Pat Brown compares Lisa case to other cases.

[TotallyObsessed]

Haleigh...how could I forget? There are circumstances that are similar, and I hate to say it, but I am seeing shades of Misty in some of DB's on-camera behavior.

That's the first case I thought of. Haleigh Cummings. Middle of the night...somebody took her.....mother (step) too messed up to help LE with anything....can't remember. Of course, this case is milder in that it was alcohol not drugs....but very similar.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html#storylink=omni_popular

Deborah Bradley, mother of Lisa, lived at a residence at Fort Bragg, N.C., a little over a mile away from the home where the other infant, Harmony Jade Creech, “disappeared.”

Bradley, the bloggers contend, must have known about the other case. After all, her husband then was a private in the 82nd Airborne, the same unit as the victim’s father.

“After reading the (Deja Vu) post, it sounds like it was a copy cat…,” opined one man, identifying himself as a relative of the North Carolina victim.

An eerie coincidence, yes, one that Kansas City police say they have not missed.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/2...els.html#storylink=omni_popular#ixzz1bVW2qwms

 

[eileenhawkeye]

In this case, it seems that most people who think Deborah is guilty believe that she murdered Lisa and it was premeditated. I've seen many posts saying that you wouldn't cover up an accident. However, in the Ramsey case, it's a common theory that JonBenet was accidentally killed by someone in the house, and it was covered up. Barely anyone thinks that if a family member killed JonBenet, that they intended to do so, but in Lisa's case, I've seen posts mentioning the death penalty.

If you believe that parents wouldn't cover up an accident, you're IDI (intruder did it) in the Ramsey case. But in Lisa's case, if you believe that, then there's a good chance that you're still FDI and believe that it was premeditated. So that's what I don't understand; what is it about Lisa's case that screams that Deborah planned to murder her daughter? Why is the accident-turned-coverup so widely accepted in the Ramsey case, yet in the Irwin case, it's 'if Deborah is guilty, this was a planned murder'?

Is it because of the Anthony trial that just ended in which Casey most likely planned and carried out Caylee's murder, yet the defense argued it was an accident? That case is more fresh in our minds, so we believe that every parent who kills a child must have done so intentionally? I believe that in the McCann case, it was (and still is) a popular theory that Madeleine was accidentally killed by her parents, and it was covered up. I haven't heard much talk about the McCanns planning their daughter's murder.

So why is it that in Lisa's case, it's believed if the parents did it, it had to be planned because you wouldn't cover up an accident but in the Ramsey and McCann case, many believe it was an accident-turned coverup?

 

[Just K]

It doesn't seem that most WS members would go as far as to say that this is a premeditated case of murder. If Lisa died and the family covered it up, with a fake abduction report, it seems most likely that their was some kind of neglect or loss of temper that caused an unintended death. A Poll might be useful.

 

[Donjeta]

I find it easier to imagine a parent covering up an accident if reporting it would uncover child abuse, serious negligence or other criminal activity that would get the parent in trouble. If it's a straightforward unhappy coincidence that was nobody's fault - not so likely.

 

[~n/t~]

Don't miss Pat Brown's comments r/t Munchausen's and Deborah on her excellent site:

Pat Brown said...
Both MSP and MSBP are labels given to a woman with a very high narcissistic streak, often psychopathy (which is the highest level of narcissism).

Miscarriages are often a trademark of MSP or MSBP; they are easy to claim and easy to get lots of sympathy for. The worst cases of MSBP involve a female serial killer who uses her own babies as victims; she gets power, control, and attention by getting pregnant, giving birth, and then getting even more attention when the baby "dies of SIDS." Then, she gets a fun funeral event and then goes back to the bed and creates the next victim.

However, with missing children getting so much media attention, having your child "kidnapped" is like winning the lottery for an MSBP woman.

I like Pat but there is nothing to suggest the MSP and MSBP theory at this time. We don't have Lisa's medical records nor her older boy's medical records.

Pat may be over analyzing, imo

 

[Cappuccino]

:woohoo: :great: I was sure I was all alone over here!
A club of two :floorlaugh:

Make that three, I never followed the Casey Anthony case either.:seeya:

 

[~n/t~]

It doesn't seem that most WS members would go as far as to say that this is a premeditated case of murder. If Lisa died and the family covered it up, with a fake abduction report, it seems most likely that their was some kind of neglect or loss of temper that caused an unintended death. A Poll might be useful.

Snap theory makes a lot more sense to me than mom rolling over her. FWIW, I believe that's what happened in McCann and Ramsey cases.

 

[tink92]

I just mentioned the McCann case yesterday on the search thread because it really is quite similar.

The parents left three-year-old Madeleine and her two younger twin siblings (yes, younger - just toddlers) alone in their suite while they went around the corner and across a courtyard to a tapas bar some distance away. Child care was available but they chose to do the 'checking' system of parents going around from time to time to look in on the kids. That would never fly as a defense in the U.S., but that is not considered "neglect" in Portugal.

At some point that night Madeleine "disappeared." A window screen was ajar - a second-story window.

The parents acted strange, even going running as usual the next day, and they did not help much with the searching. Much later, a cadaver dog hit on their car, which they said had been used to haul garbage to a dump including chicken bones. Later, there was also a hit from a cadaver dog near a couch where the child might have climbed up and fallen out the window, or where the body might have been hidden.

People suspected a cover-up as some of the friends of the family said they had seen odd suspects walking around carrying children (nothing was ever proven) and as sightings rolled in from around the world (all of them mistaken identities).

Very similar situation, except these people in Missouri were drinking boxed wine, not fine wine at a Portugal resort. :twocents: Like the Missouri mother, they wanted "grown-up time", only the people involved were attractive doctors with high-profile friends (J.K. Rowling has apparently helped the family financially).

And somebody is probably going to jail for something here in the U.S., while the McCanns are off living their lives in Scotland.

<modsnip> They DO NOT live in Scotland??...They DID NOT go running the next day?...Where do you get this <modsnip> from??

Plus they were at a restaurant on the complex they were staying in a sleepy Portugal village. Checking on the kids every 20 mins. This is the SAME childcare that the hotel offered. A listening service. It is common in Europe.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing..the maccanns suffer every day for the rest of their lives for their mistake. <modsnip>

 

[~n/t~]

<modsnip> They DO NOT live in Scotland??...They DID NOT go running the next day?...<modsnip>

Plus they were at a restaurant on the complex they were staying in a sleepy Portugal village. Checking on the kids every 20 mins. This is the SAME childcare that the hotel offered. A listening service. It is common in Europe.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing..the maccanns suffer every day for the rest of their lives for their mistake. <modsnip>

They didn't use the child care services offered by the hotel. They decided to take turns checking on the children. I could go on and on,,,,,but I think it would be totally off topic.

The McCann debate seems to be off limits everywhere.

 

[Kimster]

The McCann issue is off the table. Please turn to another topic. :tyou:

 

[pinkfly]

I find the story about fake abduction while she was (or might have been) at Fort Bragg to be incredibly fascinating. I would think this would be all over msm.

 

[nursebeeme]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html

not sure if this one has been linked to yet (sorry if it has)

But the time line does not appear to support anything more. Military records show Pvt. Sean Bradley was discharged in April 2007 &#8212; several months before the remains of the Creech baby were found in the attic, stuffed in a plastic-wrapped diaper box.

Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html#ixzz1bXEEtEWr

eta: I thought he was currently deployed????? if he is currently discharged he cannot simultaneously be deployed

 

[Pensfan]

I like Pat but there is nothing to suggest the MSP and MSBP theory at this time. We don't have Lisa's medical records nor her older boy's medical records.

Pat may be over analyzing, imo

I respectfully disagree. If the reports are true that Deborah was faking multiple miscarriages, this is a symptom of factitious disorder and Munchausen's is a variation of this disorder (Factitious Disorders, DSM-IV-TR #300.16, 300.19). Taking a child to the doctor for fake illnesses is only ONE of many possible symptoms of Munchausen's.
Read below about the symptom called pseudologia fantastica. (A missing child is an extremely fascinating story as evidenced by all of us reading here on Websleuths.)

From the reference below:

"Typically the patient presenting at the emergency room with a factitious illness has a personality disorder with prominent borderline, masochistic, and at times antisocial traits.

One variety of this severe pattern is known as &#8220;Munchausen&#8217;s syndrome,&#8221; named after the famous German baron who traveled from city to city, telling fascinating tales about himself. Patients with Munchausen&#8217;s syndrome often display what is known as &#8220;pseudologia fantastica,&#8221; or a capacity for spinning out elaborate tales, at times intermixed with some actual facts, which listeners often find, sometimes despite themselves, intriguing and fascinating.

A particularly loathsome variation on factitious illness is the use of a &#8220;proxy.&#8221;

http://www.brown.edu/Courses/BI_278/Other/Clerkship/Didactics/Readings/Factitious Illness.pdf

Pensfan
______
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[jjenny]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html

not sure if this one has been linked to yet (sorry if it has)



eta: I thought he was currently deployed????? if he is currently discharged he cannot simultaneously be deployed

So, is he out of the country or not?

 

[hannahsnana]

Did he rejoin after 2007? Or is he employed by a civilian contractor in Iraq?

 

[Leila]

http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/ne...ares-baby-lisa-case-to-other-child-abductions

Posted: 10/20/2011
Last Updated: 1 hour and 51 minutes ago


BY: Chris Hernandez



I have seen quite a few of our members giving POV's that this case is similar to others and thought that it might be a good thread for those what wish to discuss this aspect.

Mods, please merge if this needs to be within another thread. I looked but didn't see a mod currently online. Thanks!

This is a MSM article but there are links to PB's blog. Ask a mod if we can discuss details of blog before quoting please.

Also, if this remains a thread, please add your tags to the tags for this thread (if it remains a seperate thread) for the cases you wish to discuss in comparison.

Thanks for the link to this article. I think it's indeed interesting that there was a similar case at Fort Bragg during the time that DB was living there with her estranged husband. It could coincidential. But, then again it may not be a coincidence, but a model for what's happened to baby Lisa.

 

[Leila]

Did he rejoin after 2007? Or is he employed by a civilian contractor in Iraq?

That's what I was wondering too..............did he re-enlist, or otherwise deployed as part of a civilian company?

 

[KCMommie]

Pardon, but bolded and snipped by me.

I thought I was the only one! :floorlaugh: Perhaps we need to start a club?

Add me to the list!! The results there may be why this one is so far under my skin. Not to mention - it is close to home. Literally.

 

[Kat]

http://www.kansascity.com/2011/10/21/3222111/case-offers-eerie-parallels.html

not sure if this one has been linked to yet (sorry if it has)



eta: I thought he was currently deployed????? if he is currently discharged he cannot simultaneously be deployed

I saw this and then saw a video of his family being reported as saying he was in Iraq.

How did they get their hands on military records? I don't believe they can-- not without someone having to risk their career violating privacy records.

There's no way JMHO. Privacy violation big time. That newspaper needs to recheck their sources and make sure their facts are accurate, then I'll believe this over his family.

JMHO (talking directly to you nursie cuz I know that you know that they did not have their hands on those records lol).