Patsy Ramsey

[Linda7NJ]

Um... yes the National Enquirer has been discussed. You are aware that the Ramsey's gave a one on on one interview directly to them- aren't you?

That interview ...the bombshell came out that Burke was awake that morning for the 911 call. Iirc


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[TaylurRose02]

I agree! I don't fully understand the intruder theory to begin with. What kind of intruder demands a small ransom (in comparison to the family's notable wealth) for a little girl he or she attempted to kidnapped, kills, and leaves in the basement while the entire family sleeps? Without leaving any fingerprints or evidence of a point of entry? What kind of intruder would feel comfortable enough to write a three page ransom note using materials from the Ramsey's home? None of it adds up, it only adds more questions for me. The above is all in my opinion please keep in mind. Not trying to offend anyone!

 

[Mama2JML]

But they did feel that the parents were guilty of child abuse resulting in her death.

My interpretation differs greatly from yours (BBM) above. Do you have a source to share?

Considering the amount of suspicion against the parents, I'd say that's a pretty important clue considering they have "access to all the information, not just the gossip and speculation that the rest of us have."

The GJ was privy to "gossip and speculation", both inside & outside of the courtroom, and "all of the information", at the time, was considerably lacking compared to the evidence discovered since...

 

[bettybaby00]

That interview ...the bombshell came out that Burke was awake that morning for the 911 call. Iirc


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You would be correct. In fact IIRC that was the headline.

But then, always concerned with appearing innocent then tried to claim they didn't know it until he testified before the GJ :facepalm:

 

[Chewy]

More importantly IMO the grand jury completely and totally dismissed the intruder theory ...in its entirety.


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Can you back up your assertion for this please?

 

[Chewy]

But they did feel that the parents were guilty of child abuse resulting in her death. Considering the amount of suspicion against the parents, I'd say that's a pretty important clue considering they have "access to all the information, not just the gossip and speculation that the rest of us have."

I agree and that's why it's frustrating that within all the debate no one seems to want to discuss what the GJ indictment ACTUALLY showed.

A. there was not sufficient evidence to indict the Ramseys on murder

B. there was not sufficient evidence to indict the Ramseys on manslaughter or accidental death.


C. There was sufficient evidence to indict them on covering up a crime

D. There was sufficient evidence to indict them on putting their child in harms way.


Now this doesn't mean that the GJ thought they were guilty of Cor D but just that there was enough evidence to go to trial.


They did not feel there was enough evidence for either murder or manslaughter, and since the GJ has the most information and online gossip does not, I will take their authority that they don't think that the evidence points to RDI at ALL. period the end.

The C and D charges are all anyone should be concerning themselves with at this point.


So who else was involved. Basicall SOMEONE else was involved. We've got the brigade that wants to suggest a 9 year old did it. Which is possible but not plausible. 9 year old sociopaths are not in the habit of "getting all better" after they killed once. But nonetheless BDI is a different thread.


So who else?

 

[Venom]

Can you back up your assertion for this please?

Why would they indict the R's for child abuse resulting in death and accessory to a crime? Would a GJ indict the parents for those charges thinking that the parents helped an intruder murder their child?
jmo

 

[Venom]

If the GR had privy to the most information, why did they not indict the R's?
They had to have seen something there to indict.

 

[DeDee]

The GJ does not issue indictments. The DAs office holds that responsibility. AH chose not to do so.


Patsy could not be eliminated as the writer of the RN. She wrote that RN for herself, not to protect an intruder.

John received the $118,000 bonus for his earnings in 1995. However, in the RN she let him know she was a fat cat, too. Patsy spent that bonus during 1996. JR told his friend she was going to spend every dollar he made.

The RN must be viewed from the deep mental state of the author. Patsy had been served a death sentence with the incurable Stage Four Ovarian Cancer diagnosis.

Read the note looking for signs of her cancer scare. She dies, she dies, she dies. She is scrutinized. She is monitored. She is scanned.

Perhaps Patsy felt as if she lost her femininity. "The two gentlemen watching over her..."

Feminine parts of Patsy were removed when her uterus and ovaries were excised. Her beauty queen body was scarred from "from stem to stern". Her liver was irreparably damaged from chemo treatments. She had to be quarantined for a while.

We do not know how these treatments affected her brain; ergo, her thought processes may have been altered, from the cancer treatments for an incurable cancer, and the ensuing stress of a beauty queen carrying such knowledge before reaching the age of forty.

Patsy hoped that, legally, she would get away with the murder of JonBenét; although, if she were caught, she wanted everyone to know why she did it. It's in the RN.

The RN is not foolish hogwash. The RN is a complex documentation of a complicated story Patsy has to tell.

There was talk around town at one point, that the Ramsey Legal Team was preparing for Patsy to confess, by way of claiming she was depressed, became manic, and her memory suffered.

In reading Patsy's LE interviews, she is vague or she can't recall or she doesn't remember things. She attempts to keep her interview innocent by using words like "little" in describing objects.

In reality, Patsy could be devious. She turned on many friends after her daughter's death by implicating them. She competed for the title of Miss America. She came from a highly competitive, mean family. Access Graphic employees called her father, Don Paugh, The Hatchet Man for a reason.

John was nicknamed the Ice Man during the investigation. The nicest thing I know that Nedra said about the man her daughter was married to for eighteen years was that she enjoyed spending his money.

John and Patsy's education and life experiences equipped them with the ability to withstand the intense media attention stoically. They hired a PR firm straight away, along with Death Penalty qualified lawyers.

Patsy said winning the title of Miss West Virginia was like "being a Princess for a year". The CEO JR and Princess Patsy managed to maintain their posture so well because they excelled in PR (Public Relations).

OMO based on the knowledge possessed ATT

 

[Frigga]

The GJ does not issue indictments. The DAs office holds that responsibility. AH chose not to do so.


Patsy could not be eliminated as the writer of the RN. She wrote that RN for herself, not to protect an intruder.

John received the $118,000 bonus for his earnings in 1995. However, in the RN she let him know she was a fat cat, too. Patsy spent that bonus during 1996. JR told his friend she was going to spend every dollar he made.

The RN must be viewed from the deep mental state of the author. Patsy had been served a death sentence with the incurable Stage Four Ovarian Cancer diagnosis.

Read the note looking for signs of her cancer scare. She dies, she dies, she dies. She is scrutinized. She is monitored. She is scanned.

Perhaps Patsy felt as if she lost her femininity. "The two gentlemen watching over her..."

Feminine parts of Patsy were removed when her uterus and ovaries were excised. Her beauty queen body was scarred from "from stem to stern". Her liver was irreparably damaged from chemo treatments. She had to be quarantined for a while.

We do not know how these treatments affected her brain; ergo, her thought processes may have been altered, from the cancer treatments for an incurable cancer, and the ensuing stress of a beauty queen carrying such knowledge before reaching the age of forty.

Patsy hoped that, legally, she would get away with the murder of JonBenét; although, if she were caught, she wanted everyone to know why she did it. It's in the RN.

The RN is not foolish hogwash. The RN is a complex documentation of a complicated story Patsy has to tell.

There was talk around town at one point, that the Ramsey Legal Team was preparing for Patsy to confess, by way of claiming she was depressed, became manic, and her memory suffered.

In reading Patsy's LE interviews, she is vague or she can't recall or she doesn't remember things. She attempts to keep her interview innocent by using words like "little" in describing objects.

In reality, Patsy could be devious. She turned on many friends after her daughter's death by implicating them. She competed for the title of Miss America. She came from a highly competitive, mean family. Access Graphic employees called her father, Don Paugh, The Hatchet Man for a reason.

John was nicknamed the Ice Man during the investigation. The nicest thing I know that Nedra said about the man her daughter was married to for eighteen years was that she enjoyed spending his money.

John and Patsy's education and life experiences equipped them with the ability to withstand the intense media attention stoically. They hired a PR firm straight away, along with Death Penalty qualified lawyers.

Patsy said winning the title of Miss West Virginia was like "being a Princess for a year". The CEO JR and Princess Patsy managed to maintain their posture so well because they excelled in PR (Public Relations).

OMO based on the knowledge possessed ATT

You have made a credible case here. Very, very compelling. The thanks button just wasn't enough.

I still get really stuck when listening to Linda Arndt's interview with (I think) Katie Couric when she talks about how when John laid JonBenet down and they both knelt down on opposite sides and locked eyes and at that moment she knew everything... everything that stuck out from that morning made sense and she counted her bullets.

I still really vascilate about John's part in all of this.

I totally believe Patsy was off the deep end at this point in time- she didn't jump off (so to speak) that night, whatever happened, I totally believe she was protecting Burke (especially now after the GJ true bill) and if not him then some how, some way, it was her father or John Andrew because there is no other human being she would protect- John Andrew is even a stretch for me, I don't see Patsy protecting him (he's not her blood) over JonBenet.

Her beloved father has always bothered me. I have always believed he was Patsy's original abuser- who like my own mother adored the man that abused her (her father, my grandfather- who then became my abuser)?

So many questions to ponder, but things have become way more clear since the Grand Jury findings and what exactly they point to though- haven't they?

 

[TaylurRose02]

My interpretation differs greatly from yours (BBM) above. Do you have a source to share?The GJ was privy to "gossip and speculation", both inside & outside of the courtroom, and "all of the information", at the time, was considerably lacking compared to the evidence discovered since...

Well the indictment stated the parents "did render assistance to a person, with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person for the commission of a crime, knowing the person being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death." (quoted from indictment) Reading that the jury came to the conclusion that the parents knowingly put their child in harms way makes them responsible for the "child abuse resulting in death," but as I have stated, that is only my opinion.

And i quoted the "gossip and speculation" things from another poster, not in relation to the case...

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

[John or Patsy] did render assistance to a person [John or Patsy], with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person [John or Patsy] for the commission of a crime, knowing the person [John or Patsy] being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death." (quoted from indictment)

The Grand Jury couldn't figure out who did what between [John or Patsy].
The DA couldn't figure out who did what between [John or Patsy].
Steve Thomsas couldn't figure out who did what between [John or Patsy].

I did: The group of individuals were split-off personas inside Patsy's mind. The intruder Smit was so adamant about was a split-off persona in Patsy's mind.

PDI; Patsy Did It
PDID; Patsy Did It Deliberately
PDID; Patsy's Dissociative Identity Disorder

IMO, of course.

 

[DeDee]

After a very short time, Alex Hunter released the jurors from the typical GJ instructions that would have barred them from all radio, newspaper and television outlets. He soon realized it would be nearly impossible for the grand jurors to totally avoid the hullabaloo.

Therefore, the Grand Jury definitively was exposed, to the extent that each individual juror wanted exposure, to gossip and speculation, whether by viewing the tabloids at the supermarket or watching the six o'clock news in their own home.


Frigga, the truth in your words have stopped me cold. My head bows to salute the divinity in you. :loveyou:

Your courage to post on the heart of this cruel cold case is amazing and is to be commended.


Sociopaths are expert manipulators. It is their power. A manipulating sociopath conned millionaire heiress Patty Hearst into carrying a loaded AK47 into a bank, after she was sufficiently sexually, mentally and physically abused.

There was no physical abuse in the R family. There was plenty of mental and emotional abuse. JR complained about Patsy not cooking and not cleaning and spending too much money. Read what LHP says about her experience with JR.

We do not know what all the two youngest Ramsey children endured at home. We do know something not good caused their enuresis and encopresis.

If DP was guilty of molesting Patsy it could have been why, at 23yo, Patsy married an older man, one who was eight years older, divorced, and with three children.

Also, recall the language of Patsy's family crudely speaking to co-workers about male body parts. They even discussed Burke's aloud. Nedra taught her daughter's their power was in their sex appeal.

Cancer took Patsy's sex appeal without her permission. At least, that is what she thought. Her beauty queen body was ravaged by cancer. So, John had an affair with KB. That was his response to a time of high stress. John was making lots of money, had a lovely family but he chose a self-destructive manner to react to stress when his wife needed him most.

And there JonBenét was with all of her youth, beauty and sex appeal. His company was on top of the world. AG was so close to the billion dollar mark. How does John handle the pressure of success and the stress of maintaining it? He self-destructs.

I believe he touched his little girl and Patsy became aware. She warned him. But he could not stop self-destructing.

Patsy was a winner. She would not lose the cat fight to "that child".

"Don't think that killing will be difficult."

What did JR want to know after his daughter's death? He wanted to know why. He wasn't angry. He quickly forgave the killer.

Recall how ultrasensitive JR was to the sexual abuse accusations or "most hurtful innuendos".


"We feel like there are at least two people on the face of this earth that know who did this. And that is the killer, and someone that that person may have confided in."
~ Patsy Ramsey

As always, OMO

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

In the CNN interview Patsy said (paraphrasing) "We believe there are two people that know what happened, the killer and someone that person may have confided in".

From The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie;

"So she CONFIDED according to what seemed expedient at the time, and was in fact now on the look-out for a girl amongst her set in whom she could CONFIDE enirely, ... Of necessity there had to be just ONE girl; two would be dangerous."

John did not molest JonBenet, ever, Patsy did. IMO, of course.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

In the CNN interview Patsy said (paraphrasing) "We believe there are two people that know what happened, the killer and someone that person may have confided in".

From The Prime Of Miss Jean Brodie;

"So she CONFIDED according to what seemed expedient at the time, and was in fact now on the look-out for a girl amongst her set in whom she could CONFIDE enirely, ... Of necessity there had to be just ONE girl; two would be dangerous."

John did not molest JonBenet, ever, Patsy did. IMO, of course.

Im confused.. Because there is a book somewhere that uses the word confided you connected it to Patsy? Because I use the word confided all the time. I am not sure I see any connection.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Im confused.. Because there is a book somewhere that uses the word confided you connected it to Patsy? Because I use the word confided all the time. I am not sure I see any connection.

Fine then, have a nice life.

 

[DeDee]

No need to be confused. Blue Bottle has been posting pertinent exerts, from Patsy's favorite author and favorite piece of literature, on WS for a long time and about how literature is directly related to the crime; ie., the pineapple happiness was fed to JonBenét the night she died.

One evening, about a year ago, I read all of Blue Bottle's posts to better understand where he was coming from because no one else here currently delves into the psyche of Patsy like Blue Bottle has.

 

[pukasonqo2]

Im confused.. Because there is a book somewhere that uses the word confided you connected it to Patsy? Because I use the word confided all the time. I am not sure I see any connection.

"The Prime of Ms Brodie" has been described by PR, friends, detailed in books as PR's favourite book. There have also been links made to phrases in the book that were on the ransom note, PR's notes to friends, etc. I am sure a search will show you different posts made by posters w more knowledge of the case where "The Prime..." and PR have been discussed


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[DeDee]

RSBM

John did not molest JonBenet, ever, Patsy did. IMO, of course.

I felt the same way for the longest time. That is, until I did an in depth study into the Ransom Note.

In the RN, Patsy sure seems to be plenty mad at John about something and it sure wasn't because his bonus was only $118,000. She seems jealous. Envious. Angry. Devious. Dangerous. Deadly.

From The Daily Camera Ramsey Archives; February 15, 1999:

Investigators interrogating JonBenét Ramsey's mother last summer believe they broke through to "the real Patsy," a woman they concluded was "capable of bringing harm to her daughter," snip.

"Pal, you don't want to go there," Patsy Ramsey snapped at a detective during a June 25 interview, responding to accusations that she lied to police, snip.

For two days of questioning, the slain 6-year-old's mother was "polite and charming." On the third day, Tom Haney, snip, "went all out," Schiller wrote.

"The tougher the questions became, the tougher Patsy became," Schiller wrote. "Once, she raised her hand across the table, in front of Haney's face and said, You're going down the wrong road."

Maybe I should go read the third day of Patsy's interview with TH again knowing he is his toughest ever with her.

 

[DeDee]

[John or Patsy] did render assistance to a person [John or Patsy], with intent to hinder, delay and prevent the discovery, detention, apprehension, prosecution, conviction and punishment of such person [John or Patsy] for the commission of a crime, knowing the person [John or Patsy] being assisted has committed and was suspected of the crime of murder in the first degree and child abuse resulting in death." (quoted from indictment)

The Grand Jury couldn't figure out who did what between [John or Patsy].
The DA couldn't figure out who did what between [John or Patsy].
Steve Thomsas couldn't figure out who did what between [John or Patsy].

I did: The group of individuals were split-off personas inside Patsy's mind. The intruder Smit was so adamant about was a split-off persona in Patsy's mind.

PDI; Patsy Did It
PDID; Patsy Did It Deliberately
PDID; Patsy's Dissociative Identity Disorder

IMO, of course.

Good, simple explanation of the GJs work. :clap:

The DAs Ainsworth and Demuth wanted an intruder with Smit. Their feedback was not helpful to the prosecution. Kane was a solid Arrest Ramsey kind of guy. Demuth went to work for the Ramsey attorneys after losing to Mary in the race for DA.

Steve Thomas may have been my favorite detective; however, his was never a favorite theory. There was no accident.

Steve Thomas looked Patsy straight into the eyes on Nat'l tv and told Patsy that he felt she was "good for this". Boom! There it is! I stood up and cheered! He knew she was capable of evil actions and she knew that Steve was aware of that flaw in her.

What ST also did well in his book was reveal Boulder's political shenanigans that run far and wide with deep connections. 6 Degrees of Separation

Lou Smit's last case was a huge one. He managed to snag the guy who murdered Heather Dawn Church in Colorado in 1991. The killer, after his arrest, confessed to killing over forty people. For that confession, he was sentenced to life.

The Heather Dawn Church Files may be worth a brief study. ST said Smit often spoke of the Heather Dawn Church case and how it was similar to JBs circumstances.