People being detained and "exported" by ICE

[BayouBelle_LA]

Lazarus assisted Jewish refugees who had fled antisemtic pogroms in Eastern Europe, so clearly she wrote that expecting the U.S to live up to the sonnet's message.

That’s a noble cause. But she didn’t have control over the immigration laws of the United States.

 

[ilovewings]

I absolutely.agree. Just watching about ten minutes of Stephen Miller’s press conference (all I could stomach) convinced me that they are enjoying the cruelty. I turned it off when he referred to illegal immigrants as “invaders.” Terminology like that lets them justify the use of the Alien Enemies Act, which only applies to governments invading, not individuals.

JMO

Trump and his cronies are sadists IMO- they enjoy inflicting pain upon the citizens of this country- and not just immigrants

 

[tlcya]

That’s a noble cause. But she didn’t have control over the immigration laws of the United States.

neither does POTUS.

He hasn't got the power to make or interpret law.

 

[ilovewings]

I don’t want to derail the thread into a discussion of the Magna Carta except to correct such a dismissive attitude toward it. Historically, the U.S. Constitution owes a great deal to the Magna Carta as understood by the Founding Fathers.

As I’m sure you know, we have three branches of government that operate with a system of checks and balances to prevent one branch from becoming more powerful than another if the checks and balances are observed. However, what we are faced with now is a President (executive branch) who believes he has unlimited power. The Republican legislature won’t exercise its power to check him and he ignores the courts who have no power to enforce their decisions. This was not the intention of the Founding Fathers who were trying to prevent a tyrannical dictator/king wannabe like Donald Trump.

Regarding the Magna Carta’s influence on the U.S. Constitution:

Magna Carta and the U.S. Constitution - Magna Carta: Muse and Mentor | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Magna Carta exercised a strong influence both on the United States Constitution and on the constitutions of the various states. However, its influence was shaped by what eighteenth-century Americans believed Magna Carta to signify.

www.loc.gov

Magna Carta exercised a strong influence both on the United States Constitution and on the constitutions of the various states. However, its influence was shaped by what eighteenth-century Americans believed Magna Carta to signify. Magna Carta was widely held to be the people’s reassertion of rights against an oppressive ruler, a legacy that captured American distrust of concentrated political power. In part because of this tradition, most of the state constitutions included declarations of rights intended to guarantee individual citizens a list of protections and immunities from the state government. The United States also adopted the Bill of Rights, in part, due to this political conviction.

Both the state declarations of rights and the United States Bill of Rights incorporated several guarantees that were understood at the time of their ratification to descend from rights protected by Magna Carta. Among these are freedom from unlawful searches and seizures, a right to a speedy trial, a right to a jury trial in both a criminal and a civil case, and protection from loss of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.

Many broader American constitutional principles have their roots in an eighteenth-century understanding of Magna Carta, such as the theory of representative government, the idea of a supreme law, and judicial review.
————————
Due process, which is an important subject on this thread, also has origins in the Magna Carta.

Due Process of Law - Magna Carta: Muse and Mentor | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Due process of law is a constitutional guarantee that prevents governments from impacting citizens in an abusive way. In its modern form, due process includes both procedural standards that courts must uphold in order to protect peoples’ personal liberty and a range of liberty interests that...

www.loc.gov

Due process of law is a constitutional guarantee that prevents governments from impacting citizens in an abusive way. In its modern form, due process includes both procedural standards that courts must uphold in order to protect peoples’ personal liberty and a range of liberty interests that statutes and regulations must not infringe. It traces its origins to Chapter 39 of King John’s Magna Carta, which provides that no freeman will be seized, dispossessed of his property, or harmed except “by the law of the land,” an expression that referred to customary practices of the court. The phrase “due process of law” first appeared as a substitute for Magna Carta’s “the law of the land” in a 1354 statute of King Edward III that restated Magna Carta’s guarantee of the liberty of the subject.

The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the Constitution, which guarantee that no person shall “be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law,” incorporated the model of the rule of law that English and American lawyers associated most closely with Magna Carta for centuries. Under this model, strict adherence to regular procedure was the most important safeguard against tyranny. Over time, courts in the United States have ruled that due process also limits legislation and protects certain areas of individual liberty from regulation.
BBM

Thank you Lillibet for your knowledgeable and comprehensive post--- Perhaps some of us need to get reacquainted with our constitution and our rights and reflect upon what we are experiencing at this time in what is becoming a very dark period---

 

[Cedars]

I don’t think deportation is cruel. There are countries that jail illegal immigrants before deporting them. Illegal immigrants in the UK or detained while they wait to be deported or accepted into the country. They aren’t allowed free range until then.

Yet here we are, expecting the US to do something different. I wonder how many countries allow MS-13 gang members to roam unchecked. IMO MOO

Punishment for Illegally Entering Countries 2025

Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.

worldpopulationreview.com

However, the rules in those other countries weren't invented; and retroactively applied by presidential decree, virtually overnight.

It has taken decades for policy to be implemented in democratic countries, beginning with the 1951 UN Charter on Refugees.

IMO, as usual, the US has chosen to do it their way. They certainly don't ever want to learn anything from what other countries do!

I suspect the high tolerance for undocumented migrants has always been driven by employers wanting a convenient and widely-accepted system to get super cheap Mexican labour, so everyone else can get cheap food, cheap housing, cheap maids and gardeners, etc

I bet Ronald Reagan had undocumented Mexicans working for him in Hollywood, and that's why his immigration reform bill included a 'legalization' clause for existing immigrants.

https://www.npr.org/2010/07/04/128303672/a-reagan-legacy-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants

However, I want to point out a key quote from the article

"the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage."

So, basically, as long as there are no consequences for American employers who hire undocumented migrants, there will be a continous stream of migrants doing whatever they can to get in, to take those jobs.

But do Americans ever look for the real cause and slowly, democratically, build policies based on a consensus about reality - no, everything becomes an extreme of political posturing and therefore hot air...

ETA Reagan's bill was passed in 1986, almost 50 years ago! So it is deeply untrue to claim Biden has anything more to do with it, than any other president since that time.

JMO

 

[PrairieWind]

However, the rules in those other countries weren't invented; and retroactively applied by presidential decree, virtually overnight.

It has taken decades for policy to be implemented in democratic countries, beginning with the 1951 UN Charter on Refugees.

IMO, as usual, the US has chosen to do it their way. They certainly don't ever want to learn anything from what other countries do!

I suspect the high tolerance for undocumented migrants has always been driven by employers wanting a convenient and widely-accepted system to get super cheap Mexican labour, so everyone else can get cheap food, cheap housing, cheap maids and gardeners, etc

I bet Ronald Reagan had undocumented Mexicans working for him in Hollywood, and that's why his immigration reform bill included a 'legalization' clause for existing immigrants.

https://www.npr.org/2010/07/04/128303672/a-reagan-legacy-amnesty-for-illegal-immigrants

However, I want to point out a key quote from the article

"the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage."

So, basically, as long as there are no consequences for American employers who hire undocumented migrants, there will be a continous stream of migrants doing whatever they can to get in, to take those jobs.

But do Americans ever look for the real cause and slowly, democratically, build policies based on a consensus about reality - no, everything becomes an extreme of political posturing and therefore hot air...

ETA Reagan's bill was passed in 1986, almost 50 years ago! So it is deeply untrue to claim Biden has anything more to do with it, than any other president since that time.

JMO

Ok, but we can't just keep saying, "im just doing what the last guy did.:" We are no enforcing the law. I wish it was more targeted to employers but that political pressure isn't there, and both parties are to blame for that. But a company that routinely hires illegal labor must now know that their work force may not show up tomorrow. So those employers have to find legal workers to do the work.

For two generations we let the politicians play this game of back and forth; You need to stop the workers taking the jobs vs you need to stop demanding cheap labor, back and forth. Exploiting illegal workers is little more than slavery and has badly disrupted the wage structure in the nation. But the game is over. We can still have lots of immigrants and/or migrant labor, but it must be legal. For 20 years or more Congress couldn't do anything about this. Now they have to. In the meantime, yes your prices to get some things done are going to soar. But we should have never gotten used to paying people those tiny wages in the first place.

 

[SouthAussie]

I don’t think deportation is cruel.

Deportation isn't cruel. Deporting people directly to a mega-prison in El Salvadore is cruel.

I urge you to read about the conditions in that mega-prison.

Please don't ignore what these people are being sent to.

 

[Cedars]

Ok, but we can't just keep saying, "im just doing what the last guy did.:" We are no enforcing the law. I wish it was more targeted to employers but that political pressure isn't there, and both parties are to blame for that. But a company that routinely hires illegal labor must now know that their work force may not show up tomorrow. So those employers have to find legal workers to do the work.

For two generations we let the politicians play this game of back and forth; You need to stop the workers taking the jobs vs you need to stop demanding cheap labor, back and forth. Exploiting illegal workers is little more than slavery and has badly disrupted the wage structure in the nation. But the game is over. We can still have lots of immigrants and/or migrant labor, but it must be legal. For 20 years or more Congress couldn't do anything about this. Now they have to. In the meantime, yes your prices to get some things done are going to soar. But we should have never gotten used to paying people those tiny wages in the first place.

What surprises me with these ICE actions is there's no clarity around who they are targetting, what are their instructions, etc. It certainly makes it seem there are no rules to what they're doing ... so how can that lead to a rule-based system, where everyone knows the rules? It's just a continuation of the 'rules don't matter, you can game the rules' attitude.

So says a 'peace, order and good-government' Canadian who finds the thought of being forced to join such a free-for-all crazy country intolerable...

JMO

 

[Vern]

What surprises me with these ICE actions is there's no clarity around who they are targetting, what are their instructions, etc. It certainly makes it seem there are no rules to what they're doing ... so how can that lead to a rule-based system, where everyone knows the rules? It's just a continuation of the 'rules don't matter, you can game the rules' attitude.

So says a 'peace, order and good-government' Canadian who finds the thought of being forced to join such a free-for-all crazy country intolerable...

JMO

And to be clear:

What IS happening in the USofA is a clear violation of their own Constitution's 14th Amendment Rights to Due Process which the SCOTUS, long before Trump, ruled was applicable to "all people, regardless of citizenship".

Some people like to gaslight and ignore that fact. We should never let them lest we be complicit.

IMO.
-

 

[Vern]

There’s a right way to apply for immigration and asylum in many countries. In the UK, if you’re there illegally, you are detained, until a decision is made. You are not allowed to roam the country freely. It’s that way in many countries. imo

"Can" and "May" be detained does not equal "ARE detained".

They certainly 'can be' and 'may be' detained if they are determined to prove a threat ... as I stated.

Also key difference: Due Process

Immigration Enforcement

Information about Immigration Enforcement. Immigration Enforcement is part of the Home Office .

www.gov.uk

 

[Ladyotm]

"A group of House Democrats warned Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and Labor Secretary Lori Chavez-DeRemer in a letter Wednesday that President Donald Trump’s immigration policies could lead to health care worker shortages.

A 2024 report from LeadingAge, an organization representing nonprofit aging services providers, found that immigrants make up 31% of the home care workforce, 21% of the nursing assistant workforce, 21% of the residential care aide workforce and 30.3% of the nursing home housekeeping and maintenance workforce.

The letter has been signed by over 40 House Democrats ... also endorsed by several unions, including the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees and the Service Employees International Union."

House Democrats tell RFK Jr. Trump’s deportations could cause health care worker shortage

House Democrats warned in a new letter that President Donald Trump’s immigration policies could lead to direct care worker shortages.

www.usatoday.com

My daughter works with a nurse from Venezuela. The job helped her get papers to move here. Her husband and kids joined her. She was so scared a few weeks ago and kept her children home from school.
I don't know all the details of her presence here, only that it was supposedly legal. I referred them to an immigration agency in our capital. My daughter says of last weekend, she was still here and her children have returned to school.
The fear for so many people who are here legally and following the law, is real.

 

[Ladyotm]

i would also like to remind everyone living across the world, the link below is a big reason why many us citizens are and have been upset by illegal immigration policies over the past few years - the cost to us taxpayers. this is in addition to the serious violence inflicted by known/judged illegal ms-13 and tda gang-members. the cost to house them in cecot is far less than we would be facing if things had continued under biden-era immigration policies. i've snipped a quote regarding the fact that even those illegal immigrants who pay taxes cannot balance the overall fiscal burden to our country. also, there are many reasons why nearly every country - if not all -has laws and regulations regarding illegal entry/residence. imo, legal entry and continuing to abide by the laws of the usa is fine. illegal entry and failure to obey our laws isn't fine.

Loading…

www.congress.gov

The fiscal burden of illegal immigration is due to several factors. First, because illegal aliens usually havelow incomes, those who do pay taxes pay little, if anything. Second, illegal aliens incur significant coststo the taxpayer on a daily basis, because public services such as policing, K-12 education, emergencyservices, etc., are provided universally. Further, due to loose eligibility criteria – intentional or otherwise– many illegal aliens receive benefits from federal, state, and local jurisdictions, despite the fact thatthey have no legal status.


jmo

eta - freedom isn't free. there 'ain't no free' people, there's a cost paid by someone living now or gave their lives for freedom and the us constitution/laws. and, respect is earned. imo

This is a huge report and I admit, I only scanned a few pages. I'm just curious if there is any information on how much businesses save by employing immigrants? Especially those industries in which the majority of the workers are immigrants.

I believe there are lots of ways that our country can better spend money. I'm not an accountant so I won't dwell on it. But I will piggyback off what another person has commented on- rich people paying a smaller percentage of taxes than lower income folks. Taxpayer monies being spent to fly the president back and forth to Florida every week (if it's not work related, he should cover his own transportation) are just two examples of helping to fix the issue with budgets.

I can understand seeking a safer, better life for yourself and your family. I can't speak on anyone else's method, because I have not walked in their shoes, nor spent a day in their life.

 

[SouthAussie]

The US district judge Paula Xinis said that Donald Trump’s news conference with El Salvador’s president, Nayib Bukele, where the leaders joked that Kilmar Ábrego García would not be released, did not count as compliance.

The judge ultimately said she would require the administration to produce details under oath about its attempts to return Ábrego García to US soil in two weeks ....

The judge told Ábrego García’s lawyers to prepare by Wednesday their questions for the administration about what steps it had taken.

Judge rebukes Trump officials for not securing return of wrongly deported man

Administration will have to share under oath how it’s trying to get Kilmar Ábrego García back to US, says district judge

www.theguardian.com

 

[tarabull]

Judge orders Trump officials to testify about efforts to return wrongly deported man​

https://www.reuters.com/legal/judge-consider-trumps-compliance-with-order-over-wrongly-deported-man-2025-04-15/

 

[keek]

New England man, a US citizen, detained by border agents for hours, he says I am terrified that this happened. It is unthinkable until now.

 

[fred&edna]

New England man, a US citizen, detained by border agents for hours, he says I am terrified that this happened. It is unthinkable until now.

for those captivated by the headline, don't forget to read the last paragraph. i wouldn't be surprised if other news outlets won't even include it.

In a statement released Tuesday afternoon, CBP officials called Bachir Atallah's claims false.

"The traveler's accusations are blatantly false and sensationalized," the statement said. "CBP officers acted in accordance with established protocols. Upon arrival at the port of entry, the traveler was appropriately referred to secondary inspection – a routine, lawful process that occurs daily and can apply for any traveler."

jmo

 

[TheTeach]

for those captivated by the headline, don't forget to read the last paragraph. i wouldn't be surprised if other news outlets won't even include it.

In a statement released Tuesday afternoon, CBP officials called Bachir Atallah's claims false.

"The traveler's accusations are blatantly false and sensationalized," the statement said. "CBP officers acted in accordance with established protocols. Upon arrival at the port of entry, the traveler was appropriately referred to secondary inspection – a routine, lawful process that occurs daily and can apply for any traveler."

jmo

A secondary inspection... I wonder how long those inspections last.

 

[keek]

for those captivated by the headline, don't forget to read the last paragraph. i wouldn't be surprised if other news outlets won't even include it.

In a statement released Tuesday afternoon, CBP officials called Bachir Atallah's claims false.

"The traveler's accusations are blatantly false and sensationalized," the statement said. "CBP officers acted in accordance with established protocols. Upon arrival at the port of entry, the traveler was appropriately referred to secondary inspection – a routine, lawful process that occurs daily and can apply for any traveler."

jmo

Who do YOU believe, everyone else reading it? Why wouldn't other news outlets include the whole story? What are you trying to say? Seems clear, mind made up on this kind of situation that is happening. Ones thought upon reading go one way for some and the other way for a kind of prejudice automatically. IMO>

 

[Vern]

Given the clear tendency of this current administration to ignore the Constitution and the law, I have my doubts that CBP's blanket denial represents the true facts (that's what heppens when your administartion survives on it's lies).

I read the whole thing; I still believe him.

These places are camera'd ... let's have it. Let's see the proof of the 'story' either way. Show us.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Another lawyer reports receiving order to 'self-deport' from feds

After one Boston-based immigration attorney spoke out over the weekend about being ordered to "self-deport," despite being a U.S. citizen, another immigration attorney shared Monday that they received the same errant order.

www.yahoo.com

Another lawyer reports receiving order to 'self-deport' from feds​