PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[wijg]

My apologies for my absence, but my phone lines were down until today.

As for the flowers, they dumped by the railroad bridge. I am not sure if RFG's favorite color was yellow, or even if he had one. Tony Gricar once mentioned that it looked a place where people tossed flowers.

If Tony doesn't see them as significant, then I don't either.

 

[Ozoner]

Retired at 50? That may be what they wanted the public to believe.

I used to work in the auto industry. It was common for people to retire at 46 or 47 if they had started working for the company at 16 or 17 (as many had) and had 30 years in.

I believe it's fairly common for cops and military people to retire in their 40s as well.

 

[Ozoner]

I've watched the 2011 Dateline program more than once. There is the possibility that if Ray Gricar was in the Susquehanna River, his body could have gone to the Fiber Dam where it would never resurface again. The churning water flows from the dam into the Chesapeake Bay.

I've seen that video, too, but the man making that statement doesn't back it up with any facts. I've looked at images of the Adam T. Bower Memorial Dam, & I see no reason why a body going over it would get torn up. I could see the churning water from a much larger waterfall or dam trapping a body on the bottom temporarily, but this dam isn't exactly Niagra Falls, so even that situation seems implausible.

According to one article, a body in a river will sink and will not rise for at least a day (and usually not that soon).* There is very little current on the bottom of a river, so a body will not go very far before it rises.

The initial search of the Susquehanna took place on 4/17, only one day after Ray Gricar disappeared. If the body had been in the river during that initial search, it almost certainly would have been close to Lewisburg and almost certainly would have been found (although it's possible that the search was inadequate). Even if it had drifted, the body would not have gone over the fiber dam before rising.

Actually, the water in the Susquehanna would have been fairly cold in mid-April—perhaps between 50 and 60 degrees F (which is where it was in that time period for 2013; I could not find 2005 data online)†—so the body would most likely have needed several days to rise. Therefore, it should have still been close to the place where it went in the water during the intensive search of the river that occurred between 4/19 and 4/21.

One can envision a scenario where the body drifted into an odd place, like under a dock or under some vegetation, but with such a thorough search, the most likely explanation for not finding the body in the river is that the body wasn't in the river to be found.

*http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire%20and%20Rescue%20Personnel/Biology%20of%20drowning.pdf

†http://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/dv?c...od=&begin_date=2013-04-01&end_date=2013-04-30

 

[SuperSmith]

He wasn't military but rather a private contractor. It is possible he was forced to retire due to his mental illness but unfortunately too little info exists.

 

[SuperSmith]

Good post

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Respectfully snipped, with no disagreement.

I've seen that video, too, but the man making that statement doesn't back it up with any facts. I've looked at images of the Adam T. Bower Memorial Dam, & I see no reason why a body going over it would get torn up. I could see the churning water from a much larger waterfall or dam trapping a body on the bottom temporarily, but this dam isn't exactly Niagra Falls, so even that situation seems implausible.

According to one article, a body in a river will sink and will not rise for at least a day (and usually not that soon).* There is very little current on the bottom of a river, so a body will not go very far before it rises.

The canvass dam can be deflated. According to Tony Gricar it was deflated on the weekend of 4/15/05. I'd assume they have logs of when it was inflated.

In 2007-08, two children went into the water and drowned. They were playing about 300-400 yards south of the highway bridge. The Susquehanna was also high at that point. Their bodies were discovered within 36 hours, about 200 yards south of where they went in. It was mentioned on a previous thread.

The search was just by boat, possibly with divers, but there was no air search.

It is hugely unlikely, though not impossible, that a body could go into a river at that point and not be recovered.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Patty had a green honda that she drove. Ray gifted the Mini to her in fear of civil prosecution and losing his assets. It is this fear that I believe explains his low asset?

RFG was covered under under the county's liability insurance for his official actions.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It's no secret that LE inquired about Rays computers almost immediately. This is when it was found that the laptop was to be missing from his home. Are we to believe it took LE 5 years to do a simple google history search on his home computer to find the search terms published in 2009? Sorry I'm not buying it.

I thnk this is a bit misleading. LE, the BPD, asked about his computers on 4/17/05. However, the searched on the home computer were not discovered by LE until 2006, around the time PSPCIA review (which night have been the people who discovered it). The BPD did not release that information until 4/15/09, though they had indicated in 2008 that RFG inquiries about ridding himself of the data on the laptop.

 

[SuperSmith]

Do you have evidence that LE discovered the searches in 2006? If not I'm going to have to contact Admin regarding your false statements.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Do you have evidence that LE discovered the searches in 2006? If not I'm going to have to contact Admin regarding your false statements.

Yes. Daily Collegian, 4/16/09 http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_c16cab5f-9a0b-5d63-9449-3ce07870ed0d.html

The article was published on 4/16/05 and it says it was discovered 2 1/2 years before. That would put it the Fall of 2006, which is contemporaneous with the PSP-CIA review.

 

[MissJ]

Roy Gricar worked at Wright Pat when my ex did. There were a lot of top secret issues going on. That doesn't mean he knew anything or was discharged because of it but it does call into question whether he committed suicide. A lot of erroneous statements about Roy have been made including where he actually lived. He actually lived in Fairborn Ohio. Media apparently reported he lived in Hamilton, more than an hour and a half (if not more) away.

 

[SuperSmith]

Thank you

 

[SuperSmith]

Very interesting

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Roy Gricar worked at Wright Pat when my ex did. There were a lot of top secret issues going on. That doesn't mean he knew anything or was discharged because of it but it does call into question whether he committed suicide. A lot of erroneous statements about Roy have been made including where he actually lived. He actually lived in Fairborn Ohio. Media apparently reported he lived in Hamilton, more than an hour and a half (if not more) away.

The car was found in Hamilton and that was believed to be site where he jumped.

 

[MissJ]

The car was found in Hamilton and that was believed to be site where he jumped.

I found media sites that say otherwise. It depends on what you want to believe.

 

[MissJ]

Gregg Doyel reports Roy Gricar died outside Dayton Ohio. The Community Family Project reports Roy died in (the Great Miami in) Dayton Ohio Montgomery county May 10th 1996.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I found media sites that say otherwise. It depends on what you want to believe.

It could be some out there, but I don't recall any saying that Roy was from Hamilton.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Gregg Doyel reports Roy Gricar died outside Dayton Ohio. The Community Family Project reports Roy died in (the Great Miami in) Dayton Ohio Montgomery county May 10th 1996.

That would be, broadly, outside of Dayton.

 

[MissJ]

That would be, broadly, outside of Dayton.

No one would refer to Hamilton as outside Dayton. It is near Cincinnati. Not in Montgomery county at all. I lived in the general area of Dayton for years.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No one would refer to Hamilton as outside Dayton. It is near Cincinnati. Not in Montgomery county at all. I lived in the general area of Dayton for years.

According to one source, Roy lived in West Chester, OH. I've always heard them refer to that as being in the Dayton area, even though it is closer to Cincinnati, even by the family. Sometimes the population might be culturally tied to one large city.