Patsy Ramsey

[gramcracker]

her vaginal opening measured twice what is considered the medically established norm for a girl her age who has not been penetrated with a finger or an object

 

[CherCher]

Patsy Ramsey, 04.30.97, BPD Interview:

"TT: Okay. Okay. What I would like to do is show you a picture of a blanket, it’s got a scale and it’s a white blanket with what you describe as a loose weave and all that. It’s got a scale around the outside is all. Is this, does that kind of look like the blanket, there you go Pat, that was on her bed that night? And again, it’s uh, it’s folded up. Hard, kind of hard to see.

PR: Yeah. Yeah, it was probably, yeah.

TT: Does that look like the kind of blanket that was on her bed.

PR: Um hum."​

Patsy answers affirmatively, but when Trujillo asks the next question she's really not so sure.

"TT: Or was that the blanket on her bed?

PR: I, it may have been, yeah. I can’t, I mean it sort of looks a little pinkish. It was . . .

TT: And, and that might be . . .

PR: It was white.

TT: . . .that might be the coloring of the picture.

PR: Yeah.

TT: Uh, because the colors are not very good.

PR: Right.

TT: It’s actually an all white blanket.

PR: Is it? Um hum.

TT: The colors are kind of deceiving on that.

PR: Yeah. It, it could have been."​

I see your point except if you underline the word WAS instead of OR it changes the complexion of the question. Either way, it doesn't mean much.

 

[CherCher]

It pertains to Patsy. It goes in her thread. :seeya:

I get that much. I thought perhaps it had to do with a topic that had already been brought up.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

her vaginal opening measured twice what is considered the medically established norm for a girl her age who has not been penetrated with a finger or an object

There is no way to know exactly what that would be. They are all different.

And again. she was just assaulted. So that explains that.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Like I said above, I refuse to spar with you. if I take the time to quote the info then you may just say people are just different down there. Waste of my. Sorry!

I love your handle and avatar though!

It is discussing. Not sparing. We all have different opinions and post as such.

Back at ya on the Avatar!

 

[Theonly1]

There is no way to know exactly what that would be. They are all different.

And again. she was just assaulted. So that explains that.

Here is how I would prefer you respond to me. I do not agree with you, but instead of saying "no" or "you are wrong" I am gonna show you how:

While there is, of course, differences in human anatomy, the coroner and those specialists (were there 5) all examined her vaginal region and all her bits and came firmly, unanimously, to the conclusion that her vagina was TWICE the norm. Norm is the wide range already. They also concluded her hymen was PREVIOUSLY eroded. That means before the night in question. The coroner could plainly see the recent injuries vs. the older ones. Have you by chance taken anatomy? The body looks different depending on fresh and old injuries. Hey, I am just telling you what the doctors and child specialists found. If you choose to believe that all was normal and/or happened that night nothing I say will change your mind. So, that is what I mean by sparing. Going back and forth where nothing is going to be gained or enlightened. If I am incorrect about something I do welcome the correction - like on the shirt vs. jumper earlier. But please, if you post to me, please do not post "NO!" And the like. Not that you did it here but that is a peeve for me and not an open discussion.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She was only examined by one medical examiner. Every other opinion you see is just off his notes so it is not like they are going to find anything new.

 

[Theonly1]

She was only examined by one medical examiner. Every other opinion you see is just off his notes so it is not like they are going to find anything new.

They did not find anything "new" they just agreed with him. Just like you agree with TDNA. Just because one main examiner saw it, and he was not alone during the autopsy, btw, does not mean everyone will fall in lock-step after that opinion. They obviously agreed because they saw what he saw.

Take the head wound. Once the coroner saw the huge crack and displaced piece of skull and took pictures he could show that to other brain specialists and they could agree or disagree with or about his varied evaluations.

 

[Mama2JML]

Here is how I would prefer you respond to me. I do not agree with you, but instead of saying "no" or "you are wrong" I am gonna show you how:

While there is, of course, differences in human anatomy, the coroner and those specialists (were there 5) all examined her vaginal region and all her bits and came firmly, unanimously, to the conclusion that her vagina was TWICE the norm. Norm is the wide range already. They also concluded her hymen was PREVIOUSLY eroded. That means before the night in question. The coroner could plainly see the recent injuries vs. the older ones. Have you by chance taken anatomy? The body looks different depending on fresh and old injuries. Hey, I am just telling you what the doctors and child specialists found. If you choose to believe that all was normal and/or happened that night nothing I say will change your mind. So, that is what I mean by sparing. Going back and forth where nothing is going to be gained or enlightened. If I am incorrect about something I do welcome the correction - like on the shirt vs. jumper earlier. But please, if you post to me, please do not post "NO!" And the like. Not that you did it here but that is a peeve for me and not an open discussion.

Do you have a source to share?

 

[Linda7NJ]

She was only examined by one medical examiner. Every other opinion you see is just off his notes so it is not like they are going to find anything new.

I believe you're mistaken. The panel of experts also examined slides ...tissue samples.
I'll look for the link. Brb


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[Theonly1]

Looking at the released coroner's report, which focuses more on cause of death, mentions the chronic inflammation. It is on the last page. The eroded hymen is also noted. However, you are right in the coroner did not opine on chronic abuse in the autopsy report. Dr. Cyril Wecht and 4 others viewed all the pictures, samples, reports, etc., and came to that conclusion. Do you need a link to dr. wecht's report?

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I believe you're mistaken. The panel of experts also examined slides ...tissue samples.
I'll look for the link. Brb


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But the body was only examined by one ME. Slides, reports were seen by a lot of people.. But the body itself was examined by the ME. That is it.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Looking at the released coroner's report, which focuses more on cause of death, mentions the chronic inflammation. It is on the last page. The eroded hymen is also noted. However, you are right in the coroner did not opine on chronic abuse in the autopsy report. Dr. Cyril Wecht and 4 others viewed all the pictures, samples, reports, etc., and came to that conclusion. Do you need a link to dr. wecht's report?

Nope. Because I believe that there is no way to know that there was Chronic abuse from the injuries and the FBI did not find any evidence of abuse.

 

[Linda7NJ]

http://books.google.com/books?id=pC...a=X&ei=3wORU9L0H4eayATu8oGYBA&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAw



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[Linda7NJ]

Nope. Because I believe that there is no way to know that there was Chronic abuse from the injuries and the FBI did not find any evidence of abuse.

Please provide a link that the FBI found no prior sexual abuse.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Please provide a link that the FBI found no prior sexual abuse.


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IT has been provided. Either in this thread or the DNA thread I think.

 

[Linda7NJ]

But the body was only examined by one ME. Slides, reports were seen by a lot of people.. But the body itself was examined by the ME. That is it.

Scarlett I'm not sure you're aware but pictures are taken, very high resolution ...very close up.
The body isn't required to make the determination. Scar tissue, injuries at different stages of healing, the wearing away of the hymen.

The experts are pretty clear.

I do happen to know a lot about this particular aspect. You are also correct. A good defense attorney would make the very same argument you're making. The overwhelming odds are this child was abused sexually before the night she died. Is it 100% certainty? No, but it's like 98% and that's good enough for me when considered with all of the circumstances and evidence...I am beyond a reasonable doubt..she was abused before. IMO



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[ScarlettScarpetta]

Scarlett I'm not sure you're aware but pictures are taken, very high resolution ...very close up.
The body isn't required to make the determination. Scar tissue, injuries at different stages of healing, the wearing away of the hymen.

The experts are pretty clear.

I do happen to know a lot about this particular aspect. You are also correct. A good defense attorney would make the very same argument you're making. The overwhelming odds are this child was abused sexually before the night she died. Is it 100% certainty? No, but it's like 98% and that's good enough for me when considered with all of the circumstances and evidence...I am beyond a reasonable doubt..she was abused before. IMO





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It is not the same as examining the body first hand. It is already someone elses conclusions they are working with. THe FBI disagreed.

 

[Tawny]

Provide links to all of this that the FBI has apparently said, please.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Provide links to all of this that the FBI has apparently said, please.

It is already here in one of the threads we were talking about it the other day.