Patsy and the 911 Call

[duffy]

Ok. Thanks.

Could you point out the 10 felonies. I am curious. Please understand I'm not arguementative I just like to know everything I can. Thanks.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

HOTYH, I would grant that you have a point in this is a horrific crime for a first time offender. 10 or so felonies I'm not sure of maybe you could point each out.

Here's a list of the felonies that were threatened, per your request. Maybe you can find out from an expert on the felonies that were actually committed.

Kidnapping (At this time we have your daughter)
Capital murder (if you want her to see 1997)
Extortion (you will withdraw money)
Capital murder (immediate execution)
Capital murder (beheaded)
Capital murder (If we catch you talking to a stray dog, she dies.)
Capital murder (If you alert bank authorities, she dies.)
Capital murder (If the money is in any way..., she dies.)
Capital murder (You will be scanned..., she dies.)

 

[Lacy Wood]

No, not suspects. Hundreds of thousands of felons/kidnappers/murderers all around the world.

The point is that the JBR homicide was very criminal. I lost count at 10 or so violent felonies either committed or threatened. There was so much criminality involved it could be referred to as hyper-criminal.

The problem with RDI is that there is not even the slightest criminal record, and here you have a hyper-criminal crime scene. Its truly an unbelieveable contrast!

If you weren't attempting to distract attention from the Ramseys by claiming hundreds of thousands of other potential suspects around the world (to dilute the suspect pool) then your statement makes no sense at all.

There was a single train of thought that produced one note. There was one death, not 7 capital murders. If the family did it, then there is one case of first time offenders here. Claims you can minimize the chances of family involvement by extrapolating ten or more felonies out of it is the kind of spin that makes Duffy's question very, very relevant.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

There was one death, not 7 capital murders.

This is maybe the biggest understatement I've ever read here. It makes JBR sound like she died from natural causes.

There was not "a death."

There was a brutal child murder with special circumstances, accompanied by massive amounts of criminal evidence, that included multiple and graphic threats of killing directed not only at JBR but at other innocent people also.

Meanwhile LE can't charge a local because the massive amounts of criminal evidence (body, weapon, RN) left at the scene cant be positively linked.

 

[tipper]

If you weren't attempting to distract attention from the Ramseys by claiming hundreds of thousands of other potential suspects around the world (to dilute the suspect pool) then your statement makes no sense at all.

There was a single train of thought that produced one note. There was one death, not 7 capital murders. If the family did it, then there is one case of first time offenders here. Claims you can minimize the chances of family involvement by extrapolating ten or more felonies out of it is the kind of spin that makes Duffy's question very, very relevant.

You are using the word "suspect." My impression of what HOTYH was saying is there are hundreds of thousands of people capable of committing this crime.

While there may have only been one death, if a suspect was charged there would be multiple charges. Kidnapping, murder, murder in the commission of a felony, sexual assault (perhaps with and without penetration), murder of a minor, sexual assault of a minor, perhaps breaking and entering. If it is established a stun gun was used there could be additional charges based on crimes committed with a weapon. If the Ramseys were charged kidnapping wouldn't apply. Some of the list depends on Colorado law. I'm not sure but there might also be a federal kidnapping charge.

A prosecutor could choose to not specifically charge the "lesser included" but if not, the list of charges could be quite long.

 

[Lacy Wood]

RDI picks on the Ramsey's just because they're nearby. IDI says wait a minute, aren't there hundreds of thousands of felons/murderers/kidnappers in the world?

Read it again, would you please? It does in fact suggest the "Intruder" theory is superior to the RDI because of hundreds of thousands of FMKs in the world.

This is a statement that potential intruders include this number of FMKs "in the world" who are stated to diminish the family potential as suspects. That is the clear purpose of the words stated unless it was mistakenly written. Your later statement "This was not a 'death'...", is creative, but it was a death. Sorry, Tipper, "stacking" charges is what a DA does. Using "stacking" as a defense is novel, but absurd, i.e., a suspect could be considered less likely to have done it because of multiple stacked charges all amounting to the same criminal event...e.g., the defendent might have killed her, but an overstated extortion note and taking her to the basement etc makes it just too much?

The suggestion that a theory "picks on" those found with the body by not concentrating or focusing on a large group of people around the world (or even local or just in the US) without known connection to the family is so logically strange that I wonder if it's unprecedented. It's kind of an entropy like issue...from order to disorder. I would consider a term like "diminishing culpability by creative dilution."

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The suggestion that a theory "picks on" those found with the body by not concentrating or focusing on a large group of people around the world (or even local or just in the US) without known connection to the family is so logically strange that I wonder if it's unprecedented. It's kind of an entropy like issue...from order to disorder. I would consider a term like "diminishing culpability by creative dilution."

Focusing exclusively on the family or other locals could be narrow-minded or naive.

 

[double checker]

All I remember about that phone-call was that she said to Burke, presumably standing in the background:" we're not talking to you".
That remained in my mind, because I couldn't make sense of it. Still can't.

 

[aussiesheila]

There is no doubt in my mind that Patsy was faking it with that 911 call

But as far as calling the police goes - don’t the parents of kidnapped children very often call the police anyway?

Even when a ransom note has said not to?

I think that while this is a very good indication that Patsy was involved in the cover up, I don’t see any evidence in this for John having been involved as well

 

[duffy]

Sheila, I have thought about the same thing as far as a parent calling the police because I really have tried to give the ramsey's the benefit of the doubt at every turn. The only thing in this day and age, in the case of kidnapping you would think the first thought would be to call the FBI. If this r.n. were really taken at face value by the ramsey's I would think they would pay special attention to not calling the police. I would think j.r. would be sophisticated enough to think to call the FBI. Yes? No? Yet the first thing they do is call 911 and in my mind believe the police would be screaming down their street with lights and sirens going. The police dispatcher wasn't told the note said not to call the police. How much attention would you think that would attract?

Also, patsy coming down stairs and stepping gingerly over the r.n. with the presumption of not knowing what it was is just proposterous to me. I would think I would be thinking "Stinking kids don't pick up after themselves" or "Oh look the kids left me a Christmas letter". The way she descibes finding the note it is though she already knew what it was and was retelling the lie she
made up with a guilty conscience.

As far as j.r. not knowing. He had to know at some point or he wouldn't have been able to go directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found. With all of the disention which has taken place between the ramsey's and the Fleet White family, there is something there as well.

 

[Camper]

Sheila, I have thought about the same thing as far as a parent calling the police because I really have tried to give the ramsey's the benefit of the doubt at every turn. The only thing in this day and age, in the case of kidnapping you would think the first thought would be to call the FBI. If this r.n. were really taken at face value by the ramsey's I would think they would pay special attention to not calling the police. I would think j.r. would be sophisticated enough to think to call the FBI. Yes? No? Yet the first thing they do is call 911 and in my mind believe the police would be screaming down their street with lights and sirens going. The police dispatcher wasn't told the note said not to call the police. How much attention would you think that would attract?

Also, patsy coming down stairs and stepping gingerly over the r.n. with the presumption of not knowing what it was is just proposterous to me. I would think I would be thinking "Stinking kids don't pick up after themselves" or "Oh look the kids left me a Christmas letter". The way she descibes finding the note it is though she already knew what it was and was retelling the lie she
made up with a guilty conscience.

As far as j.r. not knowing. He had to know at some point or he wouldn't have been able to go directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found. With all of the disention which has taken place between the ramsey's and the Fleet White family, there is something there as well.

------------->>>Welllllll, WHO would think, particularly the POLICE, NAMELY the Boulder Police Department would ACTUALLY search the house, when the note said JONBENET was KIDNAPPED, meaning she had LEFT THE BUILDING ala Elvis Presley.

LET us recall December 23, when 911 was called and the BPD officer NEVER even got the courtesy of getting the front door opened for him, duh and double duh for BPD, for NOT insisting that he be allowed to ENTER THE PREMISES.



.

 

[duffy]

------------->>>Welllllll, WHO would think, particularly the POLICE, NAMELY the Boulder Police Department would ACTUALLY search the house, when the note said JONBENET was KIDNAPPED, meaning she had LEFT THE BUILDING ala Elvis Presley.

LET us recall December 23, when 911 was called and the BPD officer NEVER even got the courtesy of getting the front door opened for him, duh and double duh for BPD, for NOT insisting that he be allowed to ENTER THE PREMISES.
.

So you're saying the BPD have done a particularly bad job of police work? lol
The one policewoman didn't send j.r. and fleet to look for JonBenet though. She told them to look for something/anything out of place. So j.r. goes directly down stairs, not passing go and brings her body up, asking if she was dead when it was obvious full rigor mortis had set in. Maybe your'e natural mind would have a hard time registering this, I have thought of that.

the 23rd 911 call has always irritated the garbage out of me. Is it not a law in Colorado that if 911 is called the police make sure everyone from that home are ok? I accidently called 911 once when I worked at the bank. Not knowing I had called 911 I hung up and our bank was soon visited with cops entering with weapons drawn!

 

[Zman]

Sheila, I have thought about the same thing as far as a parent calling the police because I really have tried to give the ramsey's the benefit of the doubt at every turn. The only thing in this day and age, in the case of kidnapping you would think the first thought would be to call the FBI. If this r.n. were really taken at face value by the ramsey's I would think they would pay special attention to not calling the police. I would think j.r. would be sophisticated enough to think to call the FBI. Yes? No? Yet the first thing they do is call 911 and in my mind believe the police would be screaming down their street with lights and sirens going. The police dispatcher wasn't told the note said not to call the police. How much attention would you think that would attract?

Also, patsy coming down stairs and stepping gingerly over the r.n. with the presumption of not knowing what it was is just proposterous to me. I would think I would be thinking "Stinking kids don't pick up after themselves" or "Oh look the kids left me a Christmas letter". The way she descibes finding the note it is though she already knew what it was and was retelling the lie she
made up with a guilty conscience.

As far as j.r. not knowing. He had to know at some point or he wouldn't have been able to go directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found. With all of the disention which has taken place between the ramsey's and the Fleet White family, there is something there as well.

LE does not always respond to 911 calls with marked cars and lights going. It depends on the type of call. How many RN's do say to call the police? I would have called the police. It's calling the "friends" that quick which has always bothered me.

 

[BlueCrab]

LE does not always respond to 911 calls with marked cars and lights going. It depends on the type of call. How many RN's do say to call the police? I would have called the police. It's calling the "friends" that quick which has always bothered me.

Zman,

I agree. Calling the friends, plus telling them to "bring someone with you" is telling. It smacks of a premeditated plan to mess up the evidence at the crime scene by getting as many people in the house as they can.

 

[tipper]

Sheila, I have thought about the same thing as far as a parent calling the police because I really have tried to give the ramsey's the benefit of the doubt at every turn. The only thing in this day and age, in the case of kidnapping you would think the first thought would be to call the FBI. If this r.n. were really taken at face value by the ramsey's I would think they would pay special attention to not calling the police. I would think j.r. would be sophisticated enough to think to call the FBI. Yes? No? Yet the first thing they do is call 911 and in my mind believe the police would be screaming down their street with lights and sirens going. The police dispatcher wasn't told the note said not to call the police. How much attention would you think that would attract?

Also, patsy coming down stairs and stepping gingerly over the r.n. with the presumption of not knowing what it was is just proposterous to me. I would think I would be thinking "Stinking kids don't pick up after themselves" or "Oh look the kids left me a Christmas letter". The way she descibes finding the note it is though she already knew what it was and was retelling the lie she
made up with a guilty conscience.

As far as j.r. not knowing. He had to know at some point or he wouldn't have been able to go directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found. With all of the disention which has taken place between the ramsey's and the Fleet White family, there is something there as well.

What is the phone number of your local FBI office? What is it listed under? I have enough trouble finding government phone numbers on a good day. In a panic I think 911 is the only logical number to call. My question is why did BPD keep the FBI at arms length?

What is your source for the idea that John went directly to where JonBenet's body was found?

 

[duffy]

If l.e isn't told the ransom note does not say "Don't call the police" they could very easily have responded with lights and sirens. If the ramsey's really believed this was a r.n. and their daughter could die if they didn't follow instructions patsy never told the 911 dispatcher "Please, they said "Don't call the police"


I'm not suggesting they should have taken the time to look for the FBI's phone number. I posted earlier all you have to do is call the operator, "Operator, please get me the FBI, this is an emergency." It wasn't the FBI I called but l.e. and without a question the operator put me right through to the cops. (I had woke up to screams outside and it was too dark and I was too upset to dial 911)

My source for j.r. going directly down stairs is Detective Linda Arndte and Fleet White.

 

[tipper]

"As far as j.r. not knowing. He had to know at some point or he wouldn't have been able to go directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found"


They did go directly downstairs but they didn't go directly downstairs to where the body was found.

 

[aussiesheila]

Sheila, I have thought about the same thing as far as a parent calling the police because I really have tried to give the ramsey's the benefit of the doubt at every turn. The only thing in this day and age, in the case of kidnapping you would think the first thought would be to call the FBI. If this r.n. were really taken at face value by the ramsey's I would think they would pay special attention to not calling the police. I would think j.r. would be sophisticated enough to think to call the FBI. Yes? No? Yet the first thing they do is call 911 and in my mind believe the police would be screaming down their street with lights and sirens going. The police dispatcher wasn't told the note said not to call the police. How much attention would you think that would attract?

Yes well you may have a point there about calling the FBI. I wouldn’t know how easy it is for a private citizen to call them. Maybe if anyone can call them then you would wonder why the Ramseys didn’t. Does the FBI have an emergency number?

However I do think I would call either them or the police. Even if the note said not to. I would have faith in that the police wouldn’t come around with lights and screaming sirens if they had been alerted to the fact that it was a kidnapping.

Which brings me to one aspect of my theory ie someone in the Boulder Police Department had already been tipped off earlier morning by an influential and well-connected Boulder paedophile that if they were to get a call about a kidnapping from this particular household they were not to bring in the FBI and they were not to investigate the matter too thoroughly.

Also, patsy coming down stairs and stepping gingerly over the r.n. with the presumption of not knowing what it was is just proposterous to me. I would think I would be thinking "Stinking kids don't pick up after themselves" or "Oh look the kids left me a Christmas letter". The way she descibes finding the note it is though she already knew what it was and was retelling the lie she
made up with a guilty conscience.

As for patsy coming down stairs and stepping gingerly over the r.n. with the presumption of not knowing what it was is proposterous to me also since I believe she wrote it and placed it there herself

As far as j.r. not knowing. He had to know at some point or he wouldn't have been able to go directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found.

The statement you made about John going directly downstairs to where JonBenet's body was found is not true. That is an inaccurate statement that must have been made once by someone and people are repeating it as if it was a fact. If you read statements of witnesses you will find that he looked in other places first.

With all of the disention which has taken place between the ramsey's and the Fleet White family, there is something there as well.

Yes I agree. But I don't think the something is Ramsey guilt, it could be guilt on the part of the other though

 

[aussiesheila]

My source for j.r. going directly down stairs is Detective Linda Arndte and Fleet White.

Duffy,
I really think you need to post the actual statements they have made. Then we can discuss this further

 

[Zman]

Duffy,
I really think you need to post the actual statements they have made. Then we can discuss this further

Still say he went there because it's probably the only place he had not looked as of yet. Why? Because FW said he already looked in there. Wonder why FW was right behind JR going down the basement? Trying to get to that room first maybe?