People being detained and "exported" by ICE

[Simply Southern]

Clearly states the president has sole authority for deportation or imprisonment. Also note, it doesn't require a crime of any type.

Wish I could remember the name of a book I read in the '80s. It was about a community in California of Japanese immigrants. The government passed out flyers giving them 24 hours to liquidate their assets and report to special buses to a detention camp near the Canadian border. They weren't detained for years, no hearing, no court, just rounded up under presidential order. Moo...

Alien and Sedition Acts (1798)

EnlargeDownload Link Citation: An Act Concerning Aliens, July 6, 1798; Fifth Congress; Enrolled Acts and Resolutions; General Records of the United States Government; Record Group 11; National Archives. View the Alien Act in the National Archives Catalog View the Sedition Act in the National...

www.archives.gov

SECTION 1. Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government, and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies. And the President of the United States shall be, and he is hereby authorized, in any event, as aforesaid, by his proclamation thereof, or other public act, to direct the conduct to be observed, on the part of the United States, towards the aliens who shall become liable, as aforesaid; the manner and degree of the restraint to which they shall be subject, and in what cases, and upon what security their residence shall be permitted, and to provide for the removal of those, who, not being permitted to reside within the United States, shall refuse or neglect to depart therefrom; and to establish any other regulations which shall be found necessary in the premises and for the public safety: Provided, that aliens resident within the United States, who shall become liable as enemies, in the manner aforesaid, and who shall not be chargeable with actual hostility, or other crime against the public safety, shall be allowed, for the recovery, disposal, and removal of their goods and effects, and for their departure, the full time which is, or shall be stipulated by any treaty, where any shall have been between the United States, and the hostile nation or government, of which they shall be natives, citizens, denizens or subjects: and where no such treaty shall have existed, the President of the United States may ascertain and declare such reasonable time as may be consistent with the public safety, and according to the dictates of humanity and national hospitality.

 

[Simply Southern]

This is as bad as denying he lost the election in 2020. I see a pattern.

MOO.

I posted the actual order from the Supreme Court. It clearly kicked it back to the lower court for clarification and definition. Once those are defined, the Supreme Court ruling suggested the lower court may not have authority.

I just posted the alien act. It's very clear the president has full authority to deport our enemies, without any criminal or hostile activity. And also requires courts, judges, US marshals to comply. It's a very inclusive act.

Moo...

 

[SouthAussie]

It's a very inclusive act.

Moo...

And a very scary Act to be used in this manner.

Just wait until his actions take on US citizens also.

This is all leading down a scary path ... when executive powers are allowed to override due process.

imo

 

[SouthAussie]

What's the purpose of the Alien Enemies Act?​

“Whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government … and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies.”

Congress amended it in 1918 to include women.

The Alien Enemies Act has been used three times in American history, all in connection with major military conflicts.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/19/nx-s1-5156027/alien-enemies-act-1798-trump-immigration#:~:text=The%20Alien%20Enemies%20Act%20of%201798%2C%20explained%20:%20NPR

 

[Lilibet]

Wish I could remember the name of a book I read in the '80s. It was about a community in California of Japanese immigrants. The government passed out flyers giving them 24 hours to liquidate their assets and report to special buses to a detention camp near the Canadian border. They weren't detained for years, no hearing, no court, just rounded up under presidential order. Moo...

I’m surprised you seem to think it was just “a community” of Japanese. The internment/incarceration of west coast Japanese (not just “a community”) in camps during WWII is well known and is considered a stain on our history. I have visited one of the camps, Manzanar, and the living conditions were inhumane.

Japanese American internment - Relocation, Segregation, Injustice | Britannica

Japanese American internment - Relocation, Segregation, Injustice: Conditions at the camps were spare. The internments led to legal fights, including Korematsu v. United States. In 1976 Gerald Ford repealed Executive Order 9066. In 1988 the U.S. Congress passed the Civil Liberties Act, which...

www.britannica.com

A presidential commission in 1982 identified race prejudice, war hysteria, and a failure of political leadership as the underlying causes of the government’s internment program. In 1988 the U.S. Congress passed the Civil Liberties Act, which awarded more than 80,000 Japanese Americans $20,000 each to compensate them for the ordeal they had suffered. Congress also issued a formal apology for the government’s policy toward Japanese Americans.

 

[HmmMysterious]

and, i'll add you didn't succeed when trying to debunk my posting of the actual scotus ruling earlier.

Lol, yes I did.

The Supreme Court on Thursday upheld a lower court order that the Trump administration must facilitate the return to the United States of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Maryland man who was forcibly and wrongly deported to El Salvador, where he is being held in a notorious prison.

The Supreme Court agreed with the district judge. She just needed to clarify her order.

Xinis, within hours, modified her order to reflect the Supreme Court decision. Her new order omitted the word “effectuate.”

“To this end, the Court hereby amends this Order to Direct that Defendants take all available steps to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia to the United States as soon as possible,” the judge wrote.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/10/supreme-court-trump-kilmar-abrego-garcia.html

 

[HmmMysterious]

I posted the actual order from the Supreme Court. It clearly kicked it back to the lower court for clarification and definition. Once those are defined, the Supreme Court ruling suggested the lower court may not have authority.

Here it is. Kilmar should come back.

In its ruling Thursday, the Supreme Court said, “The [district court] order properly requires the Government to ‘facilitate’ Abrego Garcia’s release from custody in El Salvador and to ensure that his case is handled as it would have been had he not been improperly sent to El Salvador.”

The SC basically agreed with Judge Xinis' ruling:

“To this end, the Court hereby amends this Order to Direct that Defendants take all available steps to facilitate the return of Abrego Garcia to the United States as soon as possible,” the judge wrote.

I just posted the alien act. It's very clear the president has full authority to deport our enemies, without any criminal or hostile activity.

Can Trump deport himself? Since clearly, he gets along so well with Nayib Bukele that maybe Trump should move there.

 

[Lilibet]

DBM

 

[Lilibet]

I just posted the alien act. It's very clear the president has full authority to deport our enemies, without any criminal or hostile activity. And also requires courts, judges, US marshals to comply. It's a very inclusive act.

That whenever there shall be a declared war between the United States and any foreign nation or government, or any invasion or predatory incursion shall be perpetrated, attempted, or threatened against the territory of the United States, by any foreign nation or government, and the President of the United States shall make public proclamation of the event, all natives, citizens, denizens, or subjects of the hostile nation or government, being males of the age of fourteen years and upwards, who shall be within the United States, and not actually naturalized, shall be liable to be apprehended, restrained, secured and removed, as alien enemies.

You will note that the Alien Enemies Act was to be used during “war with any foreign nation or government” or “any invasion or predatory incursion against the U.S. by any foreign nation or government.” It has only been used during war.

Trump would like you to believe that illegal immigrants coming to this country are an invasion, but they are not a foreign nation or government. They are individuals acting on their own, not on behalf of a nation or government. So the Alien Enemies Act does not apply to illegal immigrants.

As usual, felon Trump is pushing the bounds of the law and daring the courts to defy him. Unfortunately the courts have no way to enforce any decision against Trump and he is using that to create an autocratic government…a tyranny, if you will. This will ultimately affect all of us, even Trump supporters, not just illegal immigrants.

JMO

 

[Anance]

by stating that incomplete and/or incorrect information in posted links can lead people to believe something that's not true or lead to incorrect opinions/thoughts which is what i said. that is simply a fact - no matter what is being discussed. i made no accusations. it seems you misunderstood, misread and/or misinterpreted my post.

jmo

Fred,

Your deep dive is commendable, but it doesn't change the legal principle in question - as old as the Magna Carta (1215). Specifically, clause 42.

No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.

 

[fred&edna]

Fred,

Your deep dive is commendable, but it doesn't change the legal principle in question - as old as the Magna Carta (1215). Specifically, clause 42.

ahh back to ye merry ol' england influence on the constitution and such.

i'll just point you to the article 2 and article 3 branches of government and their powers, and it appears the executive power seems to be ruling atm

i am posting this partly in jest and hopefully you understand. it's late and i'm tired of squabbling, arguing, etc. all the best.



jmo

 

[Anance]

i think the 2019 ms-13 gang member ruling made that impossible with the alien enemies act in 2025. as a judged ms-13 gang member and ordered deported he met the alien enemies act to be deported under that act... no matter if he had a criminal record or not. the best thing would have been for him - and maybe wife/children - to leave the us after the immigration court ordered him to be deported back in 2019. but, i think things have gotten so bad in this country the alien enemies act was/is necessary.

all jmo

BBM

Thanks for clearing up for all of us your overwhelming interest in convincing us of the legality of the deportation. Again, you are bringing up details w/out considering the overriding the legal principle, which goes back to the Magna Carta

No free man shall be seized, imprisoned, dispossessed, outlawed, exiled or ruined in any way, nor in any way proceeded against, except by the lawful judgement of his peers and the law of the land.

 

[branmuffin]

if this is in reply to my post regarding the 2019 abrego-garcia case... the judge believed the allegations regarding abrego-garcia being an ms-13 gang member, thus his ruling, and abrego-garcia provided no evidence to the contrary. he ignored becoming a citizen for years, he failed to appear in court, he ignored the privileges of living in the us gave him. people everywhere seem to think it's okay to pick and choose which judge ruling to follow. sticking to the constitution and the appreciating the privileges of living in the us is my choice.

if it's not in reply to my post, please ignore

jmo

How do you prove a negative? What kind of proof would you be looking for the verify the allegations? ICE did nothing. I know people who have lived in Canada for twenty years and have no plans to become a Canadian citizen. They can work, pay into a pension, receive a pension from the federal government. There's very little restrictions for a landed immigrant with permanent resident status who wishes to live and die in a country of their choosing, without ever becoming a citizen. The only thing they can't do is vote in elections or run for office. I would imagine there's lots of people that. If you commit a crime there is a possibility you could be stripped of your landed immigrant status. But there is a legal process.

If the rule of law doesn't apply to this segment of society what's to stop it from applying to other aspects of law and order? It's a slippery slope to presume that all of those individuals who have been shipped to El Salvador don't qualify for due process.

 

[airportwoman]

Unfortunately, I don’t think Mr Garcia is ever coming back from El Salvador. The Supreme Court ruling is technically a win but there’s nothing in there that would “force” El Salvador to return him and it’s vague enough that the Trump administration can feign that they are “working on it” without actually doing anything.

And as pessimistic as this sound, I wonder if he is even still alive The White House definitely does not want him to return to the US to be able to share his side of the story with the media. That prison is really not some place that you really get out of. All MOO. And I hope I’m wrong and he does get to come back to his family! But I’m not super optimistic about that happening under this administration.

I also think it's quite likely that he's deceased, whether naturally or not we will probably never know if that's true, and "not bringing him back" is part of the coverup.

 

[Trooper]

I suppose if this 'law' whereby people can be swept off the streets, labelled as alien, and gang related etc, criminal, and this 'law' is the genuine thing, is kosher,, ..the same prerogative would hold for the next president .. who could, technically , sweep Trump off the golf course and off to Patagonia , to a chilly concrete cell, with an open tiny window where the Antarctic winds blow day and night, never to be heard of again.. Him and Vance, and Miller, and Lutnik, still giggling and yammering.. the whole gang...

 

[Lilibet]

I also think it's quite likely that he's deceased, whether naturally or not we will probably never know if that's true, and "not bringing him back" is part of the coverup.

Yikes! I hadn’t thought about the possibility that “not bringing him back” is a cover-up for his death. I expect you’re right. I feel awful for his wife and kids and family in El Salvador. The cruelty is the point.

This is now a possibility for citizens.

JMO

 

[branmuffin]

What I would like to know is whenever I've read statistics about unauthorized immigrants in the US the numbers say that between 33% to 48% are those that let their visas lapse. So of the supposedly 5 million or so illegals in the US nearly half of them are those that entered legally at one point.

And yet every single deportation isn't about those people, it's about a segment of the population who has the same illegal status but are people who are visibly identifiable by LE and ICE personnel so they resort to shaking down Hispanics on the street to find out whether they are illegals. I'm sure they're not going up to blond, blue-eyed Germans or Swiss, or British or even Indians and asking them to show some ID. So what it all boils down to, imo, is that this has more to do with getting rid of the brown folk.

When they start duck walking some 40 year old white guy with a newly shaved head, sans tattoos, wearing ankle socks and flip flops I might change my mind. Right now, I think the United States of America is in a precarious position. Not on the world stage playing chicken with peoples livelihoods with their asinine tariff debacle but because they are devolving into an authoritarian state where people's right to due process, freedom of expression, and religious and personal freedoms are at stake and a large segment of the population seem thrilled by it. It's terrifying to witness, but witness it, I will.

 

[Kavya01]

Clearly states the president has sole authority for deportation or imprisonment. Also note, it doesn't require a crime of any type.

Wish I could remember the name of a book I read in the '80s. It was about a community in California of Japanese immigrants. The government passed out flyers giving them 24 hours to liquidate their assets and report to special buses to a detention camp near the Canadian border. They weren't detained for years, no hearing, no court, just rounded up under presidential order. Moo...

Sounds like you are referring to "Snow Falling on Cedars"? Beautiful, beautiful novel.

 

[Vern]

From your link:

"Moreover, it has been the Government’s own well-established policy to “facilitate [an] al-ien’s return to the United States if . . . the alien’s presence
is necessary for continued administrative removal proceed-
ings” in cases where a noncitizen has been removed pending
immigration proceedings.
Facilitating the Return to the United States of Certain Lawfully Removed Al-
iens, §2 (Feb. 24, 2012).
In the proceedings on remand, the District Court should
continue to ensure that the Government lives up to its obligations to follow the law"

Come on now, you're quoting law and precedents. Law and Order so to say. The Judicial Branch now being ignored. As opposed to the Legislative Branch who remains complicitly silent.

Those Branchs, the Constitution and court rulings - even from SCOTUS - don't matter any more to this Executive Branch.

Welcome to the dictatorship.

IMO.

-

 

[Trooper]

Sounds like you are referring to "Snow Falling on Cedars"? Beautiful, beautiful novel.

You can watch the movie.. ( East of the Mountains was such a resonating novel, too. )