Patsy Ramsey

[Meara]

Honestly, I do not know how she obtained the sealed deposition but I have suspicions. Bear in mind, I am no legal expert and don't pretend to be. What I do know is, for a fee, there is a legal process anyone can follow to obtain court transcripts that are not sealed via legal filings seeking permission from a judge. Those same processes would be followed for obtaining sealed documents with one important catch. You must gain permission from the witness whose deposition you want. Since FW requested up front and received permission for his depo to be sealed, it is doubtful he would provide his permission to anyone hoping to unseal it.

With that in mind, who rightfully obtained copies of the sealed deposition?

• The court filed a copy of the sealed deposition.
• Certainly the court reporter who transcribed the interrogation session maintained a copy of their original shorthand, as required of CRs.
• The plaintiff's and the defendant's lawyers, who were present, would obtain a copy of the transcript.
• The witness is provided a copy, for a fee, of course.

I am so glad you asked the question because someone provided that information to her. Wouldn't it have to have been someone in the above list?

DeDee, great research and post. Who, indeed? My guess, from this list, would be an attorney. However, a choice to add would be someone with a low profile and access but no direct participation in the case - say, a file clerk or office assistant, acting alone or compelled by/on behalf of a superior. It's amazing to me that sealed testimony was leaked and posted on an Internet forum and, apparently, no one looked into it.

Sorry for the late reply. I'm reading/posting in fits and starts at the moment. It's good to give this a bump, though.

 

[chlban]

You know if I received that ransom note, I would have thought it was some type of sick prank by a neighborhood kid. Or maybe some prank that JonBenet is in on. and.............Look in every room in the house to see if she was hiding somewhere. Or even wake up Burke to see if this was a joke played by JAR.Their 100% acceptance of it as the real thing is puzzling.

BBM. I don't know that I would think it was a prank, but I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that I would wake up everyone in the house. He could have heard something, seen something, known something. He was nine years old, certainly old enough to possibly be of assistance.

Although 95% of the time I lean toward Patsy this is one big area that makes me suspect Burke of the head blow at least. Because I cannot fathom why they were so insistent that he slept through it, unless they just wanted to confirm, as much as possible, that Burke knew absolutely nothing.

 

[chlban]

Ransom:

ran·som [ran-suhm] Show IPA
noun
1.
the redemption of a prisoner, slave, or kidnapped person, of captured goods, etc., for a price.
2.
the sum or price paid or demanded.
3.
a means of deliverance or rescue from punishment for sin, especially the payment of a redemptive fine.
verb (used with object)
4.
to redeem from captivity, bondage, detention, etc., by paying a demanded price.
5.
to release or restore on receipt of a ransom.
6.
to deliver or redeem from punishment for sin

Ok, so this is the definition of ransom. This is what I know ransom to be.

A ransom note would follow, IMO, that someone has been kidnapped (JonBenet) and a price is being requested for her safe return, along with instructions. Instructions for ransom would be very significant, to me. Not to mention the fact these are the people that have my beloved baby. Following their instructions- at least understanding these instructions would be of paramount importance to me, there would actually be nothing MORE IMPORTANT in that moment- these people/person HAVE MY CHILD!

If I am the receiver of a ransom note I am going to be given directions (wether in the note or by further instruction) how much money (ransom) is demanded and the directions I need to follow to get the kidnapped person/child (in this case JonBenet) back.

The people that wrote this note... these instructions- have my precious child but I.Do.Not.Bother.To.Read.Every.Word.Of.What.They.Have.To.Say!

No way.

The people here that say otherwise are grasping at straws- ridiculous, tenuous straws.

I would GIVE ANYTHING to have information from anyone alive who ever received a ransom note- for kidnap- that would buy the story of the Ramsey's.

The fact that this WAS a three page letter, IMO, would mean there would be A LOT of instructions to follow in it.

And- there was.

I have no problem with the Ramsey's calling the police- it is the alleged non reading past the first page and calling friends, doctors and clergy.

Give me a break.

How convenient this "excuse" was for the Ramsey's.

Ludicrous. Ridiculous. Honestly.

ITA. If I may just add. You wake up to a nightmare. Your precious child has just been kidnapped. I might well be so horrified by the first page that I would contact LE immediately. Then, i would read every single word, over and over. But all that aside, who the heck thinks of calling friends over?

I'm sorry, We have close family friends. We spend holidays with them and have for years, have been there for deaths, births, weddings, divorces, etc. But in the immediate aftermath of discovering my child missing and RN on the stairs, I am quite sure calling anyone, other than LE, would be the furthest thing from my mind. I especially would not be calling them from the phone that I would expect the kidnappers to make contact on and back in '96 we didn't all walk around with our cell phones permanently attached to ourselves.

I can see calling them from another phone, later in the morning when we were in "waiting" mode. But, immediately? No way.

 

[InstantProof]

For all they knew they were calling the kidnapper over.

 

[Mama2JML]

There is no modified argument. I think I was clear that didn't buy and didn't recall buying are the same thing. But if it's not clear....It's the same thing.

So, the portion of Patsy's '98 interview,you cited somehow leads you to concur that Patsy claimed:

"I didn't buy pineapple." -&/or- "I don't recall buying pineapple."

These two statements are not the same. Similar, perhaps, but the latter statement can also be interpreted to mean:

"I don't remember if I bought pineapple."

I'm not wrong. Patsy said she didn't remember buying pineapple.

Fine. I accept your interpretation as valid. BUT, I would really like to understand how you've determined this excerpt of Patsy's interview supports your argument: ***Explain your BBM, too, please... :waitasec:

TOM HANEY: Those bowls, you described them
4 being on the cabinet or a shelf, and you demonstrated
5 it was higher. Is that something JonBenet could have
6 reached?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
8 TOM HANEY: Okay. The contents of the bowl,
9 does that appear to be pineapple to you?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Could be. Could be.
11 TOM HANEY: That is what has been described
12 as --
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Is it? It could be.
14 TOM HANEY: Do you eat or does anybody in the
15 family eat a bowl of pineapple?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, the kids both ate
17 pineapple, but I would never serve a bowl like that of
18 pineapple. I would think I would put two or three
19 pieces on their plate with the rest of their food or
20 something, because, I mean, it looks weird to set out a
21 bowl like that.
22 TOM HANEY: Just still talking about the bowl
23 itself and the pineapple, and there is probably no way
24 to determine from the photograph whether this was fresh
25 or canned. Do you have either or both in stock at the
0476
1 house there, did you?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: Usually I would buy those -- I
3 bought pineapple, it was fresh pineapple that had been
4 peeled or whatever they do to it, and core it and cut
5 it up a little bit, or some that had been fresh that
6 was sealed there in the produce area.
7 TOM HANEY: What store did you buy this from?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Safeway is usually where I buy
9 it from.
10 TOM HANEY: It is the fresh pineapple that
11 they do all the work for you?
12 PATSY RAMSEY: Correct.
13 TOM HANEY: Did you have bags or however it
14 came?
15 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know. It usually went
16 bad pretty quick, so it didn't -- you know, I didn't
17 keep it around laying around very long. You know what
18 I mean?
19 TOM HANEY: So people ate it fairly regularly
20 or consistently?
21 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I didn't buy it terribly
22 often. But when I did, I bought usually bought that
23 fresh and serve it out in little portions.
24 This looks weird to me, a bowl with a huge
25 spoon like that with pineapple in it.

1 TOM HANEY: Again, JonBenet you said couldn't
2 reach the bowl. If she wanted pineapple, would she get
3 it out herself.
4 PATSY RAMSEY: Out of the refrigerator, I
5 don't -- no. That wouldn't be something she would
6 really go to.
7 TOM HANEY: Did she like pineapple?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: She liked it.
9 TOM HANEY: Did she eat it as a snack?
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, we had so many other
11 things that she had for a snack first, you know, before
12 she got pineapple. But she wouldn't do this. She
13 would not have a bowl like this with a big huge spoon
14 like that.
15 TOM HANEY: Would you do that?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
17 TOM HANEY: Would --
18 PATSY RAMSEY: That is weird.
19 TOM HANEY: Would John do that?
20 PATSY RAMSEY: No.
21 TOM HANEY: How about Burke?
22 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He has a sweet tooth. He
23 doesn't like fruit too much. He likes pineapple a
24 little bit, strawberries a little bit, but he would not
25 pour himself a big bowl of pineapple

1 TOM HANEY: If he got up in the middle of the
2 night would he eat something like that?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No. He would eat something
4 chocolate.
5 TOM HANEY: Could he reach the bowl?
6 PATSY RAMSEY: He could reach the bowl.
7 TOM HANEY: The spoon, where is it kept?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: In the silverware drawer in
9 there in the kitchen to the right of the range.
10 But, see, if the kids were making a snack for
11 themselves, even if they were, that is a huge serving
12 spoon. They, you know, they use a little spoon.
13 Now, I don't know if some of those women, you
14 know, Priscilla and them were there that morning, it
15 was early, and I don't know whether they were, you
16 know, fixing things for people to eat, but that doesn't
17 look right to me.
18 TOM HANEY: Let's --
19 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know, but it doesn't
20 look right to me.
21 TOM HANEY: When is the last time that you
22 know of that JonBenet ate pineapple?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know.
24 TOM HANEY: There were the remains of
25 pineapple in JonBenet' s system.

1 PATSY RAMSEY: I had heard that, yeah.
2 TOM HANEY: This is not a shock to you?
3 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it is not. No.
4 TOM HANEY: Okay.
5 PATSY RAMSEY: But I did not do this. If she
6 ate that, somebody put that there. I don't know when
7 she would have eaten it. She was sound asleep when we
8 got home.
9 TOM HANEY: And you said that earlier you
10 cleaned the table off after the breakfast.
11 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
12 TOM HANEY: That wasn't there.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: No, it wasn't.
14 TOM HANEY: Is there some way to account for
15 the pineapple in her body?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: Not to my knowledge, unless
17 she -- you know, I can't remember what was served over
18 at the White's. Does anybody know? Except there was
19 crab. I remember crab.
20 TOM HANEY: That seems to be the only thing
21 you recall that she ate.
22 PATSY RAMSEY: Yeah.
23 Did you fingerprint that?
24 TOM HANEY: Yes.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: Did it show anything?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, what would that tell you,
2 somebody's fingerprints were on it.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, if they weren't mine, if
4 they were not John's, maybe somebody fed her pineapple.
5 TOM HANEY: What if those fingerprints
6 belonged to one of the two of you?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I don't know.
8 TOM HANEY: Well, wait a minute. You started
9 that line.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: I didn't put the bowl there,
11 okay. I did not put the bowl there. I would not do
12 this, set it.
13 TOM HANEY: Let's go back to your line of
14 reasoning here. If they were not -- now talk to me.
15 PATSY RAMSEY: Okay.
16 TOM HANEY: Look at me. If they are not
17 yours and they are not John's, then they would be
18 somebody else's.
19 PATSY RAMSEY: Right.
20 TOM HANEY: But now I am telling you they are
21 not somebody else's. Those prints belong to one of the
22 two of you.
23 PATSY RAMSEY: They do? You are sure? Well,
24 I don't know. I did not put that there. No.
25 TOM HANEY: Now, so could we just slough it

1 off like that, because --
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know how else to -- I
3 mean, I would not do this set like this. JonBenet
4 could not reach a bowl that size.
5 TOM HANEY: Wait. Talk to me. Your line of
6 reasoning, and this was your logic a couple sentences
7 ago, they are not yours, they are not John's, then they
8 are somebody else's, whoever put it there. I'm telling
9 you that it isn't somebody else's.
10 PATSY RAMSEY: Well --
11 TOM HANEY: You know sometimes the simplest,
12 most obscure little thing could be so significant.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer.
19 TOM HANEY: Have you, in the course of the
20 last 18 months, talked to any pathologists or read any
21 reports about pineapple in a body or how long it takes
22 for a body to digest materials?
23 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just have heard.
24 PATRICK BURKE: That is in the answers. He
25 is not trying to invade the attorney-client privilege

1 or work product. He said he is asking you independent
2 of --
3 TOM HANEY: Right. Not anything you got from
4 Mr. Burke or Mr. Ferman (phonetic).
5 PATSY RAMSEY: No. I just know that I heard
6 somewhere there was pineapple in her stomach.
7 TOM HANEY: Right. And, again, I am no
8 scientist or anything, but from what we are told,
9 pineapple goes in at X time, and a certain amount of
10 time later, it is gone. Okay. It goes through a
11 particular process, and there is a way to estimate
12 times based on that depending on where it is in the
13 body.
14 PATSY RAMSEY: When she would have eaten it,
15 so you can tell somewhere in there?
16 TOM HANEY: We are --
17 PATSY RAMSEY: Working on that, okay. So
18 when did -- what time did she eat this?
19 TOM HANEY: Well, I am really not at liberty
20 to discuss that part of it with you now. Okay.
21 PATSY RAMSEY: All right. Do where we know
22 this is what she ate?
23 TOM HANEY: We are pretty sure it was
24 pineapple.
25 PATSY RAMSEY: This pineapple?

1 TOM HANEY: Well, I don't think that science
2 has come quite that far that you could say.
3 PATSY RAMSEY: I mean, can they tell whether
4 it was fresh or canned?
5 TOM HANEY: Well --
6 PATSY RAMSEY: Because canned, it is like
7 gooey, you know.
8 TOM HANEY: There is some different
9 consistency, but I don't know.
10 But what concerns me is how that bowl with
11 that pineapple, A, got there, and how the pineapple got
12 in JonBenet's system.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: I don't know truly.
14 TOM HANEY: Take a little breather from the
15 pineapple and let's talk about the glass, do you drink
16 hot tea

13 PATSY RAMSEY: Right. I did not feed
14 JonBenet pineapple, so I don't know how it got in her
15 stomach. I don't know where this bowl of pineapple
16 came from. I can't recall putting that there. I can
17 never recall putting a tea bag like that in a cup, so I
18 don't know. I don't know the answer."

 

[Linda7NJ]

So, the portion of Patsy's '98 interview,you cited somehow leads you to concur that Patsy claimed:

"I didn't buy pineapple." -&/or- "I don't recall buying pineapple."

These two statements are not the same. Similar, perhaps, but the latter statement can also be interpreted to mean:

"I don't remember if I bought pineapple."



Fine. I accept your interpretation as valid. BUT, I would really like to understand how you've determined this excerpt of Patsy's interview supports your argument: ***Explain your BBM, too, please... :waitasec:

I see much distancing. Very much.

And she knew there was pineapple in JonBenets stomach. It was discussed previously with her IMO.

It's not like she was blindsided by this line of questioning.

All IMO


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[otg]

The duodenum is the MOST proximal portion of the small intestine, but Dr. Meyer didn't use the term "duodenum"? He noted the location simply as "proximal". The jejunum is considered proximal as well, right?
:waitasec:

ETA: We don't know when the pineapple exited the stomach, do we? What's the transit time of pineapple through the proximal portion of the SI?

The terms “duodenum” and “proximal portion of the small intestine” are synonymous and interchangeable. I have no idea why Meyer would choose to use the one over the other (easier) word. He wasn’t as old as me at the time, so I don’t think it was simply a brief episode of CRS :lol: causing him to not remember the word duodenum from his Anatomy-101. But I don’t think it’s anything important in implying some inferred meaning or subtle difference.

Proximal (and its opposite: distal) refers to anatomical position -- the same as anterior/posterior, superior/inferior, medial/lateral, etc. When used as a relative position, proximal means “near to” and distal means “away from” (think of approximate and distant to remember). In most cases, the point of reference is the center of the body. If you are comparing two arm joints, as the shoulder and the elbow, the shoulder is the proximal joint and the elbow would be distal. If OTOH, you are comparing the elbow to the wrist, the wrist is distal and the elbow is then proximal.

Since the digestive tract winds its way all through the body, using the center of the body as a reference point would be confusing. So doctors/physicians use the order of digestion as the reference point. Food enters the digestive tract at the mouth, goes through the esophagus, the stomach, the small intestine, the large intestine, and then exits the body. The mouth then is the most proximal point of the digestive tract, and the anus is the most distal.

(Here is where this gets confusing.) As a relative term, the stomach is proximal to the small and large intestines, and it is distal to the esophagus. The small intestine is proximal to the large intestine (colon) and distal to the stomach. When taken as a single organ, the small intestine is divided into three structural sections: duodenum, jejunum, and ileum. Within that single organ, those three sections would be the portions referred to as proximal (duodenum), medial (jejunum), and distal (ileum). The jejunum could be said to be distal to the duodenum, and proximal to the ileum when using it as a relative location term. But if you are referring to the sections within the one organ (small intestine), you have the proximal portion (duodenum), medial portion (jejunum), and the distal portion (ileum).

Interestingly, as a point to your question (but not really an answer), Mama, the origin of the word “jejunum” comes from the Latin word for “fasting”. It was called this because that part of the small intestine was frequently found to be void of food after death because of the higher amount of muscular activity (peristalsis) moving digested food through the medial section of the small intestine compared to the duodenum and ileum. IOW, food kind of “hangs up” within the duodenum before it begins a rapid movement through the jejunum. Then it remains within the ileum for a while before it passes on to the ascending colon.

[As a side-note, because I love etymology, the term jejunum (fasting) was applied to that section of the intestine because it was often found to be empty at death. For that reason, the word jejune is used as an adjective to describe something that is said to be empty, devoid of substance, naïve, or simplistic -- as in making a “jejune argument”.]

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Sandy Stranger served the pineapple.

 

[gramcracker]

thank you for that post, otg, which illustrates once again that all of the unending parsing to the nth degree going on here amounts to ... piffle

 

[Tawny]

The pineapple was in the house. SHe doesn't have to "recall" buying it to have bought it. I don't recall buying Dove shampoo but there it sits in my hall closet, waiting to wash my hair.

 

[bettybaby00]

For all they knew they were calling the kidnapper over.

I like this comment :floorlaugh:

 

[Tawny]

For all they knew they were calling the kidnapper over.

You know. You bring up a good point. JR claimed it was an "inside job"... so why would they feel comfortable inviting all of their friends and what not over?

 

[questfortrue]

thank you for that post, otg, which illustrates once again that all of the unending parsing to the nth degree going on here amounts to ... piffle

Sometimes a post does strike a chord, both yours and otg's.
http://www.perfessorbill.com/covers/piffle.htm

 

[Mama2JML]

The pineapple was in the house. SHe doesn't have to "recall" buying it to have bought it. I don't recall buying Dove shampoo but there it sits in my hall closet, waiting to wash my hair.

Great point. :clap:

 

[The Night Owl]

I like this comment :floorlaugh:

U guys got me laughing so hard i scared the fox pups I am rehabbing!/
SMDOLSH(spit my drink out laughing so hard

 

[The Night Owl]

And I am at a loss for words. One would think since the R's tried to focus the blame elsewhere, they didn't try to to blame the dog. Lmao and kidding of course. I always think of JR saying in an interview (before she was found) saying something along the lines of..i wanted to get the Russian army(or whatever country he said) side note...(small foreign faction?) And shut down the airports/roads??? The van and everything else he said. Says nothing to ANYONE? R u kidding? Yea JR u definitely did everything in your power to find her! What a joke. SMH. One would think since he already lost one daughter, he would do anything and everything not to lose another one. They r . My opinion. Also I think him and Casey Anthony should hook up(I know he is married) they deserve each other. MOO

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

John had nothing to do with the injury, death or post mortem manipulation of the body or writing of the note. (modsnip: in your opinion)

 

[Linda7NJ]

U guys got me laughing so hard i scared the fox pups I am rehabbing!/
SMDOLSH(spit my drink out laughing so hard

Oh my gosh!
I need photos!!!



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[Linda7NJ]

John had nothing to do with the injury, death or post mortem manipulation of the body or writing of the note.

Could you please qualify your statements. It's improper the way you continually post as if they're facts.
You are welcome to your opinions...just state that that's what they are.




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[Blue Bottle 01]

Could you please qualify your statements. It's improper the way you continually post as if they're facts.
You are welcome to your opinions...just state that that's what they are.




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Read my signature.