People being detained and "exported" by ICE

[fred&edna]

“Illegal” immigrants paid $96B in federal and state taxes in 2022 so I do not agree with your statement that they pay “very little”

Tax Payments by Undocumented Immigrants

Undocumented immigrants paid $96.7 billion in federal, state, and local taxes in 2022. Providing access to work authorization for undocumented immigrants would increase their tax contributions both because their wages would rise and because their rates of tax compliance would increase.

itep.org

I guess we will have to just fundamentally disagree on this issue because I for one will never be upset that a child who’s parents came here “illegally” to give them a better life will be enrolled in public school with my own children. I don’t consider them a “drain” on our resources or that they are a competition in my life.

What i would love is if billionaires paid more (or any!) taxes so that the middle class can wasn’t dwindling away. The main problems in our country isn’t illegal immigration; it’s the fact that billionaires, corporations and our current government have convinced people that the “illegal” immigrants are the problem when it’s really the power hungry oligarchs trying to get richer and richer at the cost of the rest of us. All MOO.

yes, we will have to agree to disagree.

https://budget.house.gov/imo/media/doc/the_cost_of_illegal_immigration_to_taxpayers.pdf

Illegal immigrants are a significant net fiscal drain -- paying less in taxes than they use in publicservices. The primary reason they create more in costs than they pay in taxes is their relative lowlevels of education. Based on prior research, 69 percent of adult illegal immigrants have noeducation beyond high school, compared to 35 percent of the U.S.-born. As a result, they tend toearn modest wages and make modest tax contributions even when income and payroll taxes aretaken out of their pay. This fact, coupled with the relatively heavy demands they make on publiccoffers -- especially for education, health care, and means-tested programs -- is the reason theyare a net fiscal drain.

jmo

 

[Summerliz03]

There’s also an increased burden on some state’s medicaid programs. imo.

SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — California Gov. Gavin Newsom signed legislation Monday to close a $2.8 billion budget gap in the state’s Medicaid services and ensure coverage through June for 15 million people, including immigrants, who receive health care via the program.
(…)
It comes a year after California launched an ambitious coverage expansion to provide free health care to all low-income adults regardless of their immigration status.

California OKs $2.8B to close Medicaid funding gap after expanding immigrant coverage

California Gov. Gavin Newsom has signed legislation to provide $2.8 billion to close the budget hole in the state's Medicaid program.

apnews.com

How is this a problem? Why shouldn’t we want universal healthcare FOR ALL?? How has every other developed country in this world figured out how to provide access to healthcare at low (or free!) costs except the US? Why does the average American have to choose between paying a large medical bill or putting food on their table? Why are health care companies a multi billion dollar money making corporation? The reason we don’t have universal healthcare in this country isn’t because some illegal immigrants are getting access to Medicaid. Again MOO.

 

[Lilibet]

i would also like to remind everyone living across the world, the link below is a big reason why many us citizens are and have been upset by illegal immigration policies over the past few years is the cost to taxpayers. this is in addition to the serious violence inflicted by known/judged illegal ms-13 and tda gang-members. the cost to house them in cecot is far less than we would be facing if things had continued under biden-era immigration policies. i've snipped a quote regarding the fact that even those illegal immigrants who pay taxes cannot balance the overall fiscal burden to our country. also, there are many reasons why nearly every country - if not all -has laws and regulations regarding illegal entry/residence. imo, legal entry and continuing to abide by the laws of the usa is fine. illegal entry and failure to obey our laws isn't fine.

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/117257/witnesses/HHRG-118-BU00-Wstate-KirchnerJ-20240508.pdf

The fiscal burden of illegal immigration is due to several factors. First, because illegal aliens usually havelow incomes, those who do pay taxes pay little, if anything. Second, illegal aliens incur significant coststo the taxpayer on a daily basis, because public services such as policing, K-12 education, emergencyservices, etc., are provided universally. Further, due to loose eligibility criteria – intentional or otherwise– many illegal aliens receive benefits from federal, state, and local jurisdictions, despite the fact thatthey have no legal status.


jmo

I don’t think anyone here is denying that illegal immigration is a serious problem. But this thread is about immigrants being “detained and ‘exported’ by ICE.” Since Trump took office the methods ICE uses are aggressive and too often deprive the immigrants of due process, which they are entitled to.

It’s clear to me that those unconstitutional and cruel methods are fine with you, Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem and Trump, as long as immigrants are removed and we can save money. They are viewed as invaders and other dehumanizing terms Trump has used. The government has admitted that many of the men sent to El Salvador had no criminal record, meaning they were not violent gang members. Among them is a gay makeup artist. But they were exported without due process.

And we all heard the laughter in the Oval Office yesterday when Trump told Bukele he wanted to send American citizen prisoners to El Salvador. What was so funny about that? This discussion is bigger than immigrants. It now includes Americans and it may well come to include those who simply disagree with Trump if his treatment of law firms, universities, Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor are any indication. We’re looking at tyranny by a dictator. Is this really what you want just so the immigrant problem is “solved”?

JMO

 

[Cedars]

It's interesting to me as an outside observer to see the fundamental disagreement here (it's happened elsewhere, like Europe). It's not my country, not my business, but I just want to point out the extreme contradiction between the message sent by the famous Statue of Liberty, and the current policies...

JMO

 

[Lilibet]

It's interesting to me as an outside observer to see the fundamental disagreement here (it's happened elsewhere, like Europe). It's not my country, not my business, but I just want to point out the extreme contradiction between the message sent by the famous Statue of Liberty, and the current policies...

JMO

I meant to quote that message earlier. Thanks for the reminder.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I don’t think anyone here is denying that illegal immigration is a serious problem. But this thread is about immigrants being “detained and ‘exported’ by ICE.” Since Trump took office the methods ICE uses are aggressive and too often deprive the immigrants of due process, which they are entitled to.

It’s clear to me that those unconstitutional and cruel methods are fine with you, Stephen Miller, Kristi Noem and Trump, as long as immigrants are removed and we can save money. They are viewed as invaders and other dehumanizing terms Trump has used. The government has admitted that many of the men sent to El Salvador had no criminal record, meaning they were not violent gang members. Among them is a gay makeup artist. But they were exported without due process.

And we all heard the laughter in the Oval Office yesterday when Trump told Bukele he wanted to send American citizen prisoners to El Salvador. This discussion is bigger than immigrants. It now includes Americans and it may well come to include those who simply disagree with Trump if his treatment of law firms, universities, Chris Krebs and Miles Taylor are any indication. We’re looking at tyranny by a dictator. Is this really what you want just so the immigrant problem is “solved”?

JMO

I don’t think deportation is cruel. There are countries that jail illegal immigrants before deporting them. Illegal immigrants in the UK or detained while they wait to be deported or accepted into the country. They aren’t allowed free range until then.

Yet here we are, expecting the US to do something different. I wonder how many countries allow MS-13 gang members to roam unchecked. IMO MOO

Punishment for Illegally Entering Countries 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[Cedars]

I meant to quote that message earlier. Thanks for the reminder.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

I think it's safe to say that many people around the world, who don't know much about the US, believe that message is true. No other country more grandly, famously, sends out that message.

So, I don't think anyone should blame or punish migrants for going to the US, it's right there in the 'advertising'.

IMO it will take a long time to change that messaging, and it will have to start by taking the statue down.

JMO

 

[fred&edna]

I meant to quote that message earlier. Thanks for the reminder.

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,"

breathing free has a price... enter legally and abide by the laws. lying on visas, terrorist gang-membership and ignoring deportation laws.... isn't optional. the usa isn't the only country with laws, policies and procedures for non-citizen entry/continued residence. us taxpayers cannot afford overwhelming debt incurred by those who do not abide by laws, and are allowed to drain the us fiscal budget with free programs... no matter how poor, tired, and huddle they may be. it's bewildering to me why anyone expects the us or any other country to accept such behavior.

abrego-garcia entered the us illegally in 2011. he didn't file for asylum from 2011 to 2019. he ignored his deportation order... issued by an immigration judge in 2019 and lost his appeal... which was all due process. i don't know why immigration didn't deport him in 2019, and i don't know why he didn't leave on his own to a country that would welcome him.

jmo

eta; maybe another country will come to his aid and ask el salvador to release him and his family to them.

 

[branmuffin]

If El Salvador happens to return him to the US then the US will likely go through the process of having him deported back to El Salvador. It’s my understanding that he is a citizen of El Salvador. The US can’t deport him to another country. imo

That's true, he could be deported back to El Salvador. But being deported back to his home country is not the same him being put on a flight where his final destination is a prison. Surely, you can see how those two situations are completely different.

 

[Simply Southern]

BBM

Thanks for clearing up for all of us your overwhelming interest in convincing us of the legality of the deportation. Again, you are bringing up details w/out considering the overriding the legal principle, which goes back to the Magna Carta

Not sure I have the Magna Carta if a factor. That was the King of England. It may have guided US founding fathers, but was never adopted.

 

[Cedars]

That's true, he could be deported back to El Salvador. But being deported back to his home country is not the same him being put on a flight where his final destination is a prison. Surely, you can see how those two situations are completely different.

Yes, as I understand it, El Salvador's new government declared a State of Emergency several years ago which suspended many parts of their constitution, such as due process for those suspected of being members of the notorious gangs that terrorized the country... Anyone suspected of being a member of a gang are just rounded up and thrown into jail for a minimum of 2 years

For many ordinary people in El Salvador, it's a relief, because of the extreme violence and lawlessness the country has experienced, for decades.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/12/americas/el-salvador-returners-bukele-crackdown/index.html

However, I disagree with the idea the US is in anything like that situation. That the US is a dirt poor, undeveloped, ungovernable country beset by constant gang violence, requiring the suspension of the constitution etc. After all, who are the people trying to assassinate government/business leaders?

JMO

 

[TheTeach]

Her predictions are coming true-- and it is chilling !!!! what is shocking is how fast this is happening--- I think people better be careful what they say on social media like Face Book----or they could get a knock on their door- that is where I see this country today!!!!

Off topic, sort of. An ad for a "company" that helps with getting an adult autism diagnosis popped up on my feed on Facebook. Most of the comments were people urging others not to push for a diagnosis now, for fear of being targeted by current administration. Scary times.

If nothing is done, I know in time, "enemy" will take on many more forms.

 

[HmmMysterious]

abrego-garcia entered the us illegally in 2011. he didn't file for asylum from 2011 to 2019. he ignored his deportation order... issued by an immigration judge in 2019 and lost his appeal... which was all due process. i don't know why immigration didn't deport him in 2019, and i don't know why he didn't leave on his own to a country that would welcome him.

jmo

eta; maybe another country will come to his aid and ask el salvador to release him and his family to them.

And now he's coming back on SCOTUS' orders and hopefully Abrego-Garcia will be able to work and take care of his daughters again. So nothing what you says matters now.

he ignored his deportation order... issued by an immigration judge in 2019 and lost his appeal... which was all due process.

Now we're just making things up now, huh?

lying on visas

Didn't Melania overstay hers?

 

[Simply Southern]

i would also like to remind everyone living across the world, the link below is a big reason why many us citizens are and have been upset by illegal immigration policies over the past few years - the cost to us taxpayers. this is in addition to the serious violence inflicted by known/judged illegal ms-13 and tda gang-members. the cost to house them in cecot is far less than we would be facing if things had continued under biden-era immigration policies. i've snipped a quote regarding the fact that even those illegal immigrants who pay taxes cannot balance the overall fiscal burden to our country. also, there are many reasons why nearly every country - if not all -has laws and regulations regarding illegal entry/residence. imo, legal entry and continuing to abide by the laws of the usa is fine. illegal entry and failure to obey our laws isn't fine.

https://www.congress.gov/118/meeting/house/117257/witnesses/HHRG-118-BU00-Wstate-KirchnerJ-20240508.pdf

The fiscal burden of illegal immigration is due to several factors. First, because illegal aliens usually havelow incomes, those who do pay taxes pay little, if anything. Second, illegal aliens incur significant coststo the taxpayer on a daily basis, because public services such as policing, K-12 education, emergencyservices, etc., are provided universally. Further, due to loose eligibility criteria – intentional or otherwise– many illegal aliens receive benefits from federal, state, and local jurisdictions, despite the fact thatthey have no legal status.


jmo

eta - freedom isn't free. there 'ain't no free' people, there's a cost paid by someone living now or gave their lives for freedom and the us constitution/laws. and, respect is earned. imo

Totally agree. Many countries only allow citizenship after meeting financial requirements, some include proof of good health. Moo....

 

[Vern]

I don’t think deportation is cruel. There are countries that jail illegal immigrants before deporting them. Illegal immigrants in the UK or detained while they wait to be deported or accepted into the country. They aren’t allowed free range until then.

Yet here we are, expecting the US to do something different. I wonder how many countries allow MS-13 gang members to roam unchecked. IMO MOO

Punishment for Illegally Entering Countries 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

You're right. "Some" countries do detain illegal immigrants.

Difference is, that all of those countries that do 'detain' actually do not "detain" all of them as you alledge. Some, in fact most, of them are indeed 'free-ranging'. SOME of them are detained ---- after a hearing ---- let's call that 'due process' --- to determine whether or not they are an immediate danger or risk. Those that are determined to be so are 'detained' until the final disposition of their immigration case. Quite like the USofA used to see as it's 'due process'.

Absolutely zero of those other nations are "detaining them all - or even most" as you alledge.
Absolutely zero of those other countries are exporting or deporting anyone without 'due process'.
Absolutely zero of those countries are exporting unconvicted-of-any-crimes-ever individuals to PRISONS in third countries.

Fact: the US is currently doing something extremely different from the other nations and contrary to even it's OWN Constitution.

If the facts were that the US was actually doing what other countries were, no one would be "expecting the US to do something different".

We are expecting something different because the US current actions in no way, shape, or form are equivelant to business as usual in other nations or pre-Jan 20th 2025 USofA.

IMO.
-

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

I think it's safe to say that many people around the world, who don't know much about the US, believe that message is true. No other country more grandly, famously, sends out that message.

So, I don't think anyone should blame or punish migrants for going to the US, it's right there in the 'advertising'.

IMO it will take a long time to change that messaging, and it will have to start by taking the statue down.

JMO

It's interesting to me as an outside observer to see the fundamental disagreement here (it's happened elsewhere, like Europe). It's not my country, not my business, but I just want to point out the extreme contradiction between the message sent by the famous Statue of Liberty, and the current policies...

JMO

The New Colossus is a sonnet written by Emma Lazarus to help raise money for the pedestal.

It is not an advertisement nor does it have anything to do with the rule of law in the U.S on immigration. imo

 

[HmmMysterious]

The New Colossus is a sonnet written by Emma Lazarus to help raise money for the pedestal.

It is not an advertisement nor does it have anything to do with the rule of law in the U.S on immigration. imo

Lazarus assisted Jewish refugees who had fled antisemtic pogroms in Eastern Europe, so clearly she wrote that expecting the U.S to live up to the sonnet's message.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

You're right. "Some" countries do detain illegal immigrants.

Difference is, that all of those countries that do 'detain' actually do not "detain" all of them as you alledge. Some, in fact most, of them are indeed 'free-ranging'. SOME of them are detained ---- after a hearing ---- let's call that 'due process' --- to determine whether or not they are an immediate danger or risk. Those that are determined to be so are 'detained' until the final disposition of their immigration case. Quite like the USofA used to see as it's 'due process'.

Absolutely zero of those other nations are "detaining them all - or even most" as you alledge.
Absolutely zero of those other countries are exporting or deporting anyone without 'due process'.
Absolutely zero of those countries are exporting unconvicted-of-any-crimes-ever individuals to PRISONS in third countries.

Fact: the US is currently doing something extremely different from the other nations and contrary to even it's OWN Constitution.

If the facts were that the US was actually doing what other countries were, no one would be "expecting the US to do something different".

We are expecting something different because the US current actions in no way, shape, or form are equivelant to business as usual in other nations or pre-Jan 20th 2025 USofA.

IMO.
-

There’s a right way to apply for immigration and asylum in many countries. In the UK, if you’re there illegally, you are detained, until a decision is made. You are not allowed to roam the country freely. It’s that way in many countries. imo

 

[Vern]

Lazarus assisted Jewish refugees who had fled antisemtic pogroms in Eastern Europe, so clearly she wrote that expecting the U.S to live up to the sonnet's message.

And quoted by a great many US Presidents in their speechs.

Not a legal edict, but also faaaaar from being 'meaningless' to the USofA, their 'melting pot' and the values it, and it's previous Presidents as the core values and significance that they espoused to the world prior to 20th January 2025.

IMO.
.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Lazarus assisted Jewish refugees who had fled antisemtic pogroms in Eastern Europe, so clearly she wrote that expecting the U.S to live up to the sonnet's message.

That’s a noble cause. But she didn’t have control over the immigration laws of the United States.