PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

[SeekingJana]

A few problems I have with " a weekend of fun but had a heart attack in the midst of the tryst":

1) While I can definitely see why he might want and need a change from ( IMO) plain and mousy Patti F., he wasn't married to her. He had no need for secrecy.

2) Would Ray Gricar have a tryst with a married woman? I don't think so. If he did, she was the one who had to answer to someone else for her actions and potential inactions. So where is his impetus for secrecy?

3) Would RG have a tryst at a B and B, for example, with a sociopath? Because only a sociopath ( and a strong-bodied one at that) would either walk out on an ill or possibly dying man, not do CPR, and. or dispose of the body and metal items in his possession which wouldn't disintegrate over time.

Nope, not buying it. And if he had a fatal MI and died alone, his body would have been found, I think.

I can't think of ANY scenario involving a non-criminal S.O. which does not involving summoning help for him, regardless of the woman's own circumstances., And YES, I speak from personal experience... When you care enough about someone to be their lover, you care enough to call 911.

As for murder, I can't come up with ONE scenario in which a DA with RG's experience could be " lured" to his death. Not ONE. Not from an informant, not from an acquaintance.

I've known people in positions higher up than his..
Here's what I know to be true of people who know their job is not exactly a people- pleasing one: They tend to choose to sit in locations in restaurants where they can see who comes and goes.. A hotel room has to be on a ground floor or one floor up, with working windows OR a second means of ingress and egress like a patio. The second door is secured with an easily removable wedge. They are always, ALWAYS careful about what they say that is self- revealing, usually preferring to say something like " Live in the moment" instead of giving a lot of personal history or family details.... They look in their car mirrors and take a few unnecessary turns to make sure they aren't being followed, and they stop and listen for footsteps behind them that stop soon after theirs do... I once dated a member of state LE who was undercover as an FBI informant. He is deceased now of natural causes so I can say this. I was remembering how naturally cautious he was. It was INSTINCT after a period of years just from being in LE.
I am now friends with his younger sister through Facebook and am learning ALL kinds of interesting facts about his core family that he never ever revealed to me in 5+ years.

IMO, if Ray Gricar was murdered, it was a clean shot from a hit man. The question is where did this occur?

IF he is dead, I tend to believe he did get out of the USA or at least out of PA to the location of his choice, and most likely died in an accident or from natural causes since then. Since I believe he would have fake ID, he would be among the UID.

One thing that I've never seen discussed... As far as we know, RG is not in any type of government protection program. As far as we know, there is no reason for it.
Some people turn to religion in times of personal stress. Is there any chance that he joined some religious order which is segregated from society? ( I had almost rather be dead, but he seems to have been a rather austere type of person, and he did walk away from his computer, his car and his cell phone, all the modern trappings of society) .. Could what was LEFT BEHIND be a clue ??

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I believe sometime before 10:45 on 4/16/05 he made a public statement that nobody at the SOS saw or knew anything. I didn't mean to insinuate he was advertising a murder or suicide....

No, I tracked the story. C. B. reported the 4/16 sighting on 4/16. The story was carried by the press at 10:45 PM on that day, so he made the statement before that point. They only discovered the car at 6:30 PM on 4/16. He made that statement that he saw RFG between 6:30 PM and 10:45 PM, then the story ran. It would have taken at least a few minutes for the reporter to write the story, so it is probably within about a 4 hour period.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

A few problems I have with " a weekend of fun but had a heart attack in the midst of the tryst":

1) While I can definitely see why he might want and need a change from ( IMO) plain and mousy Patti F., he wasn't married to her. He had no need for secrecy.

2) Would Ray Gricar have a tryst with a married woman? I don't think so. If he did, she was the one who had to answer to someone else for her actions and potential inactions. So where is his impetus for secrecy?

What if the other person felt a need to keep it private.

3) Would RG have a tryst at a B and B, for example, with a sociopath? Because only a sociopath ( and a strong-bodied one at that) would either walk out on an ill or possibly dying man, not do CPR, and. or dispose of the body and metal items in his possession which wouldn't disintegrate over time.

See above. It's called a Nelson Rockefeller scenario. I can't rule it out.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

No, I tracked the story. C. B. reported the 4/16 sighting on 4/16. The story was carried by the press at 10:45 PM on that day, so he made the statement before that point. They only discovered the car at 6:30 PM on 4/16. He made that statement that he saw RFG between 6:30 PM and 10:45 PM, then the story ran. It would have taken at least a few minutes for the reporter to write the story, so it is probably within about a 4 hour period.

Here is the link to the story, which was saved on Free Republic: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1385294/posts

The key line is:

The owner of an antiques store across the street said Gricar may have been in his shop earlier in the day [4/16/05], Dixon said.

The original story was published on 11:45 PM (sorry, I was hour off) and posted on the Free Republic board on just before 12:30 AM on 4/17.

He actually was not the first witness to report.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

I have come across a name that RFG had a possible connection to, that of Jack Harclerode, the retired Bucknell professor. Ray Gricar was supposedly doing an investigation on him. Anyone have information about this connection ? Geesh, the more I read about Lewisburg, the creepier I feel ... like a good place to stay away from !!! Sorry to those of you from there, but is that some "haven" for these Pedos ? Let alone there being the Federal Pen...I'll save THAT one for a later Post.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I have come across a name that RFG had a possible connection to, that of Jack Harclerode, the retired Bucknell professor. Ray Gricar was supposedly doing an investigation on him. Anyone have information about this connection ? Geesh, the more I read about Lewisburg, the creepier I feel ... like a good place to stay away from !!! Sorry to those of you from there, but is that some "haven" for these Pedos ? Let alone there being the Federal Pen...I'll save THAT one for a later Post.

Central Pennsylvania seems to be turning into a Steven King novel.

He is a PSU alum, but I don't know of any connection. It would have had it involve Centre County for RFG to be involved.

 

[minazoe]

when you talk about a clean shot from a pro...there is no need to hide the body or the intention.

the Mob will hide a body, depending.

but a lone desperate person might make every effort to conceal a body...especially if he s not a stranger and could somehow and in some way be suspected...

so what is gone now?

a highly contentious threat of a prosecutor

and a laptop chock full of god knows what all...

did Patty stay at work after Ray went on his drive? I mean we know where she was, right?

 

[minazoe]

wonder if Jack H has any ties to the foundation...

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

wonder if Jack H has any ties to the foundation...

Thanks for chiming in on the Jack H thing I mentioned. From what I had read on him, he had been known to pay off one of his victims (who happened to be doing life in prison for a murder), to the tune of $25,000, as hush money. All very murky stuff. One wonders how deep this Second Mile stuff goes. Didn't mean to go 'off thread' here, just anything related to Lewisburg, I find suspect !


http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x691267398/Ex-professor-paid-25-000-to-convict-to-settle-lawsuit?keyword=topstory

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Central Pennsylvania seems to be turning into a Steven King novel.

He is a PSU alum, but I don't know of any connection. It would have had it involve Centre County for RFG to be involved.

Hmmm...PSU Alum, Jerry Sandusky...Second Mile...rich donors...Jerry Sandusky's Bucknell job offer connection...and another Pedo who seems to have money to pay off a previous victim...just trying to connect these darned dots...hmmmm...and ya never know just who you may meet down by that river, when you are out fishing ???http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x691267398/Ex-professor-paid-25-000-to-convict-to-settle-lawsuit?keyword=topstory

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Hmmm...PSU Alum, Jerry Sandusky...Second Mile...rich donors...Jerry Sandusky's Bucknell job offer connection...and another Pedo who seems to have money to pay off a previous victim...just trying to connect these darned dots...hmmmm...and ya never know just who you may meet down by that river, when you are out fishing ???http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x691267398/Ex-professor-paid-25-000-to-convict-to-settle-lawsuit?keyword=topstory

Well, when you put it that way ... .

Added: The "payout" was a settlement in a civil suit: http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x691...to-convict-to-settle-lawsuit?keyword=topstory

I found it interesting that the Union County DA indicated he spend a year looking for witnesses, and could never find any. Contrast that with RFG.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Well, when you put it that way ... .

Added: The "payout" was a settlement in a civil suit: http://dailyitem.com/0100_news/x691...to-convict-to-settle-lawsuit?keyword=topstory

I found it interesting that the Union County DA indicated he spend a year looking for witnesses, and could never find any. Contrast that with RFG.

Yes, interesting indeed. You wouldn't be talking about Buehner now, would you ? Friend of RFG and all ... and Ray Gricar DID have witnesses, and perhaps more as his investigation (or having been informed) by more allegations. The hard-drive looms large. Ut oh...gotta run, the helicopters are closing in !

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, interesting indeed. You wouldn't be talking about Buehner now, would you ? Friend of RFG and all ... and Ray Gricar DID have witnesses, and perhaps more as his investigation (or having been informed) by more allegations. The hard-drive looms large. Ut oh...gotta run, the helicopters are closing in !

Bob Buehner is the (outgoing) Montour County DA. D. Peter Johnson is the Union County DA.

DPJ spent a year looking for witnesses and couldn't find any. RFG had an admission, with four witnesses, plus Victim 6 and another victim, and did not pursue the case.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

Bob Buehner is the (outgoing) Montour County DA. D. Peter Johnson is the Union County DA.

DPJ spent a year looking for witnesses and couldn't find any. RFG had an admission, with four witnesses, plus Victim 6 and another victim, and did not pursue the case.

Yes, the missed statute/collossal error scenario that you have made. I think RFG would have still had a weak case back in those years. Look how it is today...they're going to wreak havoc on McQueary's testimony, and JS may very well 'squirm' out on this one.

Since RFG made the decision NOT to prosecute, how does that affect what happened to him, assuming there is a connection with the PSU scandal ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Yes, the missed statute/collossal error scenario that you have made. I think RFG would have still had a weak case back in those years. Look how it is today...they're going to wreak havoc on McQueary's testimony, and JS may very well 'squirm' out on this one.

One witness, no victim in the 2002 incident. You have four adult witnesses to Sandusky's statement, plus two victims in 1998.

Since RFG made the decision NOT to prosecute, how does that affect what happened to him, assuming there is a connection with the PSU scandal ?

The question might deal with the reason RFG made that decision 1998. If it was an honest mistake did he catch it. That is unlikely, since there was no file.

Was it something else.

 

[SeekingJana]

What if the other person felt a need to keep it private.



See above. It's called a Nelson Rockefeller scenario. I can't rule it out.

With all due respect, the fact that the Rockefeller situation became KNOWN proves my point!! The woman in his life called SOMEONE, she didn't just pick up her purse and walk away. She let HIS people " handle it" at that time. But people knew WHERE he was within a short period of time, even if they didn't know the circumstances.
Only a psychopathic personality type would walk away from someone who MAY or MAY NOT be helped by emergency health care. No one knows in a hotel room if death is a certain outcome. RG was not an old frail man!!! Sure, a person would be scared and there would be talk, more than likely, but I don't think anyone who is halfway normal mentally would let their lover lie there like a dog.

As for the hit man scenario, my point was that it would be hard to lure an experienced DA to his death. IF there was a long range kill shot, then there would have been a body found with a bullet hole.

As for the possible ties to Sandusky and his crimes, I think the State AG office were quick to say Ray Gricar did the right thing, handled it correctly, etc.
He was a father in addition to being a DA. Lara wasn't grown in 1998. I don't see how he could have turned a blind eye to a person, any person, who was hurting children or who was accused of hurting a child or children who were about the same age as his own daughter.

One of the principles of psychology, and rightfully so, that past behavior is a good predictor of future behavior. I think that sometimes we have not considered his behavior as a prosecuting DA prior to the Sandusky case well enough. IF he was a slacker and known to be a grifter, that's one thing, but he was not.

 

[Lord_Chatterly]

One witness, no victim in the 2002 incident. You have four adult witnesses to Sandusky's statement, plus two victims in 1998.



The question might deal with the reason RFG made that decision 1998. If it was an honest mistake did he catch it. That is unlikely, since there was no file.

Was it something else.

Like one or more of the victims ? Considering how their anger level could become, knowing RFG had passed on their case ? Or one of their parents .... is this the road you are going on ?

 

[J. J. in Phila]

With all due respect, the fact that the Rockefeller situation became KNOWN proves my point!!

It didn't become known for several hours.

As for the hit man scenario, my point was that it would be hard to lure an experienced DA to his death. IF there was a long range kill shot, then there would have been a body found with a bullet hole.

Agreed.

As for the possible ties to Sandusky and his crimes, I think the State AG office were quick to say Ray Gricar did the right thing, handled it correctly, etc.

As far as I know, the AG's office has not said that.

He was a father in addition to being a DA. Lara wasn't grown in 1998.

In 1998, LG was in college out of state.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Like one or more of the victims ? Considering how their anger level could become, knowing RFG had passed on their case ? Or one of their parents .... is this the road you are going on ?

I'm not on any single road.

 

[minazoe]

again, I would be so interested in knowing Ray's record for prosecuting sex crimes against children.

I can see the police as dragging their feet...not really helping...

I can see that the first thing you would want to do in an investigation and complaints like this, would be to move forward and contact those who could be likely victims, or possible victims due to their direct relationships with Jerry.

Also 1998 is not the 1950's,
even if he could not win a case, he still could have made a case and effectively ruined Sandusky right there by letting it go as public as possible.

so, how could Ray sleep at night? surely he has been privy to the most disturbing and sickening child abuse cases...surely he knows that Jerry would continue on...with these poor little boys...

surely he did not believe one word of his apology.

so there was no case...not enough...

righto.