Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #10

[Labrat]

I wonder if a person has to have all the definitions of a "sociopath" to be a "sociopath" or does only one trait classify a person as a "sociopath."

I know pathological liars, but they don't have any of the other traits.

I know people who "live on the edge" of life, of which, I did when I was younger and didn't care.

My brother had behavioral problems as a child and academic problems in school, but none of the other traits.

I know a lot of people with poor work ethics, but no other signs.

I think it's a matter of traits vs. disorder. Some people exhibit traits of a personality disorder, but you have to show maybe seven out of nine traits to be diagnosed with the disorder.

This is interesting-
http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

 

[i.b.nora]

He isn't going to be charged until tomorrow morning. Many people are speculating that he will be charged with murder but we can only wait and see. Any news reports tonight are pure speculation.

 

[nums24]

JVDS looking for 9 year sentence:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../90segundos/detalle.php?Catid=89&NewsId=35972

 

[impatientredhead]

I wonder if a person has to have all the definitions of a "sociopath" to be a "sociopath" or does only one trait classify a person as a "sociopath."

I know pathological liars, but they don't have any of the other traits.

I know people who "live on the edge" of life, of which, I did when I was younger and didn't care.

My brother had behavioral problems as a child and academic problems in school, but none of the other traits.

I know a lot of people with poor work ethics, but no other signs.

Sociopath is actually the old term as far as diagnosis goes. It is now called Antisocial Personality Disorder. It requires display of behaviors by 15 and a pattern of at least three of the traits.
Diagnosis

[edit] DSM

The [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diagnostic_and_Statistical_Manual_of_Mental_Disorders"]Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders[/ame] fourth edition, DSM IV-TR = 301.7, a widely used manual for diagnosing [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_disorder"]mental disorders[/ame], defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and the rights of others occurring since the age of 15, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norms"]norms[/ame] with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deceit"]deceitfulness[/ame], as indicated by repeatedly [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie"]lying[/ame], use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impulsivity"]impulsivity[/ame] or failure to plan ahead;
4. [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irritability"]irritability[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggressiveness"]aggressiveness[/ame], as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remorse"]remorse[/ame], as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B) The individual is at least 18 years of age. C) There is evidence of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conduct_disorder"]Conduct disorder[/ame] with onset before age 15. D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia"]schizophrenia[/ame] or a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manic_episode"]manic episode[/ame].
Millon's subtypes

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_Millon"]Theodore Millon[/ame] identified five subtypes of antisocial.[9][10] Any individual antisocial may exhibit none, one or more than one of the following:

• covetous antisocial - variant of the pure pattern where individuals feel that life has not given them their due.

• reputation-defending antisocial - including [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_personality_disorder"]narcissistic[/ame] features

• risk-taking antisocial - including [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histrionic_personality_disorder"]histrionic[/ame] features

• nomadic antisocial - including [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder"]schizoid[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avoidant_personality_disorder"]avoidant[/ame] features

• malevolent antisocial - including [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadistic_personality_disorder"]sadistic[/ame], [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoid_personality_disorder"]paranoid[/ame] features.

 

[Patty G]

I think it's a matter of traits vs. disorder. Some people exhibit traits of a personality disorder, but you have to show maybe seven out of nine traits to be diagnosed with the disorder.

This is interesting-
http://www.minddisorders.com/Flu-Inv/Hare-Psychopathy-Checklist.html

Phew, that is good to know. At least now when the TV guests talk about someone being a "sociopath" I'll check the list for at least 7 of them.

 

[georger]

The sociopath I was involved with had been babied and coddled for many years by his parents. I think that's where the sense of entitlement comes from. They can't understand why everyone doesn't give them everything, after all mommy and daddy do.

Thats a good summary. It leaves the victim completely uskilled and
untempered to deal with normal life struggles. Joran probably has been
terrified every minute of his life - imagine the anger and reactiveness.
Im not explaining what he did away, just what makes him tick. Joran shows his symptomology like an open book, and I wish that Nancy
Disgrace would do something about her 'symptomology'!

 

[Patty G]

Sociopath is actually the old term as far as diagnosis goes. It is now called Antisocial Personality Disorder. It requires display of behaviors by 15 and a pattern of at least three of the traits.
Diagnosis

[edit] DSM

The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders fourth edition, DSM IV-TR = 301.7, a widely used manual for diagnosing mental disorders, defines antisocial personality disorder (in Axis II Cluster B) as:[1]
A) There is a pervasive pattern of disregard for and the rights of others occurring since the age of 15, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:

1. failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
2. deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
3. impulsivity or failure to plan ahead;
4. irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
5. reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
6. consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
7. lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

B) The individual is at least 18 years of age. C) There is evidence of Conduct disorder with onset before age 15. D) The occurrence of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or a manic episode.
Millon's subtypes

Theodore Millon identified five subtypes of antisocial.[9][10] Any individual antisocial may exhibit none, one or more than one of the following:

• covetous antisocial - variant of the pure pattern where individuals feel that life has not given them their due.

• reputation-defending antisocial - including narcissistic features

• risk-taking antisocial - including histrionic features

• nomadic antisocial - including schizoid, avoidant features

• malevolent antisocial - including sadistic, paranoid features.

I have to read this after I get some rest. Thank you so much for all the effort in putting this together.

 

[mahmoo]

JVDS looking for 9 year sentence:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../90segundos/detalle.php?Catid=89&NewsId=35972

Wow!!! Surely not.....for murder???

 

[suzihawk]

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...cord-straight-joran-van-der-sloot-and-the-fbi

This article explains the FBI issue very well.

Thank you. That's an excellent article and explanation. And I'm not disputing that that's exactly how it works and came down.

However, when the US Attorney gave the presser on 6/3, the spokesperson (Joyce?) stressed quite strongly at least twice that this had 'absolutely nothing to do with the events happening in Peru'.

Now, I guess this is technically true, but it makes them look a little... foolish, at the least, and perhaps a little shady by attempting to distance themselves (cover their butts). And then they didn't unseal the affidavit until today - after people were asking for heads to roll, which makes them look even worse, IMO.

I think they would have preferred (and attempted) to keep the whole thing quiet. Perhaps because of the backlash they've received. Instead they made themselves look worse.

I smelled a rat from the get go when they were being so secretive and tying so desparately to distance themselves, but I didn't know why. Now I do.

:twocents:

 

[Unreals]

About the whole "extortion" thing- how could either Joran or the Holloways trust the other in such a scheme? Would Joran really have been clueless enough to think that his arch enemy, who publicly suspected him of causing her daughter's death over and over again, was going to pay him $250,000? Did he really think they had that kind of money? As for Beth, how could she have thought this habitual liar was going to finally tell her where the body was? That's why, it had to originate on the Twitty/Holloway side- that's the way stings always work.

Again, I find the timing most peculiar. The payoff of $15,000 (or was it $10,000- again, conflicting accounts) allegedly took place on May 10. Even some mainstream "journalists" have questioned the obvious oddity of the FBI not busting Joran on the spot, as they invariably do in normal stings. At any rate, almost immediately after this, Joran decides, inexplicably in my view, to go to Peru. Why Peru? What was the attraction there? If he had a lot of cash suddenly, aren't there many far more attractive places to go gamble than this small Third World nation?

I admit I don't know all the nuances in such a conspiracy, but I simply can't accept all these "coincidences." I think that's why so many conspiracies are successful; people are trained, by their teachers, politicians and media, to instantly dismiss such notions. And, by their nature, there are secrets associated with them that none of us, even those most receptive to such theories, can easily surmise.

 

[georger]

Venting now - thank you for reading.......Catching up - and I skip a lot of pages just getting to the latest, but now in MOHO - I really don't think at this point we will ever know what really happened to Natalie. ....

I hope you are wrong but odds are on your side. I sure wouldnt hold out
anything coming from Vander Sloot. Its his MATES something might
come from and THAT is where pressure needs to be applied. I think Joran
is a bragger and had mates with him when Natalie died so it is his MATES
where you would want to focus ... I wonder if they have left Aruba?

 

[mahmoo]

I wonder what percentage of the U.S. population (or any country) is familiar with the symptoms of a psychopath? We, that follow crimes fervently, are acutely aware of the traits. I tend to believe that families that do begin to witness "odd" behaviors from a family member don't necessarily quickly recognize the symptoms as a possible psychological problem. I think most families linger in that "denial stage" until an unfortunate incident does finally take place that makes their loved ones mental state difficult to ignore.

 

[nums24]

Joran van der Sloot simulated as an excuse not to have keys to the room where killed Stephany Flores

New Hotel Video:

http://translate.google.com/transla...r-llaves-cuarto-donde-asesino-stephany-flores

 

[FLNY]

from reading other articles, JVDS had a public defender present, but did not approve.

Here is another article I just found revealing motive:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../90segundos/detalle.php?Catid=89&NewsId=35972

This article mentions that at some point Stefanie lays her head on the chair in the casino.

Here is a link with two still shots taken from the video. The second, time stamped at 04:26, shows her with a pillow under her head. This frame is not included on the casino videos that have been previously posted on this thread.

http://www.fotoglif.com/f/vqrs7ta9jx67/x2n6rrykaxko

 

[RR0004]

I think you have to have all the traits. For me, the main thing is the sense of entitlement and not feeling compassion or empathy for others, and being oblivious to the suffering they bring into others lives.

Most people think of sociopaths as someone like Scott Peterson, but most sociopaths never kill anyone. But they sure bring a lot of emotional pain.

I thought this was a good article on sociopaths:

http://www.youmeworks.com/sociopaths.html

...lack of conscience.

 

[cat thief]

http://clintvanzandt.newsvine.com/_...cord-straight-joran-van-der-sloot-and-the-fbi

This article explains the FBI issue very well.

This is a must read it answers all the questions concerning the sting and exposes all the misinformation being spewed by the misinformed.

Not to mention it makes perfect sense.

 

[seagull65]

Thank you newone, I was able to find that article...the problem is that is the only one reporting it...I need to see mainstream reporting for me to believe, lol! (heck, even then I'll question something!):blushing:

ps. I think I may be a sociopath after reading Patty's description:crazy::crazy::crazy: well the need for stimulation and the moving around alot without a realistic plan fits me at this moment in my life, so I guess I am a partal sociopath, lol!

the overriding thing about a psychopath though is that they don't have empathy, no respect or concern for the rights of others. They will trample over others to get what they want, they are calculated users of other people.

many normal people have a need for stimulation and have restless periods of their life.

And there are other personality disorders where people crave stimulation. Not just psychopaths.

Then there are many mental illnesses where people are truly insane and have periods where they don't know what they're doing or can't control themselves, and medical conditions that can render people unaware of what they're doing or unable to control themselves. People can have brain injuries that impair their self control. Etc. Lots of possibilities (with a person who might have committed a murder)

p.s. definitions of "personality disorders" are so subjective and cultural too. Some rich people live parasitically off of their parents their whole life and go around the world enjoying whatever stimulation they can buy but are considered respectable. Some people would never consider their own spoiled rich children to be parasites, but would call a poor person who stole to buy food a "parasite".

 

[RR0004]

Joran van der Sloot simulated as an excuse not to have keys to the room where killed Stephany Flores

New Hotel Video:

http://translate.google.com/transla...r-llaves-cuarto-donde-asesino-stephany-flores

Wow...so we know he changed prior to getting coffee...and not again...interesting that he actually asked someone to let him back in. This guy is so cooked.

 

[Labrat]

Joran van der Sloot simulated as an excuse not to have keys to the room where killed Stephany Flores

New Hotel Video:

http://translate.google.com/transla...r-llaves-cuarto-donde-asesino-stephany-flores

Wow- what is this?! Was he going to pretend someone killed her when he went out to get coffee? I wonder if he thought the hotel guy would go into the room?

 

[MaraSleuth]

Joran van der Sloot simulated as an excuse not to have keys to the room where killed Stephany Flores

New Hotel Video:

http://translate.google.com/transla...r-llaves-cuarto-donde-asesino-stephany-flores

OMG!!! I am speechless.