Patsy Ramsey

[Venom]

A few weeks ago, my kids (2 girls ages 4 and 7) were playing with their Doc McStuffins toys and my oldest went in and got a q-tip to "clean" my 4 year olds ears. Well she stuck the q tip into her ear...my 4 year old screamed. I went running and saw that her ear was bleeding. My 6 year old was crying and upset. She kept saying, "Mommy everytime I think about M's ear my belly hurts." She was that upset over it, and stayed that way for days. After we got home from the doctors, she asked how M was. It ended up M's ear drum was ruptured.
I'd think any sibling would be concerned for another if they knew something was wrong.

 

[Anti-K]

the soft/green fecal material proved that food had traveled her digestive tract

PR was asked if JB washed her hands after eating the crab, because of any residual slime, and her response was that she did not know if JB washed her hands after eating. she didn't take the opportunity to say that she was unaware whether or not JB had eaten crab/anything

if she ate nothing at the White's party then the child went without dinner and was put to bed without being fed something later, which is a sure recipe for waking up hungry and wanting a snack after sleeping a little while




it's true that his parents were not there but NP/his grandmother was. he outwardly appeared to be indifferent to the situation his family was in. he asked about Patterson's watch, and said he was looking forward to their previously-scheduled flight because they lit fires in the Charlevoix fireplace; the conversation was interrupted at various points by BR's interest in nibbling at a sandwich

18 TRIP DEMUTH: Was JonBenet hungry at the
19 time? Did she eat the cracked crab?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: I can't tell you. You know,
21 we got to the house, the kids start running around and
22 we kind of don't --

Crab was definitely set aside for Jonbenet, but the children were set up at their own table. Here Mrs Ramsey clearly says – I can’t tell you - that she doesn’t know if Jonbenet ate any of it.

12 THOMAS HANEY: Would she have
13 washed her hands at a particular time?
14 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, at dinner, she
15 rarely washed her hands.
16 THOMAS HANEY: Would she, or
17 perhaps she had been eating crab and you have
18 that slimy stuff all over?
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah, I think she is
20 going to wash her hands. But I didn't see her.
21 I don't know.

She didn’t see her; she doesn’t know.

Some have speculated that the thick, slimy stuff found in the stomach represents the crab. Maybe it does, but I don’t know. It’s all a mystery to me.

But, you’re right: if she ate nothing at the White's party then the child went without dinner and was put to bed without being fed something later, which is a sure recipe for waking up hungry and wanting a snack after sleeping a little while.
...

AK

 

[Anti-K]

Nah. The absolute goes to the winner. I said "if I remember right", implying uncertainty.

You, however, stated certainty (which is wrong).

Ball in your "I'm sure of my position" court

“The absolute goes to the winner.” I have no idea what that means.

“If I remember right at some point Patsy claimed no knowledge of pineapple in the house.” I do know what this means. It means, as you remember it, at some point Patsy claimed no knowledge of pineapple in the house.
Your memory is not supported by the evidence as we know it.

You can claim uncertainty, but this is to admit that your memory may be inaccurate. I am simply confirming that for you.

Of course, it should be very easy to confirm the accuracy of your memory, but shifting the burden (to me) or hiding behind “if I remember right” doesn’t do that, it doesn’t corroborate your (uncertain) memory and it doesn’t substantiate your uncertain-memory-based claim in any way.
...

AK

 

[gramcracker]

I don't understand your point. Patsy said she did not know if she washed her hands or had eaten anything.

I had replied to this

The autopsy does not show that Jonbenet digested the cracked crab and no one seems to know if she actually ate any of it (or anything) at the Whites.

with

the soft/green fecal material proved that food had traveled her digestive tract

PR was asked if JB washed her hands after eating the crab, because of any residual slime, and her response was that she did not know if JB washed her hands after eating. she didn't take the opportunity to say that she was unaware whether or not JB had eaten crab/anything

if she ate nothing at the White's party then the child went without dinner and was put to bed without being fed something later, which is a sure recipe for waking up hungry and wanting a snack after sleeping a little while

and then you replied to me

I don't understand your point. Patsy said she did not know if she washed her hands or had eaten anything.

that is incorrect

in '97 PR said they had lunch on the 25th but she didn't remember what it was. she said PW had many dining tables set up that evening and everyone had a seat

TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for the pineapple in her body?

PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was crab. I remember crab.

TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing you recall that she ate.

PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.

in '98 she said they probably skipped lunch because of their late breakfast and the early dinner party

TRIP DEMUTH: But you don't remember any other servings between the pancakes and the cracked crab?

PATSY RAMSEY: No.

in neither instance did she take the opportunity to say that JB, to her knowledge, did not eat crab

the food intake she denies is that which the digestion timeline indicates occurring in her home, with or without her knowledge

reading the depos/transcripts, I was struck by the fact that her main sticking point was that her children would not have used "that set up" found on the kitchen table for a snack/meal. I mean, JB at the age of 6 cannot wipe her own behind after toileting and BR, at nearly the age of 10, leaves whittling debris all over the house as he goes along ... but if they had set that table it would have been done properly. GMAB

 

[Linda7NJ]

A few weeks ago, my kids (2 girls ages 4 and 7) were playing with their Doc McStuffins toys and my oldest went in and got a q-tip to "clean" my 4 year olds ears. Well she stuck the q tip into her ear...my 4 year old screamed. I went running and saw that her ear was bleeding. My 6 year old was crying and upset. She kept saying, "Mommy everytime I think about M's ear my belly hurts." She was that upset over it, and stayed that way for days. After we got home from the doctors, she asked how M was. It ended up M's ear drum was ruptured.
I'd think any sibling would be concerned for another if they knew something was wrong.

Compassion, empathy and feelings of guilt are normal and healthy!

I'd be super concerned if a child didn't display those...and Burke sure didn't.
Imo


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[Linda7NJ]

Have you read one shred of evidence that says otherwise?
If you find it and link it, I will read and consider it.




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[BOESP]

Smit and Thomas (and, others) made note of the pineapple (Smit called it a bugaboo), but I find fault with your assessment of their positon regarding it.
...

AK

So, why (in your opinion) did Lou Smit call the pineapple a bugaboo?

What is the fault of my assessment concerning Steve Thomas's opinion that the pineapple was important in establishing a timeline?

 

[lawstudent]

What was Burke told before being sent away? If I saw my parents upset, they gave me a brief explanation, and then I was sent away to family friends, I'd imagine those friends would try and keep things relatively normal while everything was still being sorted out. Offer a snack, watch some TV, ask if I needed anything. I don't think I'd bring up the subject much - if my parents are upset about something, they would be a lot more upset to hear I was talking to others about it - they want to focus on holding it together, not talk it out. Obviously, this situation was so extreme that it would be different, but a young child may not quite know what the boundaries are. And some families are very demonstrative about these things. But it definitely would vary depending on the family/child. Certainly, if he never showed any emotion throughout life, that's a big red flag. But the situations in which kids feel shame or compassion or fear can seem kind of nonsensical - they may have a strong reaction to a minor situation, and shut down in a major one.

One time my little brother woke up with what turned out to be a pretty serious infection stemming from a minor cut. I got sent to family friends with minimal explanation while they went to the hospital (the husband was a doctor and whisked them all away). Later on I could tell my mom was all worked up and if I said the slightest thing wrong she was going to freak, and I ended up getting jealous and saying "it's not like you can die of an infection!" And they were like "um, yes you can." 8 year old logic! I should have been worried and compassionate, but I was aggravated because I didn't really understand what was going on and my mom was so upset and if I asked the wrong question I knew I was going to get yelled at. I don't think I felt guilt until I was teen - before that, it was shame. Now I always feel guilty and am very compassionate, but looking back at me then, I seemed pretty cold. I think I was just self-centered - some kids are much more detached than others.

 

[Anti-K]

What I get from it is that Mrs Ramsey thinks that Jonbenet ate the crab, but she doesn’t know that Jonbenet ate the crab.

I agree that the sticking point was the “set up.” The setup is what Mrs Ramsey denies. On the pineapple itself:
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet's system.
0479
1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.

I’m not sure that the setup is a setup. The bowl the spoon, the glass, the tea bag, the tissue – these could all be nothing more than items that accumulated over the course of a day (or, two).
...

AK

 

[2 percent]

Anyone notice that this thread gets awfully personal?

We are all here to help - not jab each other with our posts.

Via Kindle, like a true Amazon junkie

Yes. It does.
To paraphrase Meg Ryan, everything is personal.
When you put yourself out there stating opinions, it's personal. When you defend them from other personal opinions, openly stated, it's personal. Etc.

No offense, of course.

 

[Anti-K]

So, why (in your opinion) did Lou Smit call the pineapple a bugaboo?

What is the fault of my assessment concerning Steve Thomas's opinion that the pineapple was important in establishing a timeline?

Bugaboo: Because no one knows when or under what circumstances she ate it.

Timeline: As a timeline referent the pineapple is virtually useless because we don’t know what time she ate it, we don’t know what time she was attacked and the transition time between these unknown points is broad in range and conditional (age, health, emotional state, activity, etc).
...

AK

 

[2 percent]

“The absolute goes to the winner.” I have no idea what that means.

“If I remember right at some point Patsy claimed no knowledge of pineapple in the house.” I do know what this means. It means, as you remember it, at some point Patsy claimed no knowledge of pineapple in the house.
Your memory is not supported by the evidence as we know it.

You can claim uncertainty, but this is to admit that your memory may be inaccurate. I am simply confirming that for you.

Of course, it should be very easy to confirm the accuracy of your memory, but shifting the burden (to me) or hiding behind “if I remember right” doesn’t do that, it doesn’t corroborate your (uncertain) memory and it doesn’t substantiate your uncertain-memory-based claim in any way.
...

AK

I'm not wrong. Patsy said she didn't remember buying pineapple.

TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
22 TOM HANEY: Just still talking about the bowl
23 itself and the pineapple, and there is probably no way
24 to determine from the photograph whether this was fresh
25 or canned. Do you have either or both in stock at the
0476
1 house there, did you?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.
13 TOM HANEY: Did you have bags or however it
14 came?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It usually went
16 bad pretty quick, so it didn't -- you know, I didn't
17 keep it around laying around very long. You know what
18 I mean?
19 TOM HANEY: So people ate it fairly regularly
20 or consistently?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't buy it terribly
22 often. But when I did, I bought usually bought that
23 fresh and serve it out in little portions.
24 This looks weird to me, a bowl with a huge
25 spoon like that with pineapple in it.

1 TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
14 like that.
15 TOM HANEY: Would you do that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple

1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
18 TOM HANEY: Let's --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, but it doesn't
20 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet' s system.

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it

1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.
19 TOM HANEY: Have you, in the course of the
20 last 18 months, talked to any pathologists or read any
21 reports about pineapple in a body or how long it takes
22 for a body to digest materials?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just have heard.
24 PATRICK BURKE: That is in the answers. He
25 is not trying to invade the attorney-client privilege

1 or work product. He said he is asking you independent
2 of --
3 TOM HANEY: Right. Not anything you got from
4 Mr. Burke or Mr. Ferman (phonetic).
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just know that I heard
6 somewhere there was pineapple in her stomach.
7 TOM HANEY: Right. And, again, I am no
8 scientist or anything, but from what we are told,
9 pineapple goes in at X time, and a certain amount of
10 time later, it is gone. Okay. It goes through a
11 particular process, and there is a way to estimate
12 times based on that depending on where it is in the
13 body.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: When she would have eaten it,
15 so you can tell somewhere in there?
16 TOM HANEY: We are --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Working on that, okay. So
18 when did -- what time did she eat this?
19 TOM HANEY: Well, I am really not at liberty
20 to discuss that part of it with you now. Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: All right. Do where we know
22 this is what she ate?
23 TOM HANEY: We are pretty sure it was
24 pineapple.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: This pineapple?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, I don't think that science
2 has come quite that far that you could say.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, can they tell whether
4 it was fresh or canned?
5 TOM HANEY: Well --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because canned, it is like
7 gooey, you know.
8 TOM HANEY: There is some different
9 consistency, but I don't know.
10 But what concerns me is how that bowl with
11 that pineapple, A, got there, and how the pineapple got
12 in JonBenet's system.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know truly.
14 TOM HANEY: Take a little breather from the
15 pineapple and let's talk about the glass, do you drink
16 hot tea

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer."

 

[Linda7NJ]

Another thing I find incredibly disturbing ontop of so many other things...
Patsy knew there were smears of feces all over and left in panties and pants...and yet she didn't make sure her children washed their hands before they ate finger foods!!!





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[gramcracker]

^^^ and touching things like doorknobs, drawer pulls, light switches, TV remotes, videos, game controllers, and toys and books. which is bad enough in their own home, not to mention the soggy crotch of poor JB's clothing wherever she sat. but those unclean hands in other people's homes and wherever communal food is available (at home or away) is just yucky

it gives new meaning to the term "pageant scrub"

 

[Meara]

Actually, if I recall, JR claimed the basement was rather warm because of the furnace. I believe it was mentioned as a reason why there seemed to be no rush to repair the broken window which JR claimed to have broken the previous summer.
The room the kids played in was the train room (the room with the furnace, broken window and suitcase) where a set of electric trains was permanently set up. I recall one of the parents saying it was usually BR who played in there with his friends.

That's correct.....and leads to a curious puzzle.

The Rams have a basement that's uncomfortably warm and stuffy in the winter.

They have to open the train room window a litte to let in fresh cold air.

Sometime during the morning of the 26th, JR reportedly goes alone to the train room and closes the window, which is open about an inch.

He doesn't tell police about this until seven months later.

Did JR really close the window? FW, during his first trip to the basement, didn't notice whether the windw was open or closed.

If the window was open, why did JR close it when, at the time, police were looking for evidence of an intruder?

JR told police the doors and window were secured on the night of the 25th, so perhaps he didn't want them to notice that that window was open. But wait. If that were true, why tell them it was open and he closed it? Why mention it at all?

Maybe he closed the window because, despite the heat from the furnace, the basement had grown cool on the sub zero night of the 25th. But, why bother to close the window an inch to conserve heat when there was a gaping hole in the pane?

What could his purpose have been in telling this story?

:scared:

 

[Meara]

Yet another less than stellar/negligent parenting example...if you believe Patsy.

I couldn't disagree more.
IMO any NORMAL 9 year old would be concerned for his sibling and wonder what the heck was going on based on the police presence in his own home.

Could this be the real reason BR was bundled off to the White's? Speculation tends to run the other way: Why risk letting him go when he might spill incriminating information about the family and events? But what if the greater risk would have been to let him stay at home, where the detectives could observe him. They would surely have seen his marked lack of concern for his little sister and curiosity or fear about what had happened to her. And perhaps they would have noticed a coolness between him and his parents. Police couldn't become suspicious about behavior they were prevented from seeing.

 

[Mama2JML]

I'm not wrong. Patsy said she didn't remember buying pineapple.

TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
22 TOM HANEY: Just still talking about the bowl
23 itself and the pineapple, and there is probably no way
24 to determine from the photograph whether this was fresh
25 or canned. Do you have either or both in stock at the
0476
1 house there, did you?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.
13 TOM HANEY: Did you have bags or however it
14 came?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It usually went
16 bad pretty quick, so it didn't -- you know, I didn't
17 keep it around laying around very long. You know what
18 I mean?
19 TOM HANEY: So people ate it fairly regularly
20 or consistently?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't buy it terribly
22 often. But when I did, I bought usually bought that
23 fresh and serve it out in little portions.
24 This looks weird to me, a bowl with a huge
25 spoon like that with pineapple in it.

1 TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
14 like that.
15 TOM HANEY: Would you do that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple

1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
18 TOM HANEY: Let's --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, but it doesn't
20 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet' s system.

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it

1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.
19 TOM HANEY: Have you, in the course of the
20 last 18 months, talked to any pathologists or read any
21 reports about pineapple in a body or how long it takes
22 for a body to digest materials?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just have heard.
24 PATRICK BURKE: That is in the answers. He
25 is not trying to invade the attorney-client privilege

1 or work product. He said he is asking you independent
2 of --
3 TOM HANEY: Right. Not anything you got from
4 Mr. Burke or Mr. Ferman (phonetic).
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just know that I heard
6 somewhere there was pineapple in her stomach.
7 TOM HANEY: Right. And, again, I am no
8 scientist or anything, but from what we are told,
9 pineapple goes in at X time, and a certain amount of
10 time later, it is gone. Okay. It goes through a
11 particular process, and there is a way to estimate
12 times based on that depending on where it is in the
13 body.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: When she would have eaten it,
15 so you can tell somewhere in there?
16 TOM HANEY: We are --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Working on that, okay. So
18 when did -- what time did she eat this?
19 TOM HANEY: Well, I am really not at liberty
20 to discuss that part of it with you now. Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: All right. Do where we know
22 this is what she ate?
23 TOM HANEY: We are pretty sure it was
24 pineapple.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: This pineapple?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, I don't think that science
2 has come quite that far that you could say.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, can they tell whether
4 it was fresh or canned?
5 TOM HANEY: Well --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because canned, it is like
7 gooey, you know.
8 TOM HANEY: There is some different
9 consistency, but I don't know.
10 But what concerns me is how that bowl with
11 that pineapple, A, got there, and how the pineapple got
12 in JonBenet's system.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know truly.
14 TOM HANEY: Take a little breather from the
15 pineapple and let's talk about the glass, do you drink
16 hot tea

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer."

I'm not sure why you've quoted this portion of PR's interview b/c it doesn't support your original argument, that Patsy denied buying the pineapple, AND it doesn't support your modified argument that she didn't remember buying the pineapple. [modsnip]

 

[Anti-K]

I'm not wrong. Patsy said she didn't remember buying pineapple.

TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
22 TOM HANEY: Just still talking about the bowl
23 itself and the pineapple, and there is probably no way
24 to determine from the photograph whether this was fresh
25 or canned. Do you have either or both in stock at the
0476
1 house there, did you?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.
13 TOM HANEY: Did you have bags or however it
14 came?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It usually went
16 bad pretty quick, so it didn't -- you know, I didn't
17 keep it around laying around very long. You know what
18 I mean?
19 TOM HANEY: So people ate it fairly regularly
20 or consistently?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't buy it terribly
22 often. But when I did, I bought usually bought that
23 fresh and serve it out in little portions.
24 This looks weird to me, a bowl with a huge
25 spoon like that with pineapple in it.

1 TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
14 like that.
15 TOM HANEY: Would you do that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple

1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
18 TOM HANEY: Let's --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, but it doesn't
20 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet' s system.

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it

1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.
19 TOM HANEY: Have you, in the course of the
20 last 18 months, talked to any pathologists or read any
21 reports about pineapple in a body or how long it takes
22 for a body to digest materials?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just have heard.
24 PATRICK BURKE: That is in the answers. He
25 is not trying to invade the attorney-client privilege

1 or work product. He said he is asking you independent
2 of --
3 TOM HANEY: Right. Not anything you got from
4 Mr. Burke or Mr. Ferman (phonetic).
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just know that I heard
6 somewhere there was pineapple in her stomach.
7 TOM HANEY: Right. And, again, I am no
8 scientist or anything, but from what we are told,
9 pineapple goes in at X time, and a certain amount of
10 time later, it is gone. Okay. It goes through a
11 particular process, and there is a way to estimate
12 times based on that depending on where it is in the
13 body.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: When she would have eaten it,
15 so you can tell somewhere in there?
16 TOM HANEY: We are --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Working on that, okay. So
18 when did -- what time did she eat this?
19 TOM HANEY: Well, I am really not at liberty
20 to discuss that part of it with you now. Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: All right. Do where we know
22 this is what she ate?
23 TOM HANEY: We are pretty sure it was
24 pineapple.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: This pineapple?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, I don't think that science
2 has come quite that far that you could say.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, can they tell whether
4 it was fresh or canned?
5 TOM HANEY: Well --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because canned, it is like
7 gooey, you know.
8 TOM HANEY: There is some different
9 consistency, but I don't know.
10 But what concerns me is how that bowl with
11 that pineapple, A, got there, and how the pineapple got
12 in JonBenet's system.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know truly.
14 TOM HANEY: Take a little breather from the
15 pineapple and let's talk about the glass, do you drink
16 hot tea

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer."

This is almost funny. Not only does this not support your claim, but it reinforces exactly what the rest of us have been saying!!
...

AK

 

[Linda7NJ]

This is almost funny. Not only does this not support your claim, but it reinforces exactly what the rest of us have been saying!!

...



AK

Hmmm.

I don't understand the confusion.

Patsy had prior knowledge JonBenet had pineapple in her system.

She knew JonBenet liked pineapple.

The knew the bowl & spoon were household items.

She did the shopping, she knew there was pineapple in the fridge.

Does Patsy offer the most reasonable & logical explanation as to how it got there? Something like, "I didn't feed her pineapple when we got home, looking at that bowl with the big spoon, she must have gotten up at some point and ate it herself because the set up looks like something a child would do"?


No.

Even the most simple mundane question ...it turned into a ridiculous trip down a rabbit hole. Ramsey style.

All IMO






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bettybaby00]

:takeabow: ^^^^^