Patsy and the 911 Call

[BlueCrab]

Still say he went there because it's probably the only place he had not looked as of yet. Why? Because FW said he already looked in there. Wonder why FW was right behind JR going down the basement? Trying to get to that room first maybe?

John Ramsey and Fleet White went downstairs to the basement together at about 1:00 PM and the first room they entered was the train room. While in the train room they briefly discussed the broken basement window, and it's when John admitted to Fleet that he had broken the window himself earlier that year. From the train room they entered the hallway which leads past the boiler room on the left and to the wine cellar which was straight ahead. John opened the wine cellar door while Fleet was only several steps behind him. JonBenet's body was toward the middle of the floor but a little to the left and about one or two steps away from the door.

It was about 1:05 PM when John carried JonBenet's body upstairs after spending a few seconds, for some reason or another, trying to fully untie her hands which were bound together tightly at the wrists. He managed to get one hand free, which allowed the ligature to relax, before carrying her upstairs. In the meantime Fleet, who apparently didn't know whether JonBenet was alive or dead, had ran upstairs ahead of John yelling for someone to call an ambulance.

John, incidentally, didn't know that Fleet had searched the basement by himself at around 6:20 that morning, soon after he and Priscilla had arrived at the Ramseys house. Fleet insists that when he opened the wine cellar door and looked in during that early morning 6:20 AM search he would have seen JonBenet's body had it been there. John didn't find out about Fleet's early morning solo search until the police interviews in 1998.

IMO it's the main reason for the falling out between the Ramseys and the Whites. Fleet knows that a Ramsey was involved in the death because he knows John moved the body between the two times Fleet looked into the wine cellar -- once at 6:20 AM and once at 1:05 PM.

BlueCrab

 

[duffy]

I don't know how much of j.r.'s discovery in 98 of Fleet White's statement of having gone into the cellar early morning has caused discention between the ramsey's and the White's but I do know Fleet and Priscilla wrote several letters of protest at the ramsey's pointing a finger at their involvement of JonBenet's death. Somewhere along the line the ramsey's implicated Fleet.

 

[narlacat]

Sometimes I wonder about Fleet White. He was the one that supposedly made the 911 call from the Ramsey's place on the 23rd, but I didnt really buy the explanation for that. His silence is pretty infuriating. Why hasnt he come forward if he knows something?
Why doesnt he want justice for JonBenet?
We didnt even know her and we want justice for her....

 

[Zman]

Sometimes I wonder about Fleet White. He was the one that supposedly made the 911 call from the Ramsey's place on the 23rd, but I didnt really buy the explanation for that. His silence is pretty infuriating. Why hasnt he come forward if he knows something?
Why doesnt he want justice for JonBenet?
We didnt even know her and we want justice for her....

Maybe he doesn't want to dig his own grave.

 

[Nehemiah]

All I remember about that phone-call was that she said to Burke, presumably standing in the background:" we're not talking to you".

John supposedly said that to Burke.

 

[lawman]

anybody have a source for who made the 911 call of 23rd december 1996.

thanks

 

[aussiesheila]

Sometimes I wonder about Fleet White. He was the one that supposedly made the 911 call from the Ramsey's place on the 23rd, but I didnt really buy the explanation for that. His silence is pretty infuriating. Why hasnt he come forward if he knows something?
Why doesnt he want justice for JonBenet?
We didnt even know her and we want justice for her....

Narlacat you are not the only one who wonders about this guy. IMO he is the mastermind behind the coverup and while he may not be guilty of the murder, he is guilty of a lot of things relating to it, things that he does not want revealed publicly.

 

[tipper]

anybody have a source for who made the 911 call of 23rd december 1996.

thanks

I believe it's in both PMPT and ST's book.

 

[Zman]

Well yeah, HOTYH.........we're neither law enforcement officers in Boulder, attorney's, judges etc. But I would say the aformentioned dropped the ball big time.

HOTYH you seem to feel strongly the ramsey's didn't do it am I right? Do you have any point of reasoning and evidence to back it up? I'm just curious because it seems like your arguement is it doesn't make sense that these upper-class, educated people who know this would have been a capitol murder couldn't have done this. See, their social status, education etc just doesn't mean jack to me because there have been bigger and better, and wealthier before them who have committed capitol murders. And got away with it I might add.

Duffy,
What point of reasoning and evidence do you have that says RDI? Besides a bunch of made up conclusions and false facts that you and some other posters take for granted?

Answer this Duffy
Why would you write a ransome note that says we will call at by 10 am and then call the police at 6am?
If you are writing a fake RN in a hurry to cover up the murder of your daughter why would you care if the word deliver or the word pickup appears in the RN?

 

[duffy]

Duffy,
What point of reasoning and evidence do you have that says RDI? Besides a bunch of made up conclusions and false facts that you and some other posters take for granted? uuummmmm. no.

Answer this Duffy
Why would you write a ransome note that says we will call at by 10 am and then call the police at 6am?
If you are writing a fake RN in a hurry to cover up the murder of your daughter why would you care if the word deliver or the word pickup appears in the RN?

This is really weak. If the ransom note weren't fake, why didn't the "kidnappers" ever call? Because they had "accidently" killed her? Since they would have known they killed her, why leave the ransom note at all? Because they needed to have the arm of the law pointed at the "foreign faction" not the ramsey's.

Why would a kidnapper ask for $118,000, the amount of j.r.'s Christmas bonus instead of a much larger amount? Because they knew he had it to spare?

 

[lawman]

thanks tipper, i`ll have another read of them.

 

[GuruJosh]

Narlacat you are not the only one who wonders about this guy. IMO he is the mastermind behind the coverup and while he may not be guilty of the murder, he is guilty of a lot of things relating to it, things that he does not want revealed publicly.

what is it about us aussies? i think FW is weird too, and i think, based on the limited amount i've read, that he tried to avoid co-operation by seeming to "hyper-cooperate", writing his letter, etc etc.

as a personal example of this "guilty cooperation" mindset, i am terribly embarrassed to admit that when i was younger i shoplifted a Sony Discman from a music store. When discovered i went completely overboard, seeming to be in complete cooperation with the store manager, to the point where the whole thing was just forgotten by the store as a misunderstanding. However i was guilty. My hyper-cooperation, my SEEMING cooperation, hid my real knowledge. By talking and talking, i really ended up saying nothing, and kept my secret hidden.

That's what i suspect about FW sometimes. As has been said by others, if he knows something IMPORTANT, then SAY IT. By talking and talking, he's been able to avoid fessing up.

For instance if he knows that Burke did it, SAY IT. If he knows that Patsy did it, SAY IT. If he thinks the Rams are innocent, SAY IT. He talks, he "co-operates", but he never SAYS IT.

And of course the big one... he "didn't see" jbr's corpse in the wine cellar when he looked the first time.

Now Fleet might be totally uninvolved, but i think this goes to show that EITHER fleet OR john had some knowledge of what had happened.

 

[Nehemiah]

Now Fleet might be totally uninvolved, but i think this goes to show that EITHER fleet OR john had some knowledge of what had happened.

You aussies are sticking together, huh?

I agree with you; I just can't decide in my mind which one has the knowledge.

 

[capps]

Then I must be an aussie too,and never knew it!

I believe John confided in Fleet as to who he believes had planned JonBenet's kidnap/murder,Fleet just disgrees with the way John is handling it.

Remember John's words,at a very vulnerable moment,when he just discovered JonBenet's body:"This is an inside job."

 

[aussiesheila]

As has been said by others, if he knows something IMPORTANT, then SAY IT. By talking and talking, he's been able to avoid fessing up.

For instance if he knows that Burke did it, SAY IT. If he knows that Patsy did it, SAY IT. If he thinks the Rams are innocent, SAY IT. He talks, he "co-operates", but he never SAYS IT.

Yes absolutely GuruJosh. It all smells very suspicious to me.

And of course the big one... he "didn't see" jbr's corpse in the wine cellar when he looked the first time.

And who believes this? Not this old Aussie. No way. That was precisely what he DID go down for. To check that the body WAS there - well hidden. Unfortunately that idiotic Patsy had not followed his instructions and had called the police. She wasn't supposed to. She was only supposed to have called HIM, so that just he and his wife would be the ones to come to the house. His wife would take all the Ramseys back to their house for the night of the 26th, while HE under the pretence of continuing to wait for the 'kidnapper' to call, would stay at the Ramseys and organise the removal of the body to some remote corner of the mountains. THEN they would call the police. IMO.

 

[Nehemiah]

And who believes this? Not this weird Aussie. No, that was precisely what he DID go down for. To check that the body WAS there - well hidden. Unfortunately that idiotic Patsy had not followed his instructions and had called the police. She wasn't supposed to. She was only supposed to have called him so that he and his wife could come over and take them all to their house while he waited for the 'kidnapper' to call (and organised the removal of the body to some remote corner of the mountains) THEN they would call the police.

What is your theory of JB's murder?

 

[capps]

Nehemiah,

Aussiesheila has posted her theory on the Members' Theories thread.

I will be posting my theory there soon also.
I think it's a good idea that all posters who have a theory to post it there ... something we can refer back to when discussing.

 

[Jayelles]

What is the phone number of your local FBI office? What is it listed under? I have enough trouble finding government phone numbers on a good day. In a panic I think 911 is the only logical number to call. My question is why did BPD keep the FBI at arms length?

What is your source for the idea that John went directly to where JonBenet's body was found?

On what do you base your opinions that the BPD kept the FBI at arms length?

The FBI were involved at the start because it was a suspected kidnapping - a federal offence because it may cross state borders. When the body was found it became murder - no state boundaries were crossed and therefore not the FBI's jurisdiction.

ST's book descibes in detail the advice that the BDP took on board from higher agencies. It's a pity that the FBI didn't investigate this case. I doubt they would have cow-towed to local politics if they had.

 

[Jayelles]

Focusing exclusively on the family or other locals could be narrow-minded or naive.

Since most murders are committed by someone known to the victim, it makes sense to eliminate those people first. The reason the police "focused" on the Ramseys was because they were evasive and unco-operative with normal procedure - a red flag.

I suspect that the Ramseys behaved in the way they did because of John Ramsey's ego, nevertheless, it is a common tactic of a guilty person to use offence as a defence.

(Wife to husband:-"Are you having an affair?"

Errant husband:- "I can't believe you have such a low opinion of me to think that I would do such a thing. You have such a suspicious mind. I find this whole conversation sickening...." )

 

[Jayelles]

Maybe he doesn't want to dig his own grave.

If Fleet White was involved then so must be his array of alibis (remember that the Whites' had a house full of guests that night).

Fleet White may be an unusual character for a whole range of reasons, but I do not think for one minute that he snuck out of his house after a joyous day of entertaining and celebrating and brutally slaughtered his best friend's beautiful child in her own home.

Fleet White's DNA was tested and he was cleared on the DNA results. ANyone who is willing to believe in his involvement in this murder, must also therefore be willing to believe that the DNA was not the killers and accept that the Ramseys are not cleared by the DNA either.