PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, former district attorney, Bellefonte, 15 Apr 2005 - #17

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  • #481
isn't there a link between trauma and eventual mental decline? or late onset mental health issues..how traumatized was Ray by the death of his brother? I wonder if it was more than we know..if Ray was maybe triggered by some stressful event or something...I still get this feeling of Ray embroiled in some kind of drama..something hidden...we will never know what was going on maybe even with PF...this is because something is 100 percent not right in this case...in the way it was investigated , in the way it was surmised, in the way it added up.

if he was not out there talking on a burner phone...then who in bloody hades was he talking to?

sometimes brilliant people loose it..it's a known fact...he could have been becoming quietly paranoid for years...

omigod this case makes me nuts! mOO
 
  • #482
isn't there a link between trauma and eventual mental decline? or late onset mental health issues..how traumatized was Ray by the death of his brother? I wonder if it was more than we know..if Ray was maybe triggered by some stressful event or something...I still get this feeling of Ray embroiled in some kind of drama..something hidden...we will never know what was going on maybe even with PF...this is because something is 100 percent not right in this case...in the way it was investigated , in the way it was surmised, in the way it added up.

if he was not out there talking on a burner phone...then who in bloody hades was he talking to?

sometimes brilliant people loose it..it's a known fact...he could have been becoming quietly paranoid for years...

omigod this case makes me nuts! mOO

We cannot discount a psychological problem, though I do not think trauma would cause it. Roy Gricar's suicide was just under 9 years prior to RFG vanishing.
 
  • #483
J., I've always had little conversations with myself as well. My explanation for yours and mine are that we were each only children, and if you were like me, you were perfectly content with your life as a solitary child with your parents and extended family members being either present or doing their own thing nearby. Also, I think we are both cerebral people. We likely had many school and church chums but liked and do like being alone very much.
My son did the same thing as a child. I don't feel comfortable asking him about whether it lasted into adulthood.

Ray may be like this as well. I've never gestured when talking softly to myself, but in times of stress, I have cried a few tears, so that seems similar to me. I am not delusional, I am not hallucinating, it is a lifelong habit which likely started out as a toddler comforting herself ( or himself) or just working things out as growing children do.

My son did the same thing as a child. I don't feel comfortable asking him about whether it lasted into adulthood.

I do not know who Rebecca Snyder is, or if this is perhaps an untruth. I think we need to consider that not all people's " eyewitness accounts" are genuine, and that after a case becomes famous, so to speak, any later reports are not always honest. Some people crave public attention in a missing person case. However, I will take this at face value because a memory has just popped up that makes sense.

There's another practical possibility!
A way to communicate with a person who's not that far away. IDK the distance range, but we had friends who were an older couple who traveled quite often to distant places in the early 2000's. They had modern tiny versions of " walkie talkies" to talk to each other in a winery or other attraction when separated in a group.
I thought what they were doing was humorous until I thought about the time I got lost when I was alone in the catacombs at the Louvre ( in Paris, for those who might not recognize the name).

I would have given anything for a 2 way communication device in the ancient spooky huge underground space. It was totally deserted.

The entire walkie talkie fit in the palm. Very cute and worked well. It would be hard to see in use unless the person wanted it to be seen. My friends' set were blue metallic and did not look like cell phones at all. I think this needs to be considered.

Of course, both a burner phone or another comm. device points to a helping partner or friend, and walkaway. Not to murder or suicide, obviously.
 
  • #484
Snyder was mentioned in the press at the time. She is also on my witness lists.

She though RFG could have been on a phone with Bluetooth, but she did not see a phone,

A phone could point to walkaway, but it also could have pointed to a clandestine meeting that RFG was trying to hide.
 
  • #485
I am also an only child..how odd.

okay this story cannot possibly have walkie talkies! ( anything is possible with this crazy story).
 
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  • #486
Remember that RFG did have a sibling.
 
  • #487
ok I listened to episode five of the podcast..if all this is true..why did Ray ditch the computer before meeting with one of these second mile mothers? I mean there is a lot of money flowing through this charity foundation correct? but what interest would organized crime have in holding up Jerry Sandusky? I know they deal in all kinds of distasteful stuff but I don't think they are going to whack a DA over a pedophile...seems like a good angle but I have trouble with aspects ..so I only think this is one possible scenario and maybe not too much better than others..I also know DA's and Judges prefer to not be recognized and have to take safety measures regarding where they live, cars they drive etc...as there is always an outside threat. mOO
 
  • #488
ok I listened to episode five of the podcast..if all this is true..why did Ray ditch the computer before meeting with one of these second mile mothers? I mean there is a lot of money flowing through this charity foundation correct? but what interest would organized crime have in holding up Jerry Sandusky? I know they deal in all kinds of distasteful stuff but I don't think they are going to whack a DA over a pedophile...seems like a good angle but I have trouble with aspects ..so I only think this is one possible scenario and maybe not too much better than others..I also know DA's and Judges prefer to not be recognized and have to take safety measures regarding where they live, cars they drive etc...as there is always an outside threat. mOO

The first problem with the theory is one of they people thinks was a "mother" was actually PEF. The second problen is that, even after Sandusky was convicted, none of then ever came forward. Victim 6's mother actively helped LE locate other victims; RFG knew who she was. He never contacted her. The third problem is that there is no record of any involvement with Sandusky after 1998.
 
  • #489
until we can identify these women they could be the man on the moon for all we know..and who is this secret man?

the talking on a phone/burner phone/or into his wallet or hand is very strange and I have had just about enough of this charade!!!!!

lolz...mOO
 
  • #490
Snyder was mentioned in the press at the time. She is also on my witness lists.

She though RFG could have been on a phone with Bluetooth, but she did not see a phone,

A phone could point to walkaway, but it also could have pointed to a clandestine meeting that RFG was trying to hide.

There was Bluetooth in 2005? Wait, I know the answer to this. Yes there was. My husband's former BMW was a 2005 and Bluetooth was built into the car.
Could BMW have done something similar with the Minis starting with their debut model? IDK.

Those walkie talkies likely have a slick modern name. but as my friends could not easily use their cell phones in Canada to talk to each other when they were separated by a few miles, they used the little comm. devices.

They looked more like the Star Trek communicators than any phone, so they are really sleek and well, something I'd like to get for our house. as separated as we are and with 4 dogs, 2 who are deaf.

I lost the URL to the podcast. I am not sure I believe a lot of what she says but maybe because we were told so little, new info seems almost " suspect" after so many, many years. IDK.
 
  • #491
ok so he was seen talking on a two way radio..or a burner cell phone or a bluetooth walkie talkie device..

because there are no calls in this time frame we assume one of these devices was used at that moment..

ok if there is a burner phone or whatever in this story..then there is someone on the other end that knows where Ray is.

either that or he lost his mind and was speaking into his wallet.

mOO
 
  • #492
I've worked with severely mentally ill clients in acute care settings. Meaning- they were not stabilized on the major psychiatric drugs yet.

Not one single person ever dissplayed the " Get Smart" talking to the shoe phone, or any other non- phone AND they could not have their cell phones for any reason except on their way out the door to their home with an adult family member or responsible friend.

It's one thing to say " talked to his wallet" but people do not do this in real life
Also, there was no " speaking to an imaginary person while using an object or device" in the many TRAINING videos I had to watch.

Last thing: When people who have had responsible and mature lifestyles have a mental break due to a MAJOR trauma ( like the tornadoes, or a massive highway crash with the fireballs, huge fatal pileups and so forth that just went to trial and it's in the International news). they are much more likely to STOP talking due to fear and shock than to start babbling to Fred Flintstone or even Jesus.
Also, Ray wasn't a religious adult.

IF the witness testimony is correct about communication by Ray in the park, then he was talking to or attempting to make a phone call. One thing that has NOT been discussed is the possibility that the call was to a foreign country and there were difficulties with the connections.
There is reason to believe he left the US and didn't return. I believe the FBI definitely knows.
 
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  • #493
ok well I have seen people on the train in my city talking into broken phones, and imaginary phones, head sets etc..or you can see the phone is not on and no one is there.. one man was talking on and on ( very loudly) to a famous movie producer and was going to be on set soon ..he was obviously homeless...it may be to self comfort or part of psychosis...or for attention..

but really talking into his "wallet" was said in jest... I live in a big city and we see everything here...so..mOO
 
  • #494
Bumping up for Ray. WS still remembers and cares.
 
  • #495
Hello all. I’m new here and local to central PA. I was I college when Ray went missing but didn’t watch news or keep up on things back then. Over the years I heard about Ray here and there, usually when an unidentified body turned up somewhere in the area. Last year I was searching online about a guy that went to my school who was convicted of murder. Ray was the DA that prosecuted the case. That got me to start reading about Ray. In doing so, I read the last few years of posts on here, and have learned a lot. I recently listened to the 5 episodes of Rebecca Knight’s podcast. I’ve thought a lot about it and have some questions that I’ll post in a separate post.
 
  • #496
Hello all. I’m new here and local to central PA. I was I college when Ray went missing but didn’t watch news or keep up on things back then. Over the years I heard about Ray here and there, usually when an unidentified body turned up somewhere in the area. Last year I was searching online about a guy that went to my school who was convicted of murder. Ray was the DA that prosecuted the case. That got me to start reading about Ray. In doing so, I read the last few years of posts on here, and have learned a lot. I recently listened to the 5 episodes of Rebecca Knight’s podcast. I’ve thought a lot about it and have some questions that I’ll post in a separate post.

oh my my, and aren't you interesting? welcome to Websleuths! I am personally driven near crazy by Ray's disappearance...I look forward to hearing your ideas and questions as I 'm sure do others....
 
  • #497
The laptop is found:
So, from my readings here it seems the laptop was found UPstream of the bridge over the Susquehanna. The laptop was found by fisherman a few months after Ray went missing, and then presumably different fisherman found the removed hard drive at some point after that.
1. I will say with 99% certainty that a laptop or a hard drive could not be thrown more that 50’ horizontally up stream from that bridge. I can also say with the same certainty that after a few months they would be washed downstream beyond the bridge, unless they were on the bank. To me it’s almost not possible that they were thrown from the bridge.
2. Does anyone here know exactly where they were found? Like drawing a red dot on a screenshot from Google Earth?
3. Were the fisherman interviewed and if so is there any public info about it? Such as, what was the disposition of each piece when it was found? Why did the fisherman that found the laptop report it to the police? I fish rivers a lot and finding junk is commonplace. If I had ever found a laptop in the water not sure I’d think it was something the police would want to see. The hard drive is a little easier to understand because it came after the public knew about the laptop.
 
  • #498
The trip to Raystown:
This trip Ray made to Raystown lake the day before his disappearance is like a whole big mystery and conversation piece within the mystery. I could ask 100 “whys” here. I’ll just lay out the biggest things on my mind for now.
1. Supposedly a doctor that knew Ray saw him near a boat launch. Is there any public record of any further details on this, like did the doctor speak to Ray or just see him? Did he see just the mini, just Ray, or Ray in the mini?
2. There are about 10 boat launches at Raystown. I have launched a boat from 4 of them. I’ve seen what appears to be speculation here that he was seen at the Aitch launch. Anything definite? Aitch is the crappiest of the 4 launches I have used, and there is nothing to do there besides launch a boat or maybe walk around a little.
3. Ray took a several hour jaunt to the lake in the middle of business hours, then goes back to Bellefonte and spends a few hours in the courthouse after normal business hours. Not uncommon for someone like him to have that flexibility since he didn’t have a boss, but does anyone know if that was something he commonly did? Did PF or anyone else employed at the courthouse make any comments that would shed light on whether this was Ray acting strangely or usual behavior for him?
 
  • #499
Slovenia:
Apparently Ray made several trips to Slovenia in the past to visit relatives. Is this confirmed? If so, is there any public record indicating whether the police did or did not attempt to contact any of these relatives to ask if they heard from or saw Ray after the disappearance date? Surely with a little research the police could have pulled that off.
 
  • #500
My probabilities right now:
- suicide 1%
- foul play 50%
- walk off 48%
- abducted by aliens or by big brother 1%

My probability for each scenario of having a near definite conclusion by year 2070 when I’ll be too old to care anymore:
- suicide, 75% chance his body is found
- Foul play, 20% chance we get confirmation if it was foul play
- Walk off, 90% chance that someone provides proof he lived after year 2005
- Other. If it wasn’t any of the 3 main scenarios then we will never find out what happened to Ray.
 
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