Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #19

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  • #901
In the crime scene pics it does look like one of her eyes in bulging out of the socket (sorry graphic), but not hanging. As per, NG has exaggerated for dramatic effect.

Stephany's brother described her injuries as "She had no eye." I initially took this to mean she had been beaten about the face & her eye was swollen shut.

NG has gone from the eye was outside the socket to the eye was dangling.
I find this presumed assumption careless reporting.
 
  • #902
Stephany's brother described her injuries as "She had no eye." I initially took this to mean she had been beaten about the face & her eye was swollen shut.

NG has gone from the eye was outside the socket to the eye was dangling.
I find this presumed assumption careless reporting.

yeah... I really hope that she will quit with the dramatic's .. It has gotten to the point that my 11 year old repeated it to me...and I had to turn it off, and watch the rerun later on...:snooty:
 
  • #903
yeah... I really hope that she will quit with the dramatic's .. It has gotten to the point that my 11 year old repeated it to me...and I had to turn it off, and watch the rerun later on...:snooty:

ITA! What is the point of CNN having a crime show if all she does is misreport and exaggerate information, whip up the audience with her histrionics, and cut off her invited guests just as they're about to say something interesting?

What on earth is the point of that?...but that is for another forum.

I'm posting a pic of the NG autopsy pic....take it with a grain of salt if you like...its been established, she's not a reliable source. In the meantime I will look for a better one.
 

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  • #904
Once again NG is exaggerating. The shoes are not drenched ... in blood
but spattered with large drops on the tops and at least one side ...
were her shoes on at the time? attached - (the photos are very poor)

thanx for the reminder of the shoes - so, jvds says that she tried to escape...she was found in a shirt and underwear... didnt he say that he took her pants off after because he was going to try and take her out of the hotel in his luggage? it appears that there are large drops of blood on both of her shoes - causing me to think that she probably was wearing her shoes at the time that the blood dripped onto them(cant wait to hear from the blood spatter expert) but anyway - i doubt that she would have had her shoes on with only a shirt and underwear - so, i tend to believe that the pants & shoes were removed after the fact and lending more support to the idea that this was NOT an attempted sexual encounter gone bad. after reading the rules of "texas hold'em poker" that one of our awesome members posted yesterday and seeing the video of jvds & sf playing poker and the dealer taking jvds's chips and giving them to sf.... im thinking this was prolly the beginning of the end in this situation.... all of this is jmho :)
 
  • #905
It's ironic, but in viewing the video link you posted, I noticed another video available on that webpage which shows JVDS going for DNA testing in Aruba...a topic that had just been debated on this thread earlier today!!!

http://www.bing.com/videos/watch/video/dna-testing-for-aruba-suspects/6kiz69s

Wow. Great find FLNY. Yes, I learned something new. Guess they took their DNA to match against the tape found that day. In the US I thought they had to be charged with a felon, but I guess that is only for the mandatory collection part now. Seems they would have to do that just to solve a case or for a forensic match. Makes sense. Duh. Couldn't they have just sent his DNA to Peru or maybe they want to be sure. Ha. Yep, I'd rather the Peruivan Forensic Lab do the testing.

Thanks again.
 
  • #906
At this point, because of all the changing details about the crime scene (and I don't attribute that, for the most part, to translation issues- for instance, Mark Fuhrman reported a few weeks back that there was not a lot of blood at the scene, and he got the details directly from the medical examiner, but now we're told again that blood was everywhere), I distrust everything coming from official Peruvian sources.

So, while you cite the fact Stephany's blood is supposedly on Joran's shirt, I counter with the previous "fact" that Joran was supposedly found with his bloody clothes on him (not wearing them- in his bag?) I also counter the "fact" that Joran strangled Stephany with his own shirt with the previous "facts" that the murder weapon was a baseball bat, tennis racket or professional karate chop which broke her neck. All of these "facts" were not lost in translation, they came from the medical examiner or the chief of the investigation in Peru.

The armed robbers are from Joran's alleged story to the Chilean authorities, who are hardly any more credible than Peru's. Bottom line- I have never thought Joran willingly confessed, so I'm not concerned about any of the ridiculous details in that "confession."

I readily admit that Joran is hard to defend and his own worst enemy. In fact, I think that's the reason why so many people on this forum, and in the country in general, are ignoring all the glaring inconsistencies and illogical nature of the "evidence" against him. He has been thoroughly demonized for years by the American press, and unfortunately has never done very much to rehabilitate his image. Thus, there is a predisposed yearning on the part of the public to see him punished for something.

Terms such a 'a lot' and 'everywhere' are not quanitive and are subjective. What may seem to be 'a lot' or 'everywhere' to one person, may not be to another.

It's quite possible that a small amount of blood was also on the shirt he was wearing when they found him (in addition to the one found at the scene ) since blood was 'everywhere'.

Would you please link to where the medical examiner reports mentions a baseball bat or tennis racket? I remember these items being reported very early by the (very eager) media, but I don't recall seeing them in the medical examiner's report.

Punished for 'something'? Wow. I don't know how the brutal and gruesome beating to death of a beautiful young woman can be described in such a casual term.
 
  • #907
Paragraph 1. Joran stated he did try and clean up, so I imagine "all the blood" was discovered by the use of luminol, which is what has been noted. I trust Peruvian official sources more than Aruban sources. They have no need to lie.

Paragraph 2. Those sources are from the media who may have misunderstood phrases, etc when interviewing officials.

Paragraph 3. I do believe Joran confessed without co-ersion; it's his style and he has had practice. Just that there's no one in Peru that will 'lose' evidence. Plus he grew up around lawyers and he has shown us before how he can manuever the system to his advantage. He's trying the same thing in Peru. He supposedly asked to confess and was told not to but went ahead anyway to the Chileans. He knows what he is doing!

Paragraph 4. He could ave stopped all that in the very beginning by telling the truth. He didn't. American media and Beth would have left him alone if he had told the truths in the first place. He chose to lie and lie and lie again and again. He did it to himself. Anita in her interviews throws that out too. What insanity! It really seems to me that Joran and Anita are very similar.


I totally agree with your entire post, with one minor exception.

He *thinks* he knows what he's doing. ;)
 
  • #908
Terms such a 'a lot' and 'everywhere' are not quanitive and are subjective. What may seem to be 'a lot' or 'everywhere' to one person, may not be to another.

It's quite possible that a small amount of blood was also on the shirt he was wearing when they found him (in addition to the one found at the scene ) since blood was 'everywhere'.

Would you please link to where the medical examiner reports mentions a baseball bat or tennis racket? I remember these items being reported very early by the (very eager) media, but I don't recall seeing them in the medical examiner's report.

Punished for 'something'? Wow. I don't know how the brutal and gruesome beating to death of a beautiful young woman can be described in such a casual term.

i agree, and to add to the "everywhere" term... i have seen on various forensic documentaries that to the human eye alone blood may NOT appear to be "everywhere" which is why luminol can and is so very important because it will show ALL traces of blood - which im sure can look to be "everywhere" especially if a murderer has attempted a clean up job...moo
 
  • #909
the only connection that i see that makes any sense at all between nh and sf is in jvds warped mind. no disrespect intended - i just do not believe that hundreds if not thousands of people would be on board to frame jvds. its just not believable. it would require so many people to be involved and also all of these people would never ever talk about this conspiracy to anyone?? that in its self is not realistic! i appreciate the difference of opinion tho :)

eta: in my opinion i dont think that the photos that i have seen of the room looked that bloody(at least not compared to photos of other crime scenes that i have seen) it looks like she bled heavily from the injury to the nose which looked mostly absorbed by the white shirt, and the drips on the shoes and a small bit on her pants. and the reports of his clothes have her blood on them - which sounds reasonable given the fact that he caused her injuries, and im sure more traces around the room from normal movement around the room after whatever struggle occurred after the elbow to the nose and then him going in and out, etc. most of these talking heads on tv are all about he ratings... to try and substantiate a conspiracy with anything they say i think may be a mistake...moo
 
  • #910
With all due respect, I think a lot of people are glossing over what are terribly important issues here. The crime scene is the most basic part of any murder investigation. It is not normal for so many simple, yet crucial details of a murder scene to change as much as they have in this case.

A medical examiner should know whether there was a lot of blood or not at the crime scene. There should be an early consensus, in any investigation, about the position of the body and what the body was clothed in. After a few weeks, there should be no questions as to whether or not a murder weapon was found in a very small room. If the thoroughly demonized primary suspect's shirt was actually found wrapped around the victim's neck, then it would have been blasted as "bombshell- breaking news!" night after night on Nancy Grace, JVM, etc. There were so many leaks in this case, but for weeks no one leaked the sensational (and vitally important) detail that Joran's shirt was used to strangle Stephany?

Every case has mistakes, early misreporting, etc. No one expects the authorities in Peru to be perfect. However, in this case there have no consistencies whatsoever, about any aspect of this investigation at all, other than the seemingly undeniable fact that Joran did leave the hotel Sunday morning. When you combine all these sloppy errors in reporting on the crime scene, if they were errors, with the horrible reputation of the Peruvian police and justice system, then I can't see how anyone interested in justice can trust any of the "facts" being reported.

Again... would you kindly link us to the medical examiner's report? TIA
 
  • #911
If this was all deliberate HOW did he plan on getting away?

Does he actually think he has some kind of immunity-protection?

I keep feeling he didn't plan on killing her, but whatever his plans were (and I do think he had one) something went terribly wrong. Whatever it was, maybe he stuck his toe in the water to get one thing, money, sex, etc, and she just said I don't think so and he raged. She had no idea who she was in the room with. Knowing the way he disrespected and taunted BH, he is one cold, scary 6'3" 🤬🤬🤬. I shiver to think how scared Stephany must have been when his mask came off.

Sorry, mamma VDS, but a real human being does not treat others the way your monster has. You were even too afraid to lock your closet door....you had to lock him out of the house---to come out after dark and prey on young girls. How sad. I don't think I'll ever forget the smirk on his face when he took the room key....ever. He's where he belongs.....except maybe in a zoo behind bars with his mates (lions), then again, he's not a Daniel. Pfffst.
 
  • #912
It's complicated, and since it involves the Holloway case (which we're supposed to keep on that thread), I won't go into details. But yes, obviously those who feel Joran was framed in Peru would have to connect that to what happened in Aruba. What other reason would there be to frame him?

I believe we're allowed to discuss the Holloway case as it relates to the current case. The two are deeply entwined. So feel free to speculate.
 
  • #913
ITA! What is the point of CNN having a crime show if all she does is misreport and exaggerate information, whip up the audience with her histrionics, and cut off her invited guests just as they're about to say something interesting?

What on earth is the point of that?...but that is for another forum.

I'm posting a pic of the NG autopsy pic....take it with a grain of salt if you like...its been established, she's not a reliable source. In the meantime I will look for a better one.

The autopsy photo is from the "police report" that Jean C presented on air a couple of weeks ago; this is not one of Nancy's "mock" drawings.
 
  • #914
Once again NG is exaggerating. The shoes are not drenched ... in blood
but spattered with large drops on the tops and at least one side ...
were her shoes on at the time? attached - (the photos are very poor)

NG said SF was not wearing the shoes at the time of her death....how would she know that?
 
  • #915
Has anyone even seen the ''tennis racket''?
- another media myth

The tennis racket was tested for blood etc., and Jean C reported two weeks ago that there was no evidence on the tennis racket. So the initial reports of a baseball bat or tennis racket being used was misreported (all BS). :crazy:
 
  • #916
NG said SF was not wearing the shoes at the time of her death....how would she know that?

I think NG is just speculating that her shoes were off, however I haven't read or heard via Jean C's reports indicating her shoes were off at the time of her death.
 
  • #917
Yes, I am still gathering information. I certainly haven't abandoned hope.

Again, all I can do is speculate, based upon the "facts" as they are presented to me. Because of my long investigation into the Holloway case, I'm not analyzing the murder of Stephany in isolation. I think it's connected, in some way, to Natalee's disappearance.

I wouldn't call Stephany's death a "sacrifice," although curiously both her father and brother did. I do strongly suspect, however, that she wasn't murdered by Joran. The video tape from that security camera could provide conclusive proof, and I don't mean the snippets that have been released, which are obviously very incriminating towards Joran.

If that tape doesn't show Stephany leaving, or anyone else entering that room before her body was discovered, then I've been wrong about Joran and he deserves the punishment he receives. If, however, anyone else enters or leaves that room during the three days in question, Joran is innocent.


My boldings

When surfing the net I came across your comments here and elsewhere regarding your writing a book and your investigation into Natalee's case and must say that what you purport to be "facts" as presented to you is mere speculations, rumour mongering and mis-stating of "facts".

Police are not going to release to the public at large all of the security cam, there are too many hours on it. They would be in the police files.

Please don't misconstrue what Stephany's family said. I can understand what her father meant when he said that. I don't recall her brother saying it though.
 
  • #918
It's complicated, and since it involves the Holloway case (which we're supposed to keep on that thread), I won't go into details. But yes, obviously those who feel Joran was framed in Peru would have to connect that to what happened in Aruba. What other reason would there be to frame him?


Are you saying that someone close to Natalee murdered Stephany and framed Joran for it?
 
  • #919
My boldings

When surfing the net I came across your comments here and elsewhere regarding your writing a book and your investigation into Natalee's case and must say that what you purport to be "facts" as presented to you is mere speculations, rumour mongering and mis-stating of "facts".

Police are not going to release to the public at large all of the security cam, there are too many hours on it. They would be in the police files.

Please don't misconstrue what Stephany's family said. I can understand what her father meant when he said that. I don't recall her brother saying it though.

i agree, its my belief that her family/father is/was just trying to understand why such a horrible SENSELESS thing could happen to his daughter. for him to try and think of some good thing that could come out of such tragedy is NORMAL. thinking that its proof of him (sf father) being part of some conspiracy that ended with the death of his own daughter is in my opinion ABNORMAL. again, no disrespect intended, merely my humble opinion.
 
  • #920
Scroll down to the pencil drawing of Stephany. Her pants are lying on the floor just next to her. Her sneakers could be partially under the bed. They knerw each other a couple of days. Joran knew she was gay, and that she came from a wealthy/powerful family.

http://www.🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬.com/2010/06/jorans-stephany-flores-autopsy/

I think Stephany was ready for sleep wearing her top & underwear. Her shoes & clothes were on the floor beside her.

I believe Joran tossed her off the bed to the floor and had her pull her knees up to her chest and lie on her front side/chest. I believe Joran held her ankles together and tied her wrists together on her back. Bruises are seen on her chin, torso, knees, ankles, arms, I believe Joran attempted to rape or sodomize Stephany.

In this position, he used his shirt to strangle & suffocate her. This way he could not see her face. Her battered face caused all the blood on the beige shirt. In this position, Stephany after death would roll over just as the pencil sketch shows.

I think he attempted to cover her with his shirt. JMO.
 
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