve Sloane.

Or that Fornicola was treated with kid gloves.

Or that the AG didn't want anything to do with case bit yet controlled aspects of the case.

Or why BPD led the case when the "scene" was in Lewisburg.

Or why the PSP or FBI didn't take the case from the beginning.

I can go on if u like

Most of these things are not issues of protocol. They may be things that an individual poster disagrees with, but they don't represent a different handling of the case.

Of the several MP cases in the area, they have tended to be handled by the local police. The case is usually given to the police department to which it is reported to initially; in this case, the departments discussed what department should take it. The AG does not get involved. PEF was interrogated and polygraphed.

 

[SuperSmith]

Well, this wasn't a response to your post but in reply I disagree with most of what you said. Most of what I said is my opinion but that opinion is garnered from other investigators and what should have been done. BPD broke their own protocol as evidenced by Karen Arnold and since she worked hand and hand with them for 20 years I think it's say to say she knows better than you.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, this wasn't a response to your post but in reply I disagree with most of what you said. Most of what I said is my opinion but that opinion is garnered from other investigators and what should have been done. BPD broke their own protocol as evidenced by Karen Arnold and since she worked hand and hand with them for 20 years I think it's say to say she knows better than you.

She only indicated something about the dogs, IIRC. They were not on standby.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

One thing that they did do is responded when RFG had not been heard from in only about 12 hours. I would not call that a negative.

 

[SuperSmith]

No she said more JJ.

"The first is that this site is not intended to reflect a negative view of Centre County police generally or the Bellefonte Police Department specifically. I do not hold such a view. To the contrary, my experience over many years is unequivocally that the local police community consists of hard-working officers at all levels, who are tenacious and exacting in their approach, fair in their assessments, tireless in their willingness to do whatever is required to present solid and well-investigated cases, endlessly patient in dealing with daily and often volatile encounters with the public, perceptive about human nature, who exhibit consistently high levels of personal and professional integrity, maintain their sense of humor in the face of incredible frustrations, and who are very rarely ever thanked for all that they do. That is no less true of the BPD than any other department. It is precisely the high regard that I have for the entire Centre County law enforcement community that has made the conduct of this particular investigation so deeply troubling. "

 

[SuperSmith]

I don't think anyone said it was a negative but that particular thing still in itself is a protocol break.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No she said more JJ.

"The first is that this site is not intended to reflect a negative view of Centre County police generally or the Bellefonte Police Department specifically. I do not hold such a view. To the contrary, my experience over many years is unequivocally that the local police community consists of hard-working officers at all levels, who are tenacious and exacting in their approach, fair in their assessments, tireless in their willingness to do whatever is required to present solid and well-investigated cases, endlessly patient in dealing with daily and often volatile encounters with the public, perceptive about human nature, who exhibit consistently high levels of personal and professional integrity, maintain their sense of humor in the face of incredible frustrations, and who are very rarely ever thanked for all that they do. That is no less true of the BPD than any other department. It is precisely the high regard that I have for the entire Centre County law enforcement community that has made the conduct of this particular investigation so deeply troubling. "

JKA might have found some things "deeply troubling," and I might agree with her on at least one point, but that does not equate to varying from protocol.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I don't think anyone said it was a negative but that particular thing still in itself is a protocol break.

Well, it was done because of RFG's status in LE.

 

[Ozoner]

FWIW I tend to agree.

I have to disagree. Everything about this case says voluntary disappearance. What's key for me is that someone at Gricar's home performed searches on how to destroy a hard drive. My guess is that Gricar was trying to create a new identity for himself, and his hard drive contained information that could have led someone to him.
There a smaller possibility that he actually did commit suicide and that the hard drive contained information that he was ashamed to have people see after his death.
My breakdown is therefore:
Voluntary disappearance: 75%
Suicide: 25%
Foul Play: 0%

 

[Ozoner]

For RFG to walk away with enough money to live on he would have had to have a huge savings somewhere.

That isn't true.He may have had a plan for how to earn money after leaving, or he may have un away with the cooperation of someone who was prepared to support him.

It was suggested $4000. a month was not much to live on...

Who suggested that? A single person can live on half that amount without too much difficulty. I should know because I've done it. If he had plans to move into the home of a lover, he wouldn't even have needed that much.

I doubt he walked away to live in poverty. No one does that unless running from someone or something bad.

The "something bad" could be something as simple as an unfulfilling or stressful life. Or, he could have been leading a double life beforehand. Maybe he was a closeted homosexual and decided that the only way to pursue that lifestyle openly was with a new identity.