Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #13

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  • #741
Please........no more re poor Beth and jr....................I am choking on bile as I type................. :)

Why? Not to start something but what are the feelings involved here? (in a nutshell) I've not read their cases detail by detail but I feel they've been victims from what I know and certainly can understand their pain.
 
  • #742
Man, I would think twice about visiting anyone here.
These prisons are seething pits of disease. The most communicable being, tuberculosis. A prisoner can infect someone if they cough, sneeze, kiss, etc. a visitor. In Peru, there are outbreaks and pockets of drug resistant TB, that have been traced back to visitors to the prisons.
The causative agent is Mycobacterium tuberculosis. It can survive, even when surfaces are treated with disinfectants.
Visiting prisoners, up close and personal, is not a smart thing to do.

Perhaps they would advise Anita VDS, that she will also incur a personal risk, by being seen & photographed. Wish that she would see JVDS, via a closed circuit tv.

I read one account recently where a woman visitor there was raped by other inmates. But, obviously, this wouldn't have been in the high security area where Joren is.

MOO
 
  • #743
I'll probably get laughed out of town for repeating this rumor. But a friend who lives in and around BH, said that the companion was none other than Patsy Ramsey's (sp?) husband.

I can't even begin to say how odd, but at the same time, understandable, this union might be.

Beth gave an interview with him at least a year ago. I think they stated in the interview that they were seeing each other.
 
  • #744
Please........no more re poor Beth and jr....................I am choking on bile as I type................. :)

???? Poor Beth????
 
  • #745
Just comming out of LURK MODE long enuff to say hi to everyone and to thank all of you for the links and keeping me in the loop..

eta, ive got white candle lit for SF..

Im glad that Joran is in lock up..jmho
 
  • #746
I read one account recently where a woman visitor there was raped by other inmates. But, obviously, this wouldn't have been in the high security area where Joren is.

MOO

I read that too. I was thinking :waitasec:, how the heck did they get to her because I've never seen visits where visitors can mingle among the prisoners.*

I used to visit a prison in Thailand. The common visitor's area had a rail where the visitors line up, then a moat in between. When the prisoners came out they tried to take the stall/place across from the person, with the moat and rail and bars in front of the prisoners, who came to visit them. Everyone shouted over everyone else - very difficult and nothing personal could be exchanged whatsoever. There was a private room called the Lawyer's room where, with a special pass, one could sit on a chair in front of a stall where the prisoner would appear and sit in a chair on the other side of the bars. There you'd be face to face and it was quiet in the room with a big fan turning to cool the air.

*Adding - one time at Christmas we were allowed in to visit. My husband accompanied me. We brought some Americans McDonalds. We were in a line to enter when an undiapered Thai baby pee'd on my leg. The mother was laughing but the Thai guards saw what had happened and let my husband and I inside the courtyard. To this day, my husband loves to tell that story as he knew I kept trying to shift my position knowing what might happen at any minute. It was as if the little boy was aimed at me or something and we were jammed in a tight line. It was funny and we had something to talk about once inside. This is a perfect example of when to say 'mai pen rai' (even if you don't mean it!).
 
  • #747
I don't believe that story at all. I don't believe that Stephany hit him either. Lies, lies, and more lies.

It's so unlikely that Stephany hit/slapped him (or touched him at all), the statistical probability is in the infinity range. Imagine you have very limited physical strength (especially little upper body strength) as compared to the very imposing figure whom you are alone with in a hotel room and you learn that this imposing figure (that you are alone with) is the number one suspect in the killing of another young woman when they were alone...

Do you:
a) Hit him
b) Verbally admonish him
c) Or otherwise anger him in anyway whatsoever
d) Be as agreeable as possible to anything/everything he says and does while devising an excuse to get away from him as soon as possible (go yourself for coffee, go with him to get coffee, you need a refill, you forgot something in your Jeep, whatever).

That is, the whole scenario that she learned who he was with respect to NH is likely just the fiction that JVS thought up to support a story that she hit him which provoked (legally, "provocation") a reaction.

JVS is undoubtedly familiar with homicide law (because of NH & his father's legal experience), and any provocation (vs. premeditated or felony murder, e.g., theft plus homicide) will reduce a sentence by half (voluntary manslaughter) in the U.S. & the Netherlands. Involuntary Manslaughter would never work since there was intent to kill her (suffocation), so provocation was his only mitigating option when choosing a statement to give authorities once they weren't buying the two extortionists story.

As a side note, I believe that the fact that he looked up ocean currents is informative. JVS is not an independent thinker (reinvent the wheel if the wheel even if it works just fine type of guy). Imagine, again, that if you want to get rid of a body, and you have done that before--with such a high level of success that you can actually walk around admitting your involvement with impunity--you will seek to duplicate those highly successful results using the same method (because other methods are unproven, and might result in getting caught). That is, this was likely what happened to NH, IMO, and it is unlikely that JVS came up with that plan on his own. Someone who had read many forensic files/criminal cases (like an attorney, e.g.) could hatch that plan in a split second, however.

It's also interesting that the story he settled with after a while (and surely after counsel from PVS) was that when he heard she was missing, he "hoped" she hadn't tried to go swimming (after leaving her on the beach), and also that she had wanted to go see sharks swimming. I think that was alibi-laying for if and/or when her remains (requiem en pace) were found in the ocean.

On a final note, for anyone who might believe that AVS is an innocent victim, it is extremely unlikely that, IF PVS got up in the middle of the night, perhaps printed off ocean currents, went out of the house for a few hours, came home, placed his clothing & JVS's, shoe(s) & all in a disposable bag of some sort, showered, etc., that he did so without her knowledge and complicity.

Or, even if PVS was not involved, that JVS didn't admit the truth to PVS & AVS at some point in time, meaning AVS would have knowledge and after-the-fact complicity. She, not JVS, is the one most likely to come clean now that PVS & JVS are "out of the picture," and I would think that NH's family realizes this as well. This may be the reason for NH's trip to Aruba at this time.

And while she may have kept silent out of fear for her own safety while PVS and/or JVS were still around, what she does and says now (or in the near future) will be telling of who she really is at heart, independent of PVS & JVS.
 
  • #748
Somewhere in the past few days I know I have seen a diagram of his hotel room, a drawing showing where Stephany was laying on the floor and showing her pants laying on the floor not too far from the body. Patty G posted a diagram in the Media Links (#58), but this is not the one I saw. With the pants laying on the floor like that, it convinced me that this truly was an attempted rape. IMO she fought back and he killed her. Does anyone else remember seeing this diagram and know where it might be?

It is in the Media Links Thread.
 
  • #749
Jean C HLN, keeps reporting you see Joran going into the room with the coffee BUT actually Joran originally comes OUT of the room with the coffee before he goes into the room with the coffee. :crazy:
 
  • #750
while i agree with most of your post - i do not believe that it was an accident...when he saw that she was still breathing he decided to suffocate her with his shirt. that was a decision, not an accident. moo

I agree with you it was no accident. He told LE he thought about it. He beat her and even though she seemed half unconscious he then further choked her. After all that when he realized she was still breathing he then thought about it and pushed his shirt hard into her face until she stopped breathing. Then he thought his plan of escape through willfully so as to avoid apprehension by authorities.

That's the description of a non-accident.

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraaf.nl%2Fbinnenland%2F6944033%2F__Verklaring_Joran_van_der_Sloot__.html%3Fcid%3Drss&sl=auto&tl=en
English translation of Joran’s confession
 
  • #751
Jean C HLN, keeps reporting you see Joran going into the room with the coffee BUT actually Joran originally comes OUT of the room with the coffee before he goes into the room with the coffee. :crazy:

I know Patty it is nuts isn't it??? They should pay us to keep their reporting straight....you know like spell check but instead maybe us do an error check,LOL:dance:
 
  • #752
ETA :offtopic: Adding info only to answer members question.

Found this:

In 2006, she divorced Natalee's stepfather, Jug Twitty, and changed her name back to that of her former husband, Dave Holloway. In 2007, it was reported that Holloway was dating John Ramsey, the father of murdered child beauty queen JonBenét Ramsey.

http://www.mahalo.com/beth-holloway

Also heard about the JR initials being the person that went with Beth Easter weekend along with JQK and his wife when they met Joran. Also this came through my YT channel. :crazy:

I had read there was a relationship that linked the two tragedies, but for some stupid reason I was linking her romantically with JQK. [He is cuter, imo.]

Did anybody else who watched the Dateline special about Natalee over the weekend get the impression that JQK seemed almost sheepish about falling for Joran's latest confession? [It might not be the latest one. There have been so many it seems like. The one that convinced JQK to pay the $$$.]

I wonder what happened to the photos JQK took while in Aruba with Joran? I would have expected those to be shown during his Dateline appearance.
 
  • #753
I think it's likely he murdered her during an attempted rape. I think he planned to rob her. Greta said a few days ago he was broke, did nothing but gamble and beg people for money.
 
  • #754
I know Patty it is nuts isn't it??? They should pay us to keep their reporting straight....you know like spell check but instead maybe us do an error check,LOL:dance:

Well, since I recorded the segment, I added my commentary at the end of the video. I am getting so frustrated with the reporting.

None of the reporters seems to be able to talk about how the darn coffee got to the room and when. We heard about this trip to get the coffee, and the white shirt.

We now know, well maybe we know, that Joran used the white shirt to strangle Stephany as it had blood on it, so he surely didn't wear the white shirt when he went out for coffee.

IMO it still appears that Joran bought the coffee before he killed Stephany.

Where is the coffee video????
 
  • #755
I think it's likely he murdered her during an attempted rape. I think he planned to rob her. Greta said a few days ago he was broke, did nothing but gamble and beg people for money.

I don't doubt he attempted to rape her because we keep hearing that he had inquired to 'friends' for female companionship. He expressed he was unable to pick up girls easily (for his own desires obviously). So we know that was on his mind. Once she said she had her period and was not interested in his advances, he became enraged.
He is probably a sex addict too imo.
 
  • #756
I had read there was a relationship that linked the two tragedies, but for some stupid reason I was linking her romantically with JQK. [He is cuter, imo.]

Did anybody else who watched the Dateline special about Natalee over the weekend get the impression that JQK seemed almost sheepish about falling for Joran's latest confession? [It might not be the latest one. There have been so many it seems like. The one that convinced JQK to pay the $$$.]

I wonder what happened to the photos JQK took while in Aruba with Joran? I would have expected those to be shown during his Dateline appearance.

JQK stated on the Today Show on Friday, video in the Media thread, that Joran was "cold as ice" and "patholical" when he spent HOURS with Joran on 4/3/10 and 5/10/10
 
  • #757
Catching up on the last few pages...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/14/peru.murder.case/index.html?hpt=T1

Natalee Holloway's father seeks answers in Aruba
(AP) – 3 hours ago
ORANJESTAD, Aruba — Natalee Holloway's father is back in Aruba seeking answers about his daughter's disappearance.
A friend of Dave Holloway's says the grieving father is meeting Monday with Aruban prosecutors. He arrived Sunday and is hoping they will have new information now that suspect Joran van der Sloot is jailed for murder in Peru.
Tim Miller tells The Associated Press that he and other volunteers are ready to resume searching for Natalee if there are any new leads.
Holloway and Miller have made many previous trips to Aruba in search of clues about Natalee. The 21-year-old vanished in 2005 on the last night of a high-school graduation trip to the island. She was last seen leaving a bar with Van der Sloot.

Your link too me to a different article. This is the one I found re: Dave Holloway:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jCGR2VXXwy3griJWgDm7CYyYlmKAD9GB4CIO0

Can't find it now, but I read that Tim Miller is also in Aruba so maybe they've gotten some new information and are going to renew a search. I also heard it on Geraldo last night that he's in bad shape, just as he was in the beginning. I can understand how all this has brought the raw pain back to the surface. I pray they find some answers to give the family some sort of resolution.

SleuthyGal,

I'm wondering how the latest turn of events, has affected the K2, the Kalpoe brothers. Will they be forthcoming, before JVS has the opportunity to re-incrminate them, in his future stories.

The Kalpoe brothers are in this up to their necks, IMO. They're probably quaking in their boots afraid JVS is going to spill all.

I'll probably get laughed out of town for repeating this rumor. But a friend who lives in and around BH, said that the companion was none other than Patsy Ramsey's (sp?) husband.

I can't even begin to say how odd, but at the same time, understandable, this union might be.

I can understand too, if true. See how a tragedy such as this can take over one's life - it's like being in mental prison at all times. You would need somebody who would not get tired of hearing you talk about it and the victim over and over again I would think. That's why the 'closure' is important imo.

Geesh, no one would understand that better that JR (John?).

I don't find it at all unusual that Beth H. and John Ramsey formed a friendship that may or may not have developed into a relationship. I heard it that they met at an event that is common to their situation. I'm sure they found comfort in each other and they're both single and infamous for reasons neither of them ask for. I hope each of them can have some sort of a 'normal' life after what they've been through and if they've decided to be a 'couple', then more power to them. Just my personal opinion.
 
  • #758
Well, since I recorded the segment, I added my commentary at the end of the video. I am getting so frustrated with the reporting.

None of the reporters seems to be able to talk about how the darn coffee got to the room and when. We heard about this trip to get the coffee, and the white shirt.

We now know, well maybe we know, that Joran used the white shirt to strangle Stephany as it had blood on it, so he surely didn't wear the white shirt when he went out for coffee.

IMO it still appears that Joran bought the coffee before he killed Stephany.

Where is the coffee video????
Did you catch Jean C on HLN earlier saw she had watched that video over and over and then she said "we see Joran go IN the room with 2 coffee cups" - uhm - no we don't.

Does Jean C. had a more "complete" copy of this video? Did he just get back from getting the coffee, go in and come right back out? I think that's unlikely but who knows anymore.
 
  • #759
Not to perpetuate any false rumors if not true, but that is so weird because someone at work said that to me the other day and I had never heard that!

Yea, that's old news. Are they still together?
 
  • #760
snip

It's also interesting that the story he settled with after a while (and surely after counsel from PVS) was that when he heard she was missing, he "hoped" she hadn't tried to go swimming (after leaving her on the beach), and also that she had wanted to go see sharks swimming. I think that was alibi-laying for if and/or when her remains (requiem en pace) were found in the ocean.

snip

Yes, "wanted to see sharks" is certainly Joran's lie, but the snippet of truth is that is likely where she finally ended up. IMO.
 
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