Patsy Ramsey

  • #2,061
Given what we have learned in retrospect, we know that most of what the Ramsey's have said (about what happened on December 25th and 26th) has been lies. We do not know who was at the White's party, what happened at the party. Did they really deliver gifts after the party or did Doug Stine came home with them? Why would they plan a complicated trip to Michigan, when the other kids could have as easily flown to Boulder. What hinky things happened with the Stines? We only know what they have said, and not much of it really makes sense.

Police have photos of the White's party and I believe they do know who was there. Supposedly, it was JR's idea to fly to Charlevoix for the post-Christmas celebration with his older kids. Patsy was said to not really want to go, because they had a Disney Cruise right after and Patsy was stressed trying to get ready for both trips.
As to the rest of it- right- we don't know whether they really made all those stops, or whether DS came home with them (it would explain a lot if he did- especially the rabid defense of the Rs, even to illegally impersonating the police in emails. And why she wasn't prosecuted for that is something I'd have liked to ask Beckner myself.
 
  • #2,062
Thanks DeeDee, Right WE do not have access to those photos, ( why do thy not want us to know who was there?) I have often wondered if something happened among the kids who were there, and then the Stine thing which really can only be speculated about. As hectic as we all know the Holidays are, that trip to Charlevoix for a day seemed bizarre. Any thoughts about that. Do you think it was a diversion? Which then speaks to premeditation to me, and I don't think it was.
 
  • #2,063
Thanks DeeDee, Right WE do not have access to those photos, ( why do thy not want us to know who was there?) I have often wondered if something happened among the kids who were there, and then the Stine thing which really can only be speculated about. As hectic as we all know the Holidays are, that trip to Charlevoix for a day seemed bizarre. Any thoughts about that. Do you think it was a diversion? Which then speaks to premeditation to me, and I don't think it was.

I think the reason we haven't seen the photos is that they came from the Whites. Fleet White has gone to great lengths to keep the integrity of his evidence and testimony by not discussing it or allowing it to be leaked to the public. He's the one guy in all this that has not pandered to the media, so I doubt we'll see those photos until the actual trial.
 
  • #2,064
A trial that most likely will never come to fruition.
 
  • #2,065
You may want, scroll to the * Burke * to skip this. I'll be talking about my reading this thread first.

I just finished reading all (actually most) of the 83 pages. I really want to learn and discover what other people have to say about this case. Sometimes I wanted to kill my computer. I thought I could tolerate anything; but honestly, it sometimes felt like the Ramsey's legal defense team were here creating subterfuge on this thread. That's when I finally learned how important the ignore feature is. It brings back sanity. To use it means I could miss an important argument, but that's okay because I could predict the argument I was missing. All those objections and counter arguments really didn't seem to add to what I was wanting to learn. This wasn't my first thread and I had seen many of the arguments before.

In reading this, I've come to the conclusion that what the Rs had to say about when they arrived home and what they say they did when the woke-up in the morning, really didn't matter. I really can't believe much about what they had to say. There are too many contradictions in their story. It only gets worse with later interviews. Everyone seems to forget that what they said after they lawyered-up is even more suspect than their early interviews. The lawyers had to be sure it matched their original stories. Do you think the lawyers aren't going to interview them? Do you think that they're not going to be told, "Don't say it that way. Say it this way?" "Don't say that at all. 'You don't remember.'" Just as if you were going to do a show: rehearse, rehearse, rehearse. And when in doubt, "you don't remember." Of course, lawyers will tell them to tell the truth. Right?

The basement bathroom discussion was important to me. I know it's been played-out on other threads, but this room is only a few feet from where the body was found. It was carefully searched. Information about what may have been found in there my still be withheld. Talking about it might give someone like me an idea. It's not a waste of time.

It's also funny to see how a smudge of feces on a box has turned into the whole box being covered or each individual chocolate being covered in poo. I've read so much conflicting info on this. Does anyone know if it was just a smudge or if they've now decided to do a 'South Park' and paint the whole bedroom in poo?

* Burke *

This is where I have something to add about Burke. It's about my past and it's something I really don't want to share, but I think it can provide an important insight. This is also really painful and it hurts to even think about it.

When I was 9, my mother was in her 3rd marriage. I had 2 older half brothers. We weren't very close. The marriage went south and the step father seemed to distance himself from the family. Then my mother attempted suicide. I remember standing in the entry with my brothers watching the police and the paramedics. It was a crazy. There was a lot of commotion with a lot of people. My mother was taken out on a stretcher. And then there seemed to be quiet with me and my brothers there. My stepfather was nowhere to be seen. There was no one else there. My brothers just looked at each other and decided to go sleep-over at their friends house. I decided it was bedtime so I went to bed.

The next day, I got myself up in an empty house and went to school. I absolutely wanted to visit my mother in the hospital only there was no adult around. I had no idea how to do that. I really didn't have anyone to talk to about it at school. I didn't want to either. I found my way home and I don't really remember how I got though the next few days before she came back home. I just went on with my routine. When she came back, we never talked about it...ever. I knew it was something we couldn't talk about. I had an instinct about that.

A couple of weeks went by before it happened again. This time I had the memory of my older brother pulling the shotgun out of the closet and threatening to blow his brains out. My other brother talked him out of it before the cops and the paramedics got there. After everyone left my brothers went off to sleep at their friends house, I decided to go to bed again. This time, I remember my older adult half sister coming into the house to babysit. That somehow made second time it happened a little better. I didn't talk with her about it. She wasn't there in the morning when I got myself off to school. I still didn't have anyone close at school or at home to talk to about it. It seemed too taboo. I just went through the motions of my life holding that bad stuff inside and sharing it with no one.

My point here is that I've seen a lot of people judge Burke. They've said that he was cold and distant. They've said that the picture he painted of his family somehow implicates him. I have no idea what image I would have drawn at that age. It may have been just me and my mother. Maybe I wouldn't have drawn anything at all. He may well have known that there was nothing he could do. The world had gone crazy and he needed to get tough it--to do what was expected of him. At that age, nobody told me how terrible my life was. I really didn't know how to react. The world was falling down and I had no one to rely on so I just did what I thought I was supposed to do and hope for the best.

I don't know if Burke had anything to do with JonBenet's murder. When I was going through all that stuff in my past, someone may have seen me to be just as cold and distant. It just really didn't paint a picture of how I felt then and how I can't bear to remember it now.

And of course, these are my opinions.
 
  • #2,066
It seems I can recall something about one of Patsy's interviews in which she answers "No" to a stream of questions. Then she's asked if she checked up on JonBenet at any time during the night and Patsy answers "Not that I can recall".
 
  • #2,067
Hugs to BoldBear for sharing the story. I'm sorry all that happened to you, especially at a young age. Your compassion is very admirable.
 
  • #2,068
Just wondering here, the tape and cord were purchased in December, and then JB ends up dead, in December, cord and tape were both used on her. Could this be a coincidence?, or did someone plan this?
 
  • #2,069
Just wondering here, the tape and cord were purchased in December, and then JB ends up dead, in December, cord and tape were both used on her. Could this be a coincidence?, or did someone plan this?

I think it was coincidence/convenience. I believe the cord and tape were likely bought for some other purpose and happened to be available when they 'needed' it. JMO!
 
  • #2,070
I'm sure this hs been brought up before but I'm looking for a couple of books both About the JBR murder. From both camps, the poor Ramseys are innocent and need to be left alone and the other camp that evidence point to nobody else but the Ramseys and/or household guests. Any Ideas? Thanks in advance.
 
  • #2,071
I think she wrote the note.


The question for me is was she the killer?


Which is quite hard for me to get around that she killed her daughter in the manner in which it happened.
 
  • #2,072
I think she wrote the note.


The question for me is was she the killer?


Which is quite hard for me to get around that she killed her daughter in the manner in which it happened.

I think a big problem with this case is that many sleuths, both amateur and professional who worked the case, is that they get a mental block that doesn't allow them to believe that the parents would do this or the brother would do that. Truth is, as I've seen Dave say many times, is that average people are capable of doing horrendous things. It happens all the time, so why are the Ramsey's any different. Truth is they are not and they are just as capable of having committed this crime as anyone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #2,073
Given what we have learned in retrospect, we know that most of what the Ramsey's have said (about what happened on December 25th and 26th) has been lies. We do not know who was at the White's party, what happened at the party. Did they really deliver gifts after the party or did Doug Stine came home with them? Why would they plan a complicated trip to Michigan, when the other kids could have as easily flown to Boulder. What hinky things happened with the Stines? We only know what they have said, and not much of it really makes sense.

To me, answering the following 2 questions would solve the murder:

1. Why did PR call 911 and others, notwithstanding threats in the RN. The only plausible answer IMO is that PR feared for her life (and/or Burke's safety), regardless whether she penned the RN.

2. BBM above. IMO the murder was premeditated and/or JAR was involved in the molestation.
 
  • #2,074
I imagine that Patsy inflicted the initial head wound and penned the ransom note. The garroting and other "staging" seems more like something a man would cook up. But that's just a guess.

Patsy thrived on being dramatic (hence the crazy long ransom note and breathless 9-11 call). The interrogation where she slams her hands on the table and says "let's FIND the person who did this!" looks like something out of a made-for-TV movie. It's bad acting. Really bad. Her gestures are grand and dramatic but her emotions are shallow. Don't think I ever saw a tear fall from her eyes (despite plenty of "crying"). The phrases in the ransom note are obviously lifted from popular movies. I think she honestly believed her life was a movie.

Whether it was intentional or not, Jonbenet became more famous in death than in life. Patsy clearly wanted to be famous herself, then when that fell through she pushed her daughter to become the next Miss America. The way the Ramseys capitalized on this tragedy is very shady even if they're not guilty. Books, talk shows, press conferences, interviews and all the other attention-wh0ring actions speak volumes about their character. And John's still at it!
 
  • #2,075
To me, answering the following 2 questions would solve the murder:

1. Why did PR call 911 and others, notwithstanding threats in the RN. The only plausible answer IMO is that PR feared for her life (and/or Burke's safety), regardless whether she penned the RN.

Why would Patsy fear for her life if she wrote the not? If she wrote it the threats are meaningless, its as simple as that.
 
  • #2,076
I imagine that Patsy inflicted the initial head wound and penned the ransom note. The garroting and other "staging" seems more like something a man would cook up. But that's just a guess.

Patsy thrived on being dramatic (hence the crazy long ransom note and breathless 9-11 call). The interrogation where she slams her hands on the table and says "let's FIND the person who did this!" looks like something out of a made-for-TV movie. It's bad acting. Really bad. Her gestures are grand and dramatic but her emotions are shallow. Don't think I ever saw a tear fall from her eyes (despite plenty of "crying"). The phrases in the ransom note are obviously lifted from popular movies. I think she honestly believed her life was a movie.

Whether it was intentional or not, Jonbenet became more famous in death than in life. Patsy clearly wanted to be famous herself, then when that fell through she pushed her daughter to become the next Miss America. The way the Ramseys capitalized on this tragedy is very shady even if they're not guilty. Books, talk shows, press conferences, interviews and all the other attention-wh0ring actions speak volumes about their character. And John's still at it!

What makes doing press conferences, talk shows, and interviews "shady" or capitalizing on the case when a lot of parents of missing and murdered children do them or likely wish they had the opportunity to do them? I know a lot of people think their behavior was gross because they believe the R's killed their child, but in your post, it says "even if they're not guilty".
 
  • #2,077
Talking to the media is fine. Talking to CNN before talking to LE is unacceptable.


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  • #2,078
IMO it's super shady to go to the media before even talking to LE.

MONTHS before talking to LE.
 
  • #2,079
To me, answering the following 2 questions would solve the murder:

1. Why did PR call 911 and others, notwithstanding threats in the RN. The only plausible answer IMO is that PR feared for her life (and/or Burke's safety), regardless whether she penned the RN.

2. BBM above. IMO the murder was premeditated and/or JAR was involved in the molestation.

1) The threats were on the second page of the ransom note and reportedly Mrs Ramsey did not read the note in its entirety before dialing 911.

2) I don’t understand this question: Why would they plan a complicated trip to Michigan, when the other kids could have as easily flown to Boulder.
...

AK
 
  • #2,080
Talking to the media is fine. Talking to CNN before talking to LE is unacceptable.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unacceptable to whom?

Anyway, it is not true that they talked to the media before talking to BPD. They called BPD when the ransom note was discovered, invited them into their home and spent hours with them, answergin questions, offering information, being observed, etc
...

AK
 

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