Patsy Ramsey

[Rain on my Parade]

One odd trait that JonBenét picked up from her mother is winking. Pam Archuleta in What the Pilot's Wife Knew describes JonBenét winking at and flirting with her husband. At a few other places in the book, Archuleta describes Patsy's use of winking. For instance, "She had a way of winking at the audience as if she were talking to them with her body movements and her eyes."--Archuleta, Pam. Patsy Ramsey: What the Pilot's Wife Knew (Kindle Locations 179-180). Kindle Edition. Patsy even uses this winking bit on Pam.

Yes, I believe JB winked at somebody (could have been Mike) at Pasta Jays. So very inappropriate for a little girl. Clearly sending the wrong impression! I also recall that she was cold and PR wouldn't let her put on her sweater as she was “still on show”!
There were also several times (as the story go’s) that JB would yell at the housekeeper; as in bossing her around. Just another perfect example of what we are taught just rolls down hill. As sad as it seems, it was perhaps a blessing her life was cut short. There is a lot of sorting out she would have had to do as a women dealing with all of this!

It sounds like you read "Remembrance of Things Patsy" and followed some of the links. I don't think many people bothered to do that. There was frantic downvoting (and upvoting) right after I posted it, at a time when it was clear that people had not had time to read much or any of it. So thanks.

You’re very welcome. I read all the links. Most I knew about but not all. Wasn’t quite sure about the sheets though. Did the wash not get out all the urine or were they just dirty?

 

[fr brown]

Wasn’t quite sure about the sheets though. Did the wash not get out all the urine or were they just dirty?

The sheets collected from JonBenét's bed smelled strongly of urine, according to Steve Thomas. JonBenét's wetting the bed Christmas night is an important element of the scenario he presents in his book. The lab report confirms that a substance found in urine was found in areas of two sheets collected.

Lou Smit said that the sheets appeared "dry" in the crime scene photo he looked at and in his deposition he said that he didn't read anything in a lab report about sheets being urine-stained or smelling of urine. Probably true, but not the point.

I've never heard of laundering not getting all the urine out.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The sheets collected from JonBenét's bed smelled strongly of urine, according to Steve Thomas. JonBenét's wetting the bed Christmas night is an important element of the scenario he presents in his book. The lab report confirms that a substance found in urine was found in areas of two sheets collected.

Yes, I believe they said there was presence of creatinine.

I've never heard of laundering not getting all the urine out.

That is just grossly negligent! Unless for whatever reason, it was a coverup. I wonder if they collected dirty sheets for JB bed elsewhere?

 

[fr brown]

Recently there was a comment on another forum about Patsy being considered "strange and erratic" during her college years.

I own a copy of JonBenét's Mother: The Tragedy and the Truth! by Linda McLean, Patsy's high school speech coach who remained her friend, so I decided to see what her college friends said about her. This is a book of testimonials from friends, family, and acquaintances about Patsy's sterling character and great personality. The foreword is by Patsy and it has hallmarks of a Ramsey PR project. I fully expected to find some testimonials from her college years. Even Ted Bundy got testimonials.

To my surprise, I found not one testimonial anywhere in the book from a college friend, roommate, or instructor. There was barely a mention of Patsy's college years. We're told she went to an unnamed college and joined an unnamed sorority. There's a short testimonial from a pageant chaperone. Then Patsy meets John and gets married and the testimonials start again.

I was already aware that many of the book's chapters end with an assurance that Patsy had no secrets, no deep, dark secrets, no hidden secrets, no deviant behavior, no darker side, no foul moods, no strange behavior. This repetition was like getting hit in the head with a phone book.

College is where I would start looking for Patsy's secrets.

Since I wrote the above, I have found a testimonial in Chapter One from a college roommate (not the one with whom she moved to Georgia). This is a high school friend who roomed with Patsy for three of her college years. Either she shares Linda McLean's and Patsy's penchant for excessive !'s or her contribution was edited somewhat. Here's some of it: "But I am here to shout that Patsy is not that mother! She is not capable of anything like this! She is a good, warm, kind person--the very best! We all love her. And P, we always have been and always will be here for you!"

 

[CloudedTruth]

Since I wrote the above, I have found a testimonial in Chapter One from a college roommate (not the one with whom she moved to Georgia). This is a high school friend who roomed with Patsy for three of her college years. Either she shares Linda McLean's and Patsy's penchant for excessive !'s or her contribution was edited somewhat. Here's some of it: "But I am here to shout that Patsy is not that mother! She is not capable of anything like this! She is a good, warm, kind person--the very best! We all love her. And P, we always have been and always will be here for you!"

Certainly one should look at what was in the history of a person's life to help shed light on the type of person they became, and what things there are in that history that might impact certain events. I think PR became pretty adept at portraying herself in a certain way to most people. My own personal opinion is that it's the relationship with JR that may hold a lot of dark secrets. His persona is very controlled and he is the puller of the strings. I remember very well when this all broke in the news and we started to see JR & PR in their various interviews. I was immediately struck by his demeanor in particular. Cold, calculating and manipulative. I guess you could say I had a similar reaction to him as that of Det. Linda Arndt. Exactly by whose hand JB's death occurred I still cannot say with any certainty, but I do believe that the GJ got it right with the indictments......both parents were responsible for putting their child at risk. We are still surprised at what some people are capable of in certain situations. PR may have presented as good, warm & kind to some, but clearly there was an atmosphere in that house and certain conditions present, behind the walls of outer appearances, that she most likely was at least aware of if not a participant in, that led to the death of a child. And then self preservation comes into play, something which no one can predict what lengths people will go to in order to save themselves.

 

[ilovewings]

Yes, I believe JB winked at somebody (could have been Mike) at Pasta Jays. So very inappropriate for a little girl. Clearly sending the wrong impression! I also recall that she was cold and PR wouldn't let her put on her sweater as she was “still on show”!
There were also several times (as the story go’s) that JB would yell at the housekeeper; as in bossing her around. Just another perfect example of what we are taught just rolls down hill. As sad as it seems, it was perhaps a blessing her life was cut short. There is a lot of sorting out she would have had to do as a women dealing with all of this!


You’re very welcome. I read all the links. Most I knew about but not all. Wasn’t quite sure about the sheets though. Did the wash not get out all the urine or were they just dirty?

I would never ever ever say it may have been a blessing that Jon Benet's
Life was cut short!!!!! IMO that statement is appalling!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I would never ever ever say it may have been a blessing that Jon Benet's
Life was cut short!!!!! IMO that statement is appalling!

Yes, it is appalling! It’s the repercussions of the abuse and the effects it has on the rest of one’s life! This is all I was saying. I by no means stand by JB’s life being taken from her!

 

[CloudedTruth]

Yes, it is appalling! It’s the repercussions of the abuse and the effects it has on the rest of one’s life! This is all I was saying. I by no means stand by JB’s life being taken from her!

I totally understood your comment, and I have to say I agree. The effects of abuse and familial dysfunction are carried through to adulthood and can be difficult to navigate and for some impossible to overcome. We see this practically every day. It can manifest through a plethora of behaviors that are destructive and unhealthy......substance abuse, self harm, abusive treatment of others, anger issues, inability to hold a job, inability to have successful relationships, etc. It ruins lives.

 

[proust20]

JonBenet was already a crime victim before she perished. She deserves compassion and pity. There is no way to know what kind of adult she might have become. Abuse is damaging by its nature. However, Elizabeth Smart seems to have withstood her ordeal with courage and dignity. Let's not sell JB short. I think that eventually she may have turned her back on the whole pageant thing. When she'd have been eligible to become Miss America, that title already had lost its luster for most young women. She may have played the rebel and denied Patsy and Nedra the fulfilment of their fantasies. The affluence of her family should have provided many choices and career opportunities. Sadly, we will never know. Herein lies the tragedy.

I have always found it curious that Patsy was so all-in over Christmas and yet JB did not have Holiday themed sheets. The same goes for the kids' pajamas. Although, I believe that photos from a previous Christmas does show them in seasonal wear?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I totally understood your comment, and I have to say I agree. The effects of abuse and familial dysfunction are carried through to adulthood and can be difficult to navigate and for some impossible to overcome. We see this practically every day. It can manifest through a plethora of behaviors that are destructive and unhealthy......substance abuse, self harm, abusive treatment of others, anger issues, inability to hold a job, inability to have successful relationships, etc. It ruins lives.

Thank you for your understanding and validation on this matter!

 

[Rain on my Parade]

JonBenet was already a crime victim before she perished. She deserves compassion and pity. There is no way to know what kind of adult she might have become. Abuse is damaging by its nature. However, Elizabeth Smart seems to have withstood her ordeal with courage and dignity. Let's not sell JB short.

I think the difference here is that Elizabeth Smart was brought up knowing faith, love, and not as a SA victim; within her own home. While JB (went to church) her outward behavior doesn’t picture a gentle young lady in comparison. Everyone handles abuse differently and it comes in so many different forms. We cannot even begin to judge the effects of dysfunction she endured would have had on her.

I think that eventually she may have turned her back on the whole pageant thing. When she'd have been eligible to become Miss America, that title already had lost its luster for most young women. She may have played the rebel and denied Patsy and Nedra the fulfilment of their fantasies.

JB was rebellious. Who can blame her. Her mother and her mother’s family did push the pageant thing. IMO, JB wouldn’t have acted against them. She had no idea that being treated like this wasn’t normal (she was 3-6). It was normal for her and she did seem to like it.

I have always found it curious that Patsy was so all-in over Christmas and yet JB did not have Holiday themed sheets. The same goes for the kids' pajamas. Although, I believe that photos from a previous Christmas does show them in seasonal wear

Nobody would see the sheets as the beds were made first thing in the morning. Besides PR was all about the show. It was what people saw outside the house; not inside the house that mattered to her. Unless of course those outside were expected to come inside. This was attested too by housekeepers PR had. They had a hard time just picking up after BR and JB. I don’t recall themed Christmas pajamas being much of a thing in the 90’s or sheets for that matter.

 

[CloudedTruth]

I think the difference here is that Elizabeth Smart was brought up knowing faith, love, and not as a SA victim; within her own home. While JB (went to church) her outward behavior doesn’t picture a gentle young lady in comparison. Everyone handles abuse differently and it comes in so many different forms. We cannot even begin to judge the effects of dysfunction she endured would have had on her.


JB was rebellious. Who can blame her. Her mother and her mother’s family did push the pageant thing. IMO, JB wouldn’t have acted against them. She had no idea that being treated like this wasn’t normal (she was 3-6). It was normal for her and she did seem to like it.

I think it's a very important point regarding Elizabeth Smart vs. JonBenet. Not only was Elizabeth's upbringing much different, she was also 14 years old when she was kidnapped. Still young, but lots of differences between a 14 year old and a 6 year old. And while we don't know specific details, as has been noted JB already was a crime victim prior to her death. It's very likely that her abuser was a family member and/or someone she knew. Big difference there. That's the ultimate betrayal of a child's trust.

JB was starting to show a rebellious streak and standing up for herself to PR. I have read that she enjoyed the performing part of the pageant, but walking the runway not so much. One can also argue that at her age, kids just want to be kids. She was also a bit of a tomboy and loved to play. Pageant life required dance lessons, singing lessons, lessons on how to walk the runway and present one's self, rehearsals, costume fittings, the dying of the hair (which PR wanted everyone including JB to keep secret), make-up, hair styling......despite their protestations to the contrary, pageant life took up a lot of free time. I can totally see JB reaching an age where she might become resentful at having to spend so much time on pageant related stuff instead of playing like a normal child. We were already seeing glimpses of some resentment, and I think her comments to a friend about all the trophies and ribbons really being PR's is quite telling. I think refusing her mother, grandmother and aunts would've been hard for her to do as I'm sure she felt like it was expected of her. But I'm not so sure she would have continued to go along with all that without some sort of rebellion. It's also interesting to note that several of PR's friends thought it was getting to be too much. So much so that they were planning a sort of intervention after the holidays. There's a lot to be said about letting kids just be kids. I think the expectations placed upon JB were a lot for a 6 year old to have to deal with as much as she did.

 

[proust20]

Christmas outfits pre-1996

 

[proust20]

Pre-96

 

[CloudedTruth]

Pre-96View attachment 513744

I read that PR, BR and JB would be in matching Xmas outfits for the holiday home tours…..circa ‘93 I think was the last one they participated in?

 

[proust20]

Pre-96

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Pre-96View attachment 513839

I enjoyed your photographs. None of which are Christmas pajamas or bed sheets; just saying.

 

[snooptroop88]

This case is very near to my heart for different reasons. It fills me with grief that this little creature is no longer with us. Mortified to say it, but I don't think there will ever be any justice in this case. RIP JonBenet, who I believe would have been about to celebrate her 34th birthday in August.

Tragic.

 

[crazychris]

New two-hour Ch5 documentary here in the UK tonight at 10pm.

 

[RichardKimble]

New two-hour Ch5 documentary here in the UK tonight at 10pm.

Not sure it is new, the date on the end said 2022, I watched it, not sure to be honest on what to think on who could be responsible.