Patsy Ramsey

[Chewy]

OGL. You are dealing with old outdated material if you believe in the pubic hair on the white blanket. It has been sourced as an ancillary hair belonging to the one and only Patsy Ramsey!

I appreciate the update but could you please link a source to that.

Patsy unloaded the dishwasher? I want proof of that.

You want proof that someone who lives in a house could possibly have touched one of the dishes in the house. Really? It's that far of a stretch to you?

There was a moment in John's interview when he was shown the picture similar to the one of my avatar where he describes what he sees.

He describes seeing Patsy's "good silver" spoon in the bowl.

That was no ordinary spoon in the bowlful of happiness. It was the family's best "silver" spoon.

The above is the kind of absolute nonsense in theory that just blows any RDI type theory out the window based on theories I've seen. What in the HECK are you talking about????

:scared:

Sorry that is just nuts. The man just found his daughter dead body. carried it up and now what? My guess is she saw panic and fear, A " what do I do" in his eyes.

But you can not read the eyes of someone you met 3 hours before. It is just not possible. I can read dh's eyes because I have been with him 24 years.
But under these circumstances, In that time, With all that is going on.. It is just not possible. IT is bunk.

And the counting her bullets thing borders on ridiculous.

Agreed. And beyond that, a normal cop wouldn't be doing the whole drama queen "I saw EVIL!!!!!!" crap. A real cop wouldn't even be thinking like that at all because they are trained to be calm and focus on the protocols and the room. She was and still is a hystrionic failure as a police officer.

A real cop would be thinking, we need to get back up and contain the scene. She really thought John was going to murder everyone in the room and she need 18 bullets to take him out?

She's a freaking nut.

 

[DeDee]

My theory about how it could have been Patsy Ramsey.

RSBM for space and topic

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotion...ncopresis.html

Your honesty about something so personal and how it affects this PDI theory is interesting.

Gleaned from the link....

Up to 20% of kids with encopresis experience feelings of low self-esteem that require the intervention of a psychologist or counselor.

More common in boys

Toilet-stopping BMs

The child holds the BM, drying and hardening the poop.

If it is painful, the child will refuse to poop out.

The child is unaware bc of blocked nerves being pressed

Children are unfazed. Some try to hide it.

The child grows accustomed to the odor.

Pg 4 from the link on encopresis. No mention of pineapple here:

"And don't forget to have your child drink plenty of fluids each day, especially water. Diluted 100% fruit juice (like pear, peach, or prune) is an option if your child is not drinking enough water. Also limiting your child's daily dairy intake (including milk, cheese, and yogurt) may help".

There was milk poured over the chunks of pineapple in the bowl.

 

[DeDee]

My theory about how it could have been Patsy Ramsey.
RSBM for topic

So some clues that I'm not sure I have correctly, feel free to correct them, that I think indicate this may be what happened.

A. There were several incidents where Patsy told the housekeepers to clean up Burke's feces. The poop smeared on the chocolates etc. I'm wondering if it was really Jonbenet's feces (how would they know the difference) and Patsy blamed it on Jonbenet to save face. It's easier to blame it on a boy.

(Question: Were the feces found tested and found to be Burke's or Jonbenets)

B. There were no sized fitting underwear in Jonbenet's drawer. This was a common problem with my own son. When they soil the underwear you really just throw it out. There's no saving it the way the seepage comes out. It's filthy and sewagey smelling. My son never had size fitting underwear in the drawer. We'd go through a weeks worth of underwear in two days and have to throw it out. And because you are so desperate about underwear all the time, you hang onto any pairs you have just in case you have an emergency. This would explain why she had other non fitting sizes in there as well.

C. There were several cases of Jonbenet coming home with another kids underwear on and hers in a bag. This was a common occurance in my case as well.

D. The discrepancy between whether Jonbenet was molested. snip

E. Pineapple is a natural diuretic. One that a kid would eat over prunes or drinking prune juice. I used to feed my son pineapple to try to help regulate his digestive system. Why did Patsy lie about the pineapple? She obviously ate it? Pineapple could have caused another accident and that's why Patsy lied about it. In other words, in her mind, the pineapple was related to the accident which is why she killed her and this is why she refuses to acknowledge it.

F. The heart drawn on Jonbenet's hand.

A. Encopresis is more common in boys. I don't know about any of BRs underwear being taken into evidence although a man's pair was taken.

ALL of JonBenét's underwear except the ones she was wearing had stains from BMs.

B. All 15 panties taken from the home into evidence were sizes 4 - 6. Her mother intentionally misleads, or prevaricates, during her interview by stating JB was currently wearing size 8 -10. There were no size 8s.

C. Didn't FW state he took her home once with dirty panties in a bag?

D. From the link provided, "Dr. Beuf saw JonBenét 27 times between March, 1993 and November, 1996."

This is an astounding amount of dr visits for a well nourished, normally developed 6yof.

E. snip "Why did Patsy lie about the pineapple? She obviously ate it? Pineapple could have caused another accident and that's why Patsy lied about it. In other words, in her mind, the pineapple was related to the accident which is why she killed her"

I do believe you have answered your own question. However, it is OMO that there was no accident.

Did the perfectionist Patsy not appreciate her children dumping poop everywhere? The odor of feces and urine is repelling to the senses and makes our eyes burn and we gag as a result. It is no surprise she had those urine soaked sheets in the washer when the housekeeper arrived in the mornings.

F. I have studied the red drawing on her hand. Your suggestion that it served as a reminder to go to the bathroom makes sense to me. I am not sure it was a heart.

Your point is well-taken about Patsy using nail polish remover to take off the marker. Could the nail polish remover have caused the tiny white pimples on the palm side near the red heart?

 

[DeDee]

My theory about how it could have been Patsy Ramsey.
RSBM
There are a few things I'd like to know

A. Why the doctor never noticed the issue (Maybe Patsy didn't tell him what was really happening because she was ashamed)

B. Did anyone notice this incident? (Many of my friends had no idea my son was doing this. I would get in the habit of taking extra underwear with me and wrapping the soiled ones in a plastic bag and then just throwing them out when we left the house)

C. Why no one smelled it. It's a strong smell. (Maybe she didn't have it as severely as my son)

D. What kind of clean up Patsy would have had to do that morning.

F. Why wasn't there any detection of feces on Jonbenet's body. I would find it hard to believe that Patsy was able to clean it all off of her.

A. "Dr. Beuf saw JonBenét 27 times between March, 1993 and November, 1996." He obviously did not document genital examinations. There were 5 routine or full physicals during that time frame. Dr. Beuff and his wife Penny were friends and fellow church members. Interestingly enough, he was the first to donate to Mary Kennan's political run for DA. She beat Tripp Demuth who took a job employed by the Ramsey's lawyers.


B. Not sure which incident you are referencing but as far as I'm aware, only the housekeeper and the one time incident with FW are documented for JB having seen/witnessed a poop issue.

C. otg provided an excellent synopsis on this very subject earlier in the year. Maybe otg will provide the link to that scientific report created on becoming accustomed or desensitized to malodorous homes?

D. None. There was no clean up by Patsy.

She had already disposed of everything she did not need. She left poop in JBs toilet. Poop on the candy. Poop in pjs on JBs floor. Poop smeared on the wall outside of the basement bathroom. There was poop inside a pair of JBs black pants found on her bathroom floor.

 

[DeDee]

Again it blows my mind that anyone can watch that video and not see a mentally ill woman

Please stop passing judgments. Seriously.

I gave my impression of her words. I never inserted my personal impression of LA.

Sorry that is just nuts. The man just found his daughter dead body. carried it up and now what? My guess is she saw panic and fear, A " what do I do" in his eyes.

But you can not read the eyes of someone you met 3 hours before. It is just not possible. I can read dh's eyes because I have been with him 24 years.
But under these circumstances, In that time, With all that is going on.. It is just not possible. IT is bunk.

And the counting her bullets thing borders on ridiculous.

ITA. Her assumptions do seem rather suspect. I never said it wasn't bunk. She was trying to save her rep. Before giving the interview, she should have seen a life coach first, like Patsy did.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

A. "Dr. Beuf saw JonBenét 27 times between March, 1993 and November, 1996." He obviously did not document genital examinations. There were 5 routine or full physicals during that time frame. Dr. Beuff and his wife Penny were friends and fellow church members. Interestingly enough, he was the first to donate to Mary Kennan's political run for DA. She beat Tripp Demuth who took a job employed by the Ramsey's lawyers.


B. Not sure which incident you are referencing but as far as I'm aware, only the housekeeper and the one time incident with FW are documented for JB having seen/witnessed a poop issue.

C. otg provided an excellent synopsis on this very subject earlier in the year. Maybe otg will provide the link to that scientific report created on becoming accustomed or desensitized to malodorous homes?

D. None. There was no clean up by Patsy.

She had already disposed of everything she did not need. She left poop in JBs toilet. Poop on the candy. Poop in pjs on JBs floor. Poop smeared on the wall outside of the basement bathroom. There was poop inside a pair of JBs black pants found on her bathroom floor.

Where did the fecal matter reports come from??I would love to see a real report about the fecal matter because so far I have only seen references from a book and people assuming.

 

[pukasonqo2]

ANDDDD??? I read Patricia Cornwell books. Some I have read over and over.. All with grisly murders.. Does that mean I am a murderer?



That she used the word confided properly in a sentence can not be tied back to a book. It is just proper use of a word.



There is so much really far reaching that it has nothing to do with the case. IT is one thing to take evidence and try and tie it to someone another altogether to take a book that millions of people may have read and use one word to connect it.



Ug.

no , i could tell you like cornwell's books. you asked about the book i gave you the answer. you wanted to know what and why and you got it from me.

your first paragraph... seriously? i could respond with i am latina, does it make me a gang banger?

is not the fact that she read "the prime...." as i said in my post, she reference the book quite a bit, not just in turn of phrase but behaviours, as i suggested, check the forum and you will find the tie-ins.

and not many people have read " the prime..." , is a book wrote by muriel spark in 1961, a film was made in 1969 but i don't think you would consider it a popular book, actually i found a copy in a second hand bookshop recently so off i go to read it. have you read it?

far reaching goes both ways, in all honesty i can't stand personal attacks because opinions differ.

bottom line: a six year old child died, that is what i care about. i want to know WHY and make sure the right person is put away, don't give a toss if that person is one of the Rs or joe (joanna) citizen.

do i need to say the usual MOO?


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Please stop passing judgments. Seriously.

I gave my impression of her words. I never inserted my personal impression of LA.




ITA. Her assumptions do seem rather suspect. I never said it wasn't bunk. She was trying to save her rep. Before giving the interview, she should have seen a life coach first, like Patsy did.

Wait, isn't everyone here passing judgment???

LA looks like a nut in that video. Like some kind of wanna be cop show persona.

I think instead of trying to save her rep she should have been working the scene. Instinct is her putting into action a way to protect the scene collect witnesses, cordon off the area.. Lock it down.

What she talks about is going all psychic dramatic.
It is just beyond reason how many things were wrong with the people on this case.

 

[DeDee]

I appreciate the update but could you please link a source to that.

You want proof that someone who lives in a house could possibly have touched one of the dishes in the house. Really? It's that far of a stretch to you?

The above is the kind of absolute nonsense in theory that just blows any RDI type theory out the window based on theories I've seen. What in the HECK are you talking about????

:scared:

RSBM

I appreciate the update but could you please link a source to that.

No. You will learn more if you locate the data yourself.

You want proof that someone who lives in a house could possibly have touched one of the dishes in the house. Really? It's that far of a stretch to you?

Misrepresenting my posts must stop. I never stated that "someone who lives in a house could possibly have touched one of the dishes in the house".

Rather, when I could have inserted an icon, I sardonically wrote that I wanted proof that Patsy Ramsey ever unloaded a dishwasher. Patsy had a maid almost since the beginning of her marriage to John.

I wrote:

There was a moment in John's interview when he was shown the picture similar to the one of my avatar where he describes what he sees.

He describes seeing Patsy's "good silver" spoon in the bowl.

That was no ordinary spoon in the bowlful of happiness. It was the family's best "silver" spoon.

The above is the kind of absolute nonsense in theory that just blows any RDI type theory out the window based on theories I've seen. What in the HECK are you talking about????

:scared:

There is no need to be fearful, Chewy.

In as polite a fashion as possible, the comment demonstrates how much more you need to learn about this murder and the important players.

For instance, do you know how many attempts it took Patsy to win the Miss West Virginia pageant or what talent Patsy performed in her successful attempt to become Miss West Virginia?

The Charleston Gazette, June 22, 1977

BEAUTIFUL CASE OF DETERMINATION

Meet Miss West Virginia, Survivor Of Pageant Fever

This year's Miss West Virginia has a chronic case of what she diagnoses as "Pageant Fever." The virus has been in her blood ever since her sophomore year in high school when she was named first runner-up in the Miss Teen-Age West Virginia contest.

 

[pukasonqo2]

Lindy Chamberlain, Julie Rhea Harper, come to mine. Made up stories,, ridiculous theories. Lindy supposedly sacrificed her child in the woods.

even now here in oz some people think dingoes are cute desert dogs. but that is another problem. BTW, they were in the middle of the outback, there are no woods in that area is just desert, rough and harsh.

on the other hand, people do make up stories, linda smith, darlie routier, that old lady who murdered 5 of her kids which was attributed to SIDS, nurses that alter meds...

and yes, others are wrongly accused, some even wrongly executed which makes me happy we don't have the DP here in oz.

in an ideal world, things would be clear and simple, a look at a CS will reveal clues that would point out to the perpetrator (s) with no doubts allowed, people would confess and rainbows will shine over long lost tombstones. sadly life is what it is, not a film, TV series or a carefully written book where all the pieces of the puzzle fall in place, evil gets its just deserts and the good guys ride into the sunset

homini lupus




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[DeDee]

Wait, isn't everyone here passing judgment???

RSBM

It is one thing to pass judgment on evidence of key witnesses and quite another to vilify members of this forum.

Originally Posted by Chewy View Post
Again it blows my mind that anyone can watch that video and not see a mentally ill woman

Chewy was kindly requested to stop vilifying posters on this board.

 

[TaylurRose02]

How would someone "remove" their fingerprints from a piece of paper? I'd love to know?

A bowl that she put into the cupboard after she took out of the dishwasher? Her finger prints could have gotten on that bowl any number of ways. She also may have touched it and not realized it or remembered.

Also just checking, but wasn't there a PUBIC HAIR found on the blanket on Jonbenet that didn't match anyone in the Ramsey family? That is evidence. Clothing fibers from clothes that the mother wore found in a house she lived in is not suprising at all.

I never said someone "removed" their fingerprints? Not sure where you got that from. My point was the parents claimed to have held the ransom note, but their fingerprints weren't on it according to Thomas. Which would mean A.) Their story is once again not matching up or B.) Something was stopping their fingerprints from surfacing when handling the note.

That's true, but what's important to remember is that the pineapple partially digested in JB's stomach was the same fresh pineapple out of the bowl that had PR's fingerprints on it. That'd be why people consider it important.

And again fibers that matched the exact sweater Patsy wore the night of her daughters murder were found on both the paint tray and on the duct tape covering her mouth. IMO matching fibers from something a murder suspect was wearing that appear on the victim and where the killer got the weapon is important. There's just as many "what if's" about the fibers as their is about the DNA.

 

[TaylurRose02]

What fingerprints were found on the note? It does not have to mean that her fingerprints were not on it, but she could have touched it in a way that her fingerprint did not transfer well.

The bowl she did not have to touch that day, It could have been before and so she could have said, I did not put that bowl there, when in fact she had handled it in the past and so it held her prints.

I'm not sure, I just read the interview of Thomas where he said neither Patsy or John's fingerprints were found on the note. I think it's on acandyrose if you want to check it out. I could understand that, but in my mind if the parents had found out their child was kidnapped, I'd be gripping the note like no other. I just can't see neither of their fingerprints managing to transfer, but that's just my opinion.

That's true as well and to be honest it wouldn't stick out so much for me if the contents of the bowl weren't in JB. I can't picture an intruder giving her fresh pineapple or her getting it alone without anyone waking up. The fact that her prints were on it and the pineapple was in her stomach is what weirds me out a bit.

 

[Chewy]

Calling people "psychotic" because they read a certain type of author is certainly being judgmental IMO

I'm not being judgmental about the Linda Ardnt video. It really does blow my mind that people watch that interview and see her as a rational police officer. She can barely get through the interview. She's got bugged out eyes and is wandering off in her thoughts and starts talking like a nut.

She doesn't at ALL come across like any other police officer I've ever seen interviewed about a crime. But more than that she looks totally crazy to me when I watch the interview. She's so over the top it really blows my mind that people just watch the same video and see HER as rational and then watch the Patsy video and see her as "over the top."

That's not a "judgment" it's my sincere feelings on the matter.


ETA Please note that I'm not just talking about theorists on THIS SITE. I've visited many other sites. This site is generally more rational and intelligent than others I've gone to. So I'm not necessarily talking about people here.

 

[pukasonqo2]

Calling people "psychotic" because they read a certain type of author is certainly being judgmental IMO

I'm not being judgmental about the Linda Ardnt video. It really does blow my mind that people watch that interview and see her as a rational police officer. She can barely get through the interview. She's got bugged out eyes and is wandering off in her thoughts and starts talking like a nut.

She doesn't at ALL come across like any other police officer I've ever seen interviewed about a crime. But more than that she looks totally crazy to me when I watch the interview. She's so over the top it really blows my mind that people just watch the same video and see HER as rational and then watch the Patsy video and see her as "over the top."

That's not a "judgment" it's my sincere feelings on the matter.


ETA Please note that I'm not just talking about theorists on THIS SITE. I've visited many other sites. This site is generally more rational and intelligent than others I've gone to. So I'm not necessarily talking about people here.

if you are referring to me, i did not call PR psychotic. just pointed out the name of the book and the links made between that book, PRs style of writing and suggested that a search for the link between "the prime..." and PR would help


lupus est homini , non , non quom qualis sit novit

 

[Frigga]

Linda Arndt...

The primary reason for Arndt's suspicion is what she calls the unusual behavior of both John and Patsy Ramsey on the morning of the investigation. Despite a promise by the alleged kidnappers to call that morning at a designated time with further instructions on how to go about collecting their daughter, neither of the Ramsey's commented when the call never arrived.

Also, despite the ransom letter's explicit warning that law enforcement was not to be called and that no one was to be made aware of JonBenet's kidnapping or the child would be "beheaded", Arndt was shocked to find the house crowded with friends and neighbors, all of which had been notified of the situation and invited to the home by the Ramseys themselves.

Perhaps Arndt's most shocking revelation in regard to the events of that morning is what Arndt's describes to have occurred after sending John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White to check the house in search of anything out of place.

According to Arndt, it was then that John Ramsey went to the wine cellar and claimed to have found the body. After carrying JonBenet's lifeless body up the steps and lying the child on the floor under the Christmas tree, Arndt claims that Patsy Ramsey looked on unphased out the window as chaos surrounding the discovery of the child's body ensued.

From:

http://www.examiner.com/article/get...-15th-anniversary-of-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm not sure, I just read the interview of Thomas where he said neither Patsy or John's fingerprints were found on the note. I think it's on acandyrose if you want to check it out. I could understand that, but in my mind if the parents had found out their child was kidnapped, I'd be gripping the note like no other. I just can't see neither of their fingerprints managing to transfer, but that's just my opinion.

That's true as well and to be honest it wouldn't stick out so much for me if the contents of the bowl weren't in JB. I can't picture an intruder giving her fresh pineapple or her getting it alone without anyone waking up. The fact that her prints were on it and the pineapple was in her stomach is what weirds me out a bit.

It could have been that they were indeed gripping the note and so did not transfer good prints. IT could be that the way they handled it did not leave USABLE prints.
I don't know why people think that there is no possibility she got it herself. My kids go in the fridge and get things all the time without me knowing.

 

[Chewy]

Linda Arndt...

The primary reason for Arndt's suspicion is what she calls the unusual behavior of both John and Patsy Ramsey on the morning of the investigation. Despite a promise by the alleged kidnappers to call that morning at a designated time with further instructions on how to go about collecting their daughter, neither of the Ramsey's commented when the call never arrived.

Also, despite the ransom letter's explicit warning that law enforcement was not to be called and that no one was to be made aware of JonBenet's kidnapping or the child would be "beheaded", Arndt was shocked to find the house crowded with friends and neighbors, all of which had been notified of the situation and invited to the home by the Ramseys themselves.

Perhaps Arndt's most shocking revelation in regard to the events of that morning is what Arndt's describes to have occurred after sending John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White to check the house in search of anything out of place.

According to Arndt, it was then that John Ramsey went to the wine cellar and claimed to have found the body. After carrying JonBenet's lifeless body up the steps and lying the child on the floor under the Christmas tree, Arndt claims that Patsy Ramsey looked on unphased out the window as chaos surrounding the discovery of the child's body ensued.

From:

http://www.examiner.com/article/get...-15th-anniversary-of-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case

These are all interesting points but they don't reflect what she says in the video. She's a freaking psycho in that video.

And, she didn't act like a cop. Any cop that is a professional would have put everyone in the other room and called for back up and immediately contained the scene even if they had screwed up by not containing the scene from the start.

You'd realize you contaminated the scene and get everyone OUT immediately.



And consider that she presents it as "John went straight to the basement."

Well HELLO!!! If the Ramseys were sleeping on the top floor and Burke on the second and everyone was gatherered on the first, it makes sense to go start at the floor where no one had been.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Linda Arndt...

The primary reason for Arndt's suspicion is what she calls the unusual behavior of both John and Patsy Ramsey on the morning of the investigation. Despite a promise by the alleged kidnappers to call that morning at a designated time with further instructions on how to go about collecting their daughter, neither of the Ramsey's commented when the call never arrived.

Also, despite the ransom letter's explicit warning that law enforcement was not to be called and that no one was to be made aware of JonBenet's kidnapping or the child would be "beheaded", Arndt was shocked to find the house crowded with friends and neighbors, all of which had been notified of the situation and invited to the home by the Ramseys themselves.

Perhaps Arndt's most shocking revelation in regard to the events of that morning is what Arndt's describes to have occurred after sending John Ramsey and his friend Fleet White to check the house in search of anything out of place.

According to Arndt, it was then that John Ramsey went to the wine cellar and claimed to have found the body. After carrying JonBenet's lifeless body up the steps and lying the child on the floor under the Christmas tree, Arndt claims that Patsy Ramsey looked on unphased out the window as chaos surrounding the discovery of the child's body ensued.

From:

http://www.examiner.com/article/get...-15th-anniversary-of-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case

The problems are many here. But she can not weasel out of her part in this debacle. She should not have let people roam the house. She should not have sent JR and FW to search the house.

She made a mess of it and wants to look better, like she had instincts that cover the whole thing but it doesn't. She is not the Long island medium. She was a cop over her head and she knew it. She knew nothing by looking at JR. Nothing. She just comes off crazy if you ask me.

 

[Chewy]

That's how I took it as well. She totally screwed up and then tried to play it that she had been duped by the "evil powerful Ramseys" as a way of justifying her mistake.

She was fired from the force for being a bad cop and then tried to sue them for slander or something. And the courts threw out her case.

She also reached out to Patsy before she died and then tried to spin the whole thing into a book deal.

She's crazy.