PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #14

[J. J. in Phila]

And of course you, among others, assume it was Gricar driving the Mini at that point. It is possible that by gun point or other threat that he was forced to make that call.

It is a bit unlikely that it was a threat from someone in the car. He could could have either jumped out when he slowed for a turn or ran the car into something on the passenger side. Further, what is the person going to do, shoot the driver?

 

[wijg]

It was in a blog, but it was undisclosed in the press (though it was hinted at for a few years).

It was "in a blog"? Whose blog? Your blog? Unless it's a blog run by someone that was part of the investigation, that is NOT evidence that should be asserted as fact.

 

[SuperSmith]

What blog? Yours? Even so w/o a reference we are forced to believe everything you say as you continue to put worth posts as fact. Since you do not have proof of an eyewitness seeing Gricar with the laptop and the fact that eyewitnesses are unreliable to begin with I find it irresponsible to believe in your post. Just my opinion.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

It was "in a blog"? Whose blog? Your blog? Unless it's a blog run by someone that was part of the investigation, that is NOT evidence that should be asserted as fact.

It was hinted at in the old Just Gricar blog and in a story from late October 2005.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

What blog? Yours? Even so w/o a reference we are forced to believe everything you say as you continue to put worth posts as fact. Since you do not have proof of an eyewitness seeing Gricar with the laptop and the fact that eyewitnesses are unreliable to begin with I find it irresponsible to believe in your post. Just my opinion.

We have discussed this before on this very thread. It was included in a blog I wrote, because I had a source. It was also referenced in "Just Gricar," which said "“To my knowledge, none of the witnesses said they saw him holding a laptop outside of his car.“ That was 02/05/09. Note the word "outside."

It was also included in a story in the CDT on 10/29/05 where DZ said that, “He [RFG] made a conscious decision to go upstairs, take the laptop out of the case, get into his car and leave."

I think it would be irresponsible to ignore those references, made over the course of 9 years.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well I'm glad you only find it a "bit" unlikely. That means the percentages are favorable for that scenario.

If somebody wants to suggest that a brilliant murderer would concoct a plan where, as a passenger. would shoot the driver of a moving car, be my guest. It would be a silly thing to do, because the passenger could not gain control of the moving car.

 

[MissJ]

Too much misinformation about this case. Sources should be identified. Not hinted at. JMO.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Too much misinformation about this case. Sources should be identified. Not hinted at. JMO.

Well, some of the stuff is from sources that ultimately come from LE. Newspapers and LE, as can be seen, do the same thing.

For example, DZ knew that was RFG who took the laptop with him. How did he know that? He didn't say, but yet he knew it. This is how he knew it.

 

[MissJ]

I'm still waiting for the source of Roy's car being found in Hamilton Ohio as opposed to MSM sources that say Dayton Ohio.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm still waiting for the source of Roy's car being found in Hamilton Ohio as opposed to MSM sources that say Dayton Ohio.

That was posted, and people are free to use Google maps to find the location where there is a park, and a railroad bridge near a highway bridge. No spot in Dayton meets the criteria, that I can find. The closest is Hamilton. If you can find another spot closer to Dayton that does fit the criteria, please do so.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I will add that there are two bridges near Hamilton, one about a mile north. Tony Gricar, however, noted that Lewisburg was much more bucolic. The northern most bridge opens up on fields, so I suspect the southern one, which goes right into Hamilton.

 

[wijg]

That was posted, and people are free to use Google maps to find the location where there is a park, and a railroad bridge near a highway bridge. No spot in Dayton meets the criteria, that I can find. The closest is Hamilton. If you can find another spot closer to Dayton that does fit the criteria, please do so.

Google "rice field miamisburg oh"

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Not a "park" but a sports area. This was, according to Tony, a "park." Further, a ball field would not match Lewisburg. Also, not a built up area. (I did try to find another location.)

I'll add that even this is outside of Dayton.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

There is another possibility. TG may not have been accurate in the description of his father's suicide.

 

[wijg]

Not a "park" but a sports area. This was, according to Tony, a "park." Further, a ball field would not match Lewisburg. Also, not a built up area. (I did try to find another location.)

I'll add that even this is outside of Dayton.

Where I'm from, ball park/ball field/park are interchangeable terms.

And Miamisburg is less than 10 miles from downtown Dayton. Explore the map a little more, and you'll see "Dayton Mall" and "Dayton-Wright Brothers Airport". I grew up less than an hour from Miamisburg, and know dozens of people from there, and they consider themselves to be part of Dayton. It's in the same county (Montgomery County), which also happens to be listed as the county where Roy Gricar died. And Miamisburg is plenty "built up" as an area, especially by Ohio standards. Probably more so built up than West Chester, OH was at that point, which is important, because that would affect the context with which TG viewed the area.

 

[MissJ]

Miamisburg is considered "outside of Dayton" whereas no one would consider Hamilton as outside Dayton Metropolitan area. No one who ever knew anything about Ohio would call Hamilton such. You'd get laughed out of the state.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Where I'm from, ball park/ball field/park are interchangeable terms.

And Miamisburg is less than 10 miles from downtown Dayton. Explore the map a little more, and you'll see "Dayton Mall" and "Dayton-Wright Brothers Airport". I grew up less than an hour from Miamisburg, and know dozens of people from there, and they consider themselves to be part of Dayton. It's in the same county (Montgomery County), which also happens to be listed as the county where Roy Gricar died. And Miamisburg is plenty "built up" as an area, especially by Ohio standards. Probably more so built up than West Chester, OH was at that point, which is important, because that would affect the context with which TG viewed the area.

Miamisburg might be, but this was outside of the town. TG has maintained that the site was similar to Lewisburg, but that the location was more built up. That site looks out onto fields and a sewage treatment plant. Lewisburg borders the river in the area of the bridge, and there isn't even a group of houses near the Miamisburg bridge. The railroad bridge is further away and currently has no sides, like the bridge in Lewisburg.

If it is the location, they are increasingly dissimilar.

I will concede that TG's description may have been inaccurate

I have never heard a ball field referred to as a "park." A "ballpark," yes, but not a park.

 

[wijg]

We know for a fact Montgomery County is listed as the place of death. We know for a fact that the Dayton Daily News was the paper of record that reported Roy's disappearance and death. We know that the area - while not Dayton proper - was "just outside Dayton".

And my knowledge of the area says the descriptions by TG fit Miamisburg, or somewhere nearby.

Also, if you do a whitepages.com search of TG, it lists Miamisburg, OH under "previous locations".

I have no idea where you got the idea of Hamilton, OH from. But its not consistent with the facts. Yes, there may be areas in Hamilton matching TG's description to a certain degree, but those areas are inconsistent with the facts, not the least of which is that Roy died in MONTGOMERY COUNTY.

 

[wijg]

a collection of fields is often referred to as a "park". Especially one with a riverside setting and a walking/biking/jogging path right next to it.

I grew up playing select ball in this area. I've played at many places like this that were referred to as "parks". Also, the fields look relatively new. It's possible in 1996 - perhaps even likely - that it wasn't just baseball fields, but maybe a ballfield, a soccer field, and some playground equipment. The Community Park just to the north underwent similar renovations after the summer of - you guessed it - 1996.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

TG referred to it as a "park," and talked about how "eerily" similar it was to Lewisburg. Well, a collection of ball fields is not similar, at all, to the bridge in Lewisburg. There is a town in Lewisburg, building, houses, streets. The area around Rice Field has two houses on one side and what looks like a sewage treatment plant on the other. Yet, again according to TG, Lewisburg was less built up than the site of Roy's suicide.

BTW, they actually call it a field, not a "park."

Now, as I said, it is possible that TG's description is wrong and that they are not similar at all (or any more than having a bridge over a river). If so, that would change things. Someone trying to stage a suicide could not get the right location just looking at maps and aerial photos.