Parents Fake Religion to Avoid Vaccines

[Details]

Vaccines do harm some children. But immensely fewer than used to DIE due to the diseases that the vaccines prevent. Yeah, it's a risk. But not vaccinating is an even bigger risk. And worse still, you are giving that risk to every child around you.


Autism didn't used to be a diagnosis at all 40 years ago, so saying it didn't exist is kinda obvious. It existed, but it wasn't recognized. Someone ran the stats - did you know the number of mentally retarded children has been going down over the last 40 years? You know why? The number of retarded children is going down as the number of autistic children goes up. It's because we didn't used to know about autism, so autistic children were misclassified as retarded. Now that we know, we classify them properly. But if you don't pay attention to all the facts, it looks like some huge mysterious increase in autism. All it is is education on the part of doctors and the public to learn what autism is, and correctly diagnose these children.

 

[Spazkat9696]

"Details"
Unless you have had a child go from NT to ASD around the same time as vaccinations were given you can not understand the passion behind parents beliefs. Although their belief about vaccines differ from your's the fact remains the same and that is their child is different post vaccine. Even if the vaccine had nothing to do with the child's Autism the parents have nothing else to blame for their child's disorder because the cause is unknown. Just so you know you will never change the mind of a parent of a child with Autism who is convinced vaccines caused the illness unless you can prove what did cause the Autism

You should also know you need to always use what's referred to as people first language because people are not defined by their classification. You should say children with Autism not Autistic children and child with mental retardation not mentally retarded child. They are people first.

Yes I am aware of the correlation between the rise of Autism and the decline of mental retardation. Proven factors which have reduced mental retardation include. Rh testing during pregnancy. Rh incompatibility causes Athetoid CP however due to Rh testing the number of Athetoid CP cases have dropped dramatically. Another reason for the drop is genetic screening during pregnancy resulting in termination. Increased knowledge of the benefits of folic acid during pregnancy is also believed to reduced the number of MR cases. Not to mention genetic screening at birth, I think it's 21 things they check for, to ensure a special diet is not needed.

Finally, yes children were probably labeled as MR when they were in fact Autistic, but Autism was not discovered until 1943, and it was classified as a psychological disorder. Autism was not classified as a developmental disorder until the 70's. If my math is correct that would be during the late sixty's, so you're right it wasn't a problem yet because it wasn't even a developmental disorder yet. SO don't sound so smug because you think you know all, and please don't use the word retarded with out a classifier in front of it like mentally, growth, socially and so on it's disrespectful.

 

[Spazkat9696]

With the first quote of this thread I would like to add:

But I can catch the flu from you if I do not the current shot, that is why if you have the flu you made a choice not to get the shot, thereby spreading it to your family and friends. So you made that choice for them.

I for one am getting a flu shot, because the flu is not a nice thing to have, and if this shot can save me from being miserable, because the flu is not going away, then the whole family will be getting the shot.
.

Last year my son 3 at the time got his flu shot, just like every year. Two months later he got a severe case of the flu confirmed by a nasal swab done at the doctor's office. I must say the Tami-flu seemed to work great. So yes you can become ill from people who have been vaccinated. No we most certainly did not choose for him to get the flu and I don't think that's a fair assumption.

 

[reb]

SO........ tell me again why there is MERCURY in vaccines.....????? I'll be waiting til I get a good answer!

 

[Spazkat9696]

Mercury, Thimerosal, was removed from most vaccines in 1999 at the request of the American Academy of Pediatrics. However, it is still in a few vaccines including the one for the Flu.

 

[kcksum]

"Details"
Unless you have had a child go from NT to ASD around the same time as vaccinations were given you can not understand the passion behind parents beliefs. Although their belief about vaccines differ from your's the fact remains the same and that is their child is different post vaccine. Even if the vaccine had nothing to do with the child's Autism the parents have nothing else to blame for their child's disorder because the cause is unknown. Just so you know you will never change the mind of a parent of a child with Autism who is convinced vaccines caused the illness unless you can prove what did cause the Autism

You should also know you need to always use what's referred to as people first language because people are not defined by their classification. You should say children with Autism not Autistic children and child with mental retardation not mentally retarded child. They are people first.

Yes I am aware of the correlation between the rise of Autism and the decline of mental retardation. Proven factors which have reduced mental retardation include. Rh testing during pregnancy. Rh incompatibility causes Athetoid CP however due to Rh testing the number of Athetoid CP cases have dropped dramatically. Another reason for the drop is genetic screening during pregnancy resulting in termination. Increased knowledge of the benefits of folic acid during pregnancy is also believed to reduced the number of MR cases. Not to mention genetic screening at birth, I think it's 21 things they check for, to ensure a special diet is not needed.

Finally, yes children were probably labeled as MR when they were in fact Autistic, but Autism was not discovered until 1943, and it was classified as a psychological disorder. Autism was not classified as a developmental disorder until the 70's. If my math is correct that would be during the late sixty's, so you're right it wasn't a problem yet because it wasn't even a developmental disorder yet. SO don't sound so smug because you think you know all, and please don't use the word retarded with out a classifier in front of it like mentally, growth, socially and so on it's disrespectful.

spazkat, I don't think anyone was intending to be disrespectful to anyone, I also didn't see anyone sounding smug.
This is a hugely emotionally charged issue for everyone involved. I will have to say that as an ER nurse of many years, you only have to Watch one child die of chicken pox when their parents could have gotten them vaccinated, and you'll think twice about vaccinations.Visit with a person still entombed in an iron lung from having polio and you'll think twice. These vaccines irradicated epidemics that were responsible for killing thousands and thousands of kids each year. Visit third world countries without vaccination laws and watch parents bury 1 in 3 children after they die from simple diseases like measles and mumps. Vaccines are a very good thing. Like any drug, there can be rare reactions. Children's vitamins can cause fatal reactions as well, but we would never advocate not giving children a multi vitamin. My nephew is autistic from supposedly being on too many antibiotics the first 2 years of his life. Are we going to a movement to keep people from giving an infected child antibiotics because of what happened to him? I say this with all the respect in the world to anyone with an autistic child. My 30 yr old sister had autism when NO ONE wanted to recognize it for what it was, so I am not speaking without experience here.

 

[reb]

So that means the rest of us were lucky enough to get mercury injected into us. Wonderful!!! BUt, as they always say "it's perfectly safe".... just like thalidomide, lobotomies, shock treatment,, etc...

 

[Spazkat9696]

I didn't say vaccines are all bad I realize the benefit they have made, but I do think it should be a parents choice as to whether or not their child is vaccinated. I had chicken pox twice and became very ill the second time. I warned my son's pediatrician of this before he gave him the shot because I was afraid he would have a reaction given my history with the chicken pox. Well two weeks later my son had the chicken pox. His doctor reported it to the vaccine incident place (not sure of the exact term) and said it was not uncommon for children to get chicken pox from the shot. As a SAHM I was very upset because he was in no danger of getting chicken pox until I got him the shot. Also the number of shots that brought about the major reductions in disease you are talking about is 3 by 1st grade. However, children are now required to get 21 or 22 before 1st grade. Sometimes they get 5 to 6 at a time that is a lot for the body to process at one time.

 

[Spazkat9696]

So that means the rest of us were lucky enough to get mercury injected into us. Wonderful!!! BUt, as they always say "it's perfectly safe".... just like thalidomide, lobotomies, shock treatment,, etc...

All of which are still in use today including Thalomid which is trade name for thalidomide.

 

[JBean]

spazkat, I don't think anyone was intending to be disrespectful to anyone, I also didn't see anyone sounding smug.
This is a hugely emotionally charged issue for everyone involved. I will have to say that as an ER nurse of many years, you only have to Watch one child die of chicken pox when their parents could have gotten them vaccinated, and you'll think twice about vaccinations.Visit with a person still entombed in an iron lung from having polio and you'll think twice. These vaccines irradicated epidemics that were responsible for killing thousands and thousands of kids each year. Visit third world countries without vaccination laws and watch parents bury 1 in 3 children after they die from simple diseases like measles and mumps. Vaccines are a very good thing. Like any drug, there can be rare reactions. Children's vitamins can cause fatal reactions as well, but we would never advocate not giving children a multi vitamin. My nephew is autistic from supposedly being on too many antibiotics the first 2 years of his life. Are we going to a movement to keep people from giving an infected child antibiotics because of what happened to him? I say this with all the respect in the world to anyone with an autistic child. My 30 yr old sister had autism when NO ONE wanted to recognize it for what it was, so I am not speaking without experience here.

This is just a really good post.

 

[reb]

Has anyone heard about the theory that polio vaccines mightbe responsible for causing chroic fatique and fibromyalgia years down the road? It's thought that the polio virus remains dormant in your system but then becomes active again at a later age, in a subtle but chronically debilitating way. I'm not sure if this is considered 'post-polio syndrome' (which often affects survivors of polio).. or if it's a whole 'nother thing altogether (it's similar though).

Anyway.. just a theory, but one worth looking at.

 

[JBean]

Has anyone heard about the theory that polio vaccines mightbe responsible for causing chroic fatique and fibromyalgia years down the road? It's thought that the polio virus remains dormant in your system but then becomes active again at a later age, in a subtle but chronically debilitating way. I'm not sure if this is considered 'post-polio syndrome' (which often affects survivors of polio).. or if it's a whole 'nother thing altogether (it's similar though).

Anyway.. just a theory, but one worth looking at.

I thought that was theoretically caused by epstein barr as a dormant virus remaining from mononucleosis?
I have never heard that very interesting Reb.

 

[CaliKid]

I understand that parents have to do what they think is best for their children, but not immunizing them is going to affect all children down the road. Diseases that are nearly wiped out will make come-backs, and the ones who will pay will be the tiny infants who are too young for chicken pox, measles and mumps vaccines.

 

[eleven]

But I can catch the flu from you if I do not the current shot, that is why if you have the flu you made a choice not to get the shot, thereby spreading it to your family and friends. So you made that choice for them.

I for one am getting a flu shot, because the flu is not a nice thing to have, and if this shot can save me from being miserable, because the flu is not going away, then the whole family will be getting the shot.

.

The flu shot is generated from the previous years strain of the flu. The flu strain changes every single year, so the chances of the flu shot actually being effective are slim.

It is made with thimerosol, or MERCURY, which is extremely toxic. The effects are irreversible. The so called benefits do not outweigh the risks involved.

I am a health care worker, based in the Emergency Department of a large hospital. My employer offers free flu shots to all employees. I NEVER get one, and the vast majority (95%) of my coworkers don't either. It's because we know the risks involved. The majority of medical personnel steer clear of these "flu" shots.

 

[reb]

Eleven.. wow,, very interesting.. and from a medical professional! Thank you for sharing that. I have always felt queasy about flu shote.. or anything the authorities pressure you (usually with FEAR) to get. That whole "Well.... you don't want to get SICK,, do you??" NO.. of foucrse not. That's whay I have an IMMUNE SYSTEM!! AND I keep it healthy. I would much sooner trust my immune system than the stupid govt to tell me what's best. Who knows what's in those shots... I don't trust them as fas as I can spit. And once again,, MERCURY????? WHY?? WHY ? WHY????

WHo in their right mind would KNOWINGLY allow someone to inject MERCURY into themselves or their child?

My brother became severely mentally retarded around age 2 or 3. (They think he was born normal, but it's impossible now to determine). Who knows if it was caused by a shot,, probably not.. but sometimes I wonder.

Not that I am totally convinced by conspiracy theories.. and yes, of course I know that it would not be nice to die of the measles, mumps, polio, etc.... but still. I do NOT understand why we need to be injecting people with mercury (if it was outlawed in children's vaccines, then why is it still in flu shots??)... and I do NOT understand the reasons why all of a sudden everyone is supposed to have a flu shot. I have no reason NOT to think that big powerful pharmaceutical companies are behind the whole 'flu shot' craze.
And, can someone give me another explanation for the sharp rise in autism?? since.. supposedly, it's been 'proven' that there is no link?? Funny... why are so many thousands of parents 100% convinced there is?

 

[eleven]

Eleven.. wow,, very interesting.. and from a medical professional! Thank you for sharing that. I have always felt queasy about flu shote.. or anything the authorities pressure you (usually with FEAR) to get. That whole "Well.... you don't want to get SICK,, do you??" NO.. of foucrse not. That's whay I have an IMMUNE SYSTEM!! AND I keep it healthy. I would much sooner trust my immune system than the stupid govt to tell me what's best. Who knows what's in those shots... I don't trust them as fas as I can spit. And once again,, MERCURY????? WHY?? WHY ? WHY????

WHo in their right mind would KNOWINGLY allow someone to inject MERCURY into themselves or their child?

My brother became severely mentally retarded around age 2 or 3. (They think he was born normal, but it's impossible now to determine). Who knows if it was caused by a shot,, probably not.. but sometimes I wonder.

Not that I am totally convinced by conspiracy theories.. and yes, of course I know that it would not be nice to die of the measles, mumps, polio, etc.... but still. I do NOT understand why we need to be injecting people with mercury (if it was outlawed in children's vaccines, then why is it still in flu shots??)... and I do NOT understand the reasons why all of a sudden everyone is supposed to have a flu shot. I have no reason NOT to think that big powerful pharmaceutical companies are behind the whole 'flu shot' craze.
And, can someone give me another explanation for the sharp rise in autism?? since.. supposedly, it's been 'proven' that there is no link?? Funny... why are so many thousands of parents 100% convinced there is?

You're welcome, reb. It's true....my Emergency Department alone employs over 170 employees. I would say that at least 150 of those employees DO NOT get the flu shot. And you know what? We don't get sick. I mean, people DO get sick....but we have compared our call-out sick rates to other hospital personnel from other hospitals, and ours rates of people calling in sick are not any higher than others. In fact, I RARELY get sick, and I am exposed every single day to just about every nasty virus there is. During flu season, I see upwards of 90 patients on a daily basis with flu symtoms.

You're question about autism is very valid. I would like to know, why, if it has indeed been PROVEN that there is no direct link between vaccines and autism, why has the US GOVERNMENT establsihed a monetary fund (National Vaccine Injury Recovery Program, I think) to pay cash settlements to folks who have been harmed by "mandatory" vaccinations? The fund is there, it is active, and has paid claims many many times over to recipients harmed by vaccines. More than 1,500 people have been paid in excess of $1.18 billion since the inception of the program in 1988. WOW. Double WOW. Now, you know if there was any way out of paying, our government would find the way. Obviously, there have been many times where it was proven to have caused permanent damage.

 

[LinasK]

I am a health care worker, based in the Emergency Department of a large hospital. My employer offers free flu shots to all employees. I NEVER get one, and the vast majority (95&#37 of my coworkers don't either. It's because we know the risks involved. The majority of medical personnel steer clear of these "flu" shots.

And I was a health care worker for 13 years, many of which were in nursing homes. I caught the flu from a fellow co-worker, an Occupational Therapist who handled the same patient's chart that I did and gave me the flu! I also have asthma, and after the nasty flu bug I suffered, I will always get the flu shot!!! So will my 6-year-old daughter who is low on one Immunoglobin, and catches any bug that goes around, and so will my husband! It's just stupid not to immunize in my opinion, and I do know personally two friends with children with autism, and two other who have chosen not to immunize. I'm not one of them!
I was also bitten in a nursing home and exposed to TB by another patient! I had to take a drug called INH for a year because of that and that's when my asthma developed. I can no longer do the PPD tests, I have to have chest x-rays.

 

[Details]

spazkat, I don't think anyone was intending to be disrespectful to anyone, I also didn't see anyone sounding smug.
This is a hugely emotionally charged issue for everyone involved. I will have to say that as an ER nurse of many years, you only have to Watch one child die of chicken pox when their parents could have gotten them vaccinated, and you'll think twice about vaccinations.Visit with a person still entombed in an iron lung from having polio and you'll think twice. These vaccines irradicated epidemics that were responsible for killing thousands and thousands of kids each year. Visit third world countries without vaccination laws and watch parents bury 1 in 3 children after they die from simple diseases like measles and mumps. Vaccines are a very good thing. Like any drug, there can be rare reactions. Children's vitamins can cause fatal reactions as well, but we would never advocate not giving children a multi vitamin. My nephew is autistic from supposedly being on too many antibiotics the first 2 years of his life. Are we going to a movement to keep people from giving an infected child antibiotics because of what happened to him? I say this with all the respect in the world to anyone with an autistic child. My 30 yr old sister had autism when NO ONE wanted to recognize it for what it was, so I am not speaking without experience here.

Thank you so much.

These diseases are so horrible, and non-vaccinated children provide an opening for them to infest a whole community. I just feel that some people, when they're looking at the decision to vaccinate or not, forget what they are vaccinating against, what the vaccines prevent, what it used to be like, and that their decision affects far more than just their child, their family.

 

[Details]

....And, can someone give me another explanation for the sharp rise in autism?? since.. supposedly, it's been 'proven' that there is no link?? Funny... why are so many thousands of parents 100% convinced there is?

The sharp rise in autism maps to when it became widely known. There is substantial evidence that it is not a sharp rise in autistic children, but a sharp rise in children that always were autistic finally being recognized as autistic. The sharp rise is only us recognizing a factor that has always been there. Once the 'odd' person in a town - now it's someone with autism.

Many thousands of people are convinced that Saddam was allied with Al Queda. Many thousands of people are convinced that silicone breast implants caused connective tissue diseases. Many thousands of people believe that there are people out there putting poison and needles and razor blades in halloween candy. Many thousands of people believe all kinds of things that we know to not be true.

It's fear, and a simple coincidence that autism tends to strike at the same age as we are giving vaccines. But coincidence is not the same thing as cause and effect. Like the classic example - you can map a sharp rise in the number of rapes to sales of ice cream. So - does ice cream cause rape? Chemicals in the milk, artificial hormones making testosterone go wild? A pretty good, scientific appearing website could be created about how using these chemicals on our cattle is creating an army of rapists driven mad by ice cream. Could probably convince many thousands of people. But - ice cream sales and rape are linked because rape is a warm weather crime (not entirely, but there are more - more opportunity), and ice cream is a warm weather food. But - set up a couple of rape victims to testify passionately about their pain and suffering, talk about chemicals, hormones, etc. - and I'd bet we could have a ton of people convinced.

 

[Details]

...You're question about autism is very valid. I would like to know, why, if it has indeed been PROVEN that there is no direct link between vaccines and autism, why has the US GOVERNMENT establsihed a monetary fund (National Vaccine Injury Recovery Program, I think) to pay cash settlements to folks who have been harmed by "mandatory" vaccinations? The fund is there, it is active, and has paid claims many many times over to recipients harmed by vaccines. More than 1,500 people have been paid in excess of $1.18 billion since the inception of the program in 1988. WOW. Double WOW. Now, you know if there was any way out of paying, our government would find the way. Obviously, there have been many times where it was proven to have caused permanent damage.

Because they aren't paying for autism. There are known side effects to vaccines, and since we need to have as many people vaccinated as possible to prevent the still far worse toll from the diseases the vaccines prevent, the government pays.