Identified! PA - White Haven, 'Beth Doe' & Unborn Baby 169UFPA, 16-22, Dec'76 - #1 - Evelyn Colon

[carbuff]

I suspect the mob connection for many reasons. Unbeknownst to many, Carbon and Schuylkill Counties are great dumping grounds, for many reasons. They're centrally located among several cities. I can be to NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC in under 2 hours. I-80 wouldn't be my first choice of spots to dump, giving me the inclination that it wasn't a local OR they were extremely stupid. After going through all of the trouble to dismember and then just dump over a bridge. Whole bodies have never been found...

I'll have to see if I can find a link to the case where a marine was prosecuted without his wife's body. They know where she is, they just can't get her... nor will they ever.

I'm rambling and I'm hoping I make some sense...

You make sense to me. But the dismembering and dumping just don't sound like a professional hit to me. As you say, they know how to dispose of bodies. This is rather clumsy.

 

[Spurser]

Come on y'all, let's solve this case!!!

 

[Unknownlady]

ok - I set up a blog for B&B Doe
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/blog.php?u=38738

Not sure how to invite peeps.

 

[kitbits]

I suspect the mob connection for many reasons. Unbeknownst to many, Carbon and Schuylkill Counties are great dumping grounds, for many reasons. They're centrally located among several cities. I can be to NYC, Philly, Baltimore and DC in under 2 hours. I-80 wouldn't be my first choice of spots to dump, giving me the inclination that it wasn't a local OR they were extremely stupid. After going through all of the trouble to dismember and then just dump over a bridge. Whole bodies have never been found...

I'll have to see if I can find a link to the case where a marine was prosecuted without his wife's body. They know where she is, they just can't get her... nor will they ever.

I'm rambling and I'm hoping I make some sense...

well, you're insight is very good! so rambling can be a fine thing

they did find NY newpapers in one of the suitcases, so I don't think your theory is far off at all! except i have to agree with carbuff--the mob is much more practiced & methodical when it comes to disposing...this seems more rushed, not really planned. like, they didn't even take the time to see if the suitcases actually went into the river--it's like they just chucked them over the bridge & sped off.

 

[Spurser]

well, you're insight is very good! so rambling can be a fine thing

they did find NY newpapers in one of the suitcases, so I don't think your theory is far off at all! except i have to agree with carbuff--the mob is much more practiced & methodical when it comes to disposing...this seems more rushed, not really planned. like, they didn't even take the time to see if the suitcases actually went into the river--it's like they just chucked them over the bridge & sped off.

What if the killer put the NY newpaper in the suitcase to throw off the authorities?

 

[ScorpRising]

OT but back to my last post. Marine's last name was Russell. Murdered wife in their married officer's quarters at Quantico. He drove her body to PA and dumped her in a stripping pit near where he grew up. Happened in 90 or 91. Found links to newspaper articles after the guilty verdict was handed down but doesn't give the full story. It was the first federal case to be prosecuted without a body. I remember seeing the story on FBI Files or one of the many crime shows I used to watch regularly.

 

[ScorpRising]

well, you're insight is very good! so rambling can be a fine thing

they did find NY newpapers in one of the suitcases, so I don't think your theory is far off at all! except i have to agree with carbuff--the mob is much more practiced & methodical when it comes to disposing...this seems more rushed, not really planned. like, they didn't even take the time to see if the suitcases actually went into the river--it's like they just chucked them over the bridge & sped off.

ITA! I reread the file last night. When the boy discovered the suitcases one was on the river bank and two were 20 feet away in the bush. That's some very bad aim... To think of all of the body disposal options in the area, this was flat out sloppy. The Lehigh also isn't a very good river to use for a disposal site. Not to mention, softside suitcases thrown off a bridge are not going to keep the contents contained. (I'm beginning to scare myself in that I can discuss body disposal at length.)

IMO, the NY papers shouldn't be overanalyzed as it's available everywhere BUT our killer wasn't very bright to think of using another city's paper. Spurser, I don't think throwing off the authorities was on the killer's mind. Just get rid of the problem at hand. (Married man who knocked up lover and didn't want the kid? Pimp angry cuz girl wasn't careful? Just throwing ideas out here...)

I was on a site last night that showed pics of the suitcases and the bedspread. I'll see if I can find it again. Maybe everyone else already saw them and I'm just playing catch up.

The dismemeberment was not of surgical quality but was not an ameteur either. Butcher maybe? Serated blade was used.

Rambling again and my spelling is horrible today. I'll see what else I can come up with!

 

[Unknownlady]

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/on_ass...tence_solves_1975_murder_mystery_200911102324

 

[Unknownlady]

A friend of mine on another site managed to get a copy of that newspaper. The main article involved a mafia hit on Andiamo Pappidio. That is what got us looking at Beth as a possible mafia hit.

Maybe she was a girlfriend of a mob guy.

Trishpa - you know there is lots of mob stuff going on in PA.

 

[Unknownlady]

Did you all see I set up a Beth & Baby Doe blog?

 

[Unknownlady]

OT but back to my last post. Marine's last name was Russell. Murdered wife in their married officer's quarters at Quantico. He drove her body to PA and dumped her in a stripping pit near where he grew up. Happened in 90 or 91. Found links to newspaper articles after the guilty verdict was handed down but doesn't give the full story. It was the first federal case to be prosecuted without a body. I remember seeing the story on FBI Files or one of the many crime shows I used to watch regularly.

 

[ScorpRising]

A friend of mine on another site managed to get a copy of that newspaper. The main article involved a mafia hit on Andiamo Pappidio. That is what got us looking at Beth as a possible mafia hit.

Maybe she was a girlfriend of a mob guy.

Trishpa - you know there is lots of mob stuff going on in PA.

As much as I'd like to say that mob stuff doesn't happen in this great state, I know better. I haven't heard of anything in quite a few years but the mob doesn't just go away...

 

[Trino]

As much as I'd like to say that mob stuff doesn't happen in this great state, I know better. I haven't heard of anything in quite a few years but the mob doesn't just go away...

PA and the Youngstown mafia...

When I was younger, I recall two mafia hits, which I'm guessing have never been solved. One was a car bombing; the other was a young woman found in the trunk of a burning car. I recall she had some sort of ties to the questionable characters. Ever hear of the Portage Lakes area? As I recall, it was a hang-out.

While I haven't heard much in many years about organized crime in that area, the mob was active well into the 1980's, perhaps later. Either things got too hot, and they moved to another location, or they retired.

 

[carbuff]

ITA! I reread the file last night. When the boy discovered the suitcases one was on the river bank and two were 20 feet away in the bush. That's some very bad aim... To think of all of the body disposal options in the area, this was flat out sloppy. The Lehigh also isn't a very good river to use for a disposal site. Not to mention, softside suitcases thrown off a bridge are not going to keep the contents contained. (I'm beginning to scare myself in that I can discuss body disposal at length.)

IMO, the NY papers shouldn't be overanalyzed as it's available everywhere BUT our killer wasn't very bright to think of using another city's paper. Spurser, I don't think throwing off the authorities was on the killer's mind. Just get rid of the problem at hand. (Married man who knocked up lover and didn't want the kid? Pimp angry cuz girl wasn't careful? Just throwing ideas out here...)

I was on a site last night that showed pics of the suitcases and the bedspread. I'll see if I can find it again. Maybe everyone else already saw them and I'm just playing catch up.

The dismemeberment was not of surgical quality but was not an ameteur either. Butcher maybe? Serated blade was used.

Rambling again and my spelling is horrible today. I'll see what else I can come up with!

Somebody upthread suggested that two people did the dumping -- one driving slowly in the breakdown lane and the other heaving bags out the window. That sounds plausible with the positions where the bags were found. My horrid thought was maybe I ought to get a couple of, like, bowling balls or something, and see how tossing them works...

Serrated blade and competent but not surgical dismemberment sounds like a hunter to me. Used to cutting things up, but not a lot of practice.

For pimp angry because girl wasn't careful, seems like he would have nailed her months earlier if that was the case, rather than waiting until full term.

 

[ScorpRising]

Somebody upthread suggested that two people did the dumping -- one driving slowly in the breakdown lane and the other heaving bags out the window. That sounds plausible with the positions where the bags were found. My horrid thought was maybe I ought to get a couple of, like, bowling balls or something, and see how tossing them works...

Serrated blade and competent but not surgical dismemberment sounds like a hunter to me. Used to cutting things up, but not a lot of practice.

For pimp angry because girl wasn't careful, seems like he would have nailed her months earlier if that was the case, rather than waiting until full term.

Plausible but I would think they would be further apart if the car was in motion. Here's the bridge, heaver is ready. Heave. Get second suitcase ready. Heave. Third suitcase. Heave. I think a moving car, even a slow moving car is unlikely. Did they land on the east or west side of the river? I think I may have to schedule a road trip in my future.

Deer were still in season so a typical hunter could have had very recent practice.

I didn't really think the pimp theory through, I agree with your thoughts.

 

[kitbits]

ITA! I reread the file last night. When the boy discovered the suitcases one was on the river bank and two were 20 feet away in the bush. That's some very bad aim... To think of all of the body disposal options in the area, this was flat out sloppy. The Lehigh also isn't a very good river to use for a disposal site. Not to mention, softside suitcases thrown off a bridge are not going to keep the contents contained. (I'm beginning to scare myself in that I can discuss body disposal at length.)

IMO, the NY papers shouldn't be overanalyzed as it's available everywhere BUT our killer wasn't very bright to think of using another city's paper. Spurser, I don't think throwing off the authorities was on the killer's mind. Just get rid of the problem at hand. (Married man who knocked up lover and didn't want the kid? Pimp angry cuz girl wasn't careful? Just throwing ideas out here...)

I was on a site last night that showed pics of the suitcases and the bedspread. I'll see if I can find it again. Maybe everyone else already saw them and I'm just playing catch up.

The dismemeberment was not of surgical quality but was not an ameteur either. Butcher maybe? Serated blade was used.

Rambling again and my spelling is horrible today. I'll see what else I can come up with!

hi Trishy--your ramblings are good! & I creep myself out all the time, reading about these cases & watching the Crime & Investigation Network...in fact, I've gotten rather nervous walking the dog lately, particularly with the early darkness or worrying that the dog & I will stumble upon something horrifying :s

back to topic: I remember reading about the serated blade & the precision...yes, I think someone with butchery skills is highly probable--a hunter or a butcher or both?

 

[ScorpRising]

OT but back to my last post. Marine's last name was Russell. Murdered wife in their married officer's quarters at Quantico. He drove her body to PA and dumped her in a stripping pit near where he grew up. Happened in 90 or 91. Found links to newspaper articles after the guilty verdict was handed down but doesn't give the full story. It was the first federal case to be prosecuted without a body. I remember seeing the story on FBI Files or one of the many crime shows I used to watch regularly.

Hi Stacey, I'll gladly tell you more. Just remember it's completely OT from Beth's case. It's just an example of better body disposal methods in coal country.

I'm posting links. Shirley Gibbs Russell actually has a thread here, which I only discovered through Google.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-37723.html

She's also on Charley Project.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/russell_shirley.html

If you google her name or Robert Peter Russell you can get additional info.

 

[carbuff]

Did you all see I set up a Beth & Baby Doe blog?

Yes, and I subscribed to it. Thanks!

TrishyPA, I think you're right about the timing.

Maybe he heard the first one hit the ground, then moved over hoping to get closer to the water?

 

[Mia]

Just discovered this thread and wanted to say thanks to all who've put so much hard work into it. Beth and her little one deserve not to be forgotten.

Because she was 8 months pregnant and the fetus was so cruelly disposed of, I know it seems natural to assume the father-to-be, perhaps with the help of his family, did this, but I do wonder. He didn't take any steps to hide her identity, and since he dismembered her it wouldn't have taken much extra effort to cut off her fingers and dispose of them elsewhere so she couldn't be identified via fingerprints. I'm just thinking if he were the father, he wouldn't have wanted to leave any element behind that may possibly identify her, because that would mean she could be linked to him. I'm also leaning away from a mob killing, because from what I've read the mob is good at making people disappear by throwing them in the ocean and sinking them with cement, dissolving body parts in vats of acid, etc. The mob has tons of resources at it's disposal to get rid of a body, and the way Beth and her baby were just haphazardly thrown over the bridge seems too sloppy for it to have been a mob killing.

At this point I'm leaning toward serial killer or someone she had met very recently (i.e. not the father of her baby). JMO and I could be wrong. I will continue to follow this thread in the hopes of getting justice for this mother and her baby. Hope all continue to post and share ideas!

 

[hmg]

Welcome to the thread Mia!

In 1976 it would be harder to ID someone by fingerprints than now, especially in a closed community as we suspect Beth was from. If the killer knew that it was unlikely she would be identified through that means he/ she wouldn't have bothered to cut the fingers. Typically people are fingerprinted only when they've committed a crime, are working for the government, occasionally for driver's licenses, etc. Yes, a lot of people get fingerprinted, but most don't ever enter AFIS.

It's impossible to know at this point whether the cutting off of the nose and ears and dismemberment in general was a way of concealing Beth's ID or was some sort of ritual but I do lean towards being a way to conceal her. Someone inexperienced with crime would think these steps were sufficient enough to conceal her ID. One theme that keeps on coming up is that this killer was sloppy. That says to me that this was a person who did not commit a crime like this before. There are disorganized type serial killers but they generally don't dispose of bodies. An organized serial killer would take the time to know the facts about I-80 and the Lehigh, although there may be some element of bad planning or bad luck there.

I'm not saying it can't be a serial killer who killed Beth Doe, I think that's a theory worth investigating, but given the facts of the crime and what I know about criminology I tend to lean towards someone who knew Beth at some level.