Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #14

[Sanny]

Don't know about Life sentences but definitely NO DP.....that will be taken care of by
the inmates there.

His life isn't worth a peso....unless he has $$$$ to pay for protection.

 

[Sanny]

I wonder what the Kalpoes are thinking right about now......

 

[hollyblue]

The alcohol and drugs must have seriously compounded any brain damage that JVDS had to begin with.
The more I read about what he says, the lies, and everything, the less I understand him, and the more frightening he seems. He's really a monster.

Alcohol and certain drugs for JVS would have been like giving spanish fly to a sex offender. He had a definite anger manangement prob, and lord knows, you can't debate with a drunk, let alone argue with them.

Although, I partied hardy in my younger days, I quit going to bars and clubs when the date rape drugs became rampant. Scared me enough, and then learning of all the domestic violence that occurs...epecially with alcohol, I won't touch a drink with anyone anymore unless I really know them or know I won't be around them long enough for them to get plastered. I really don't know what I would tell a teen or young adult these days....How could you get them to get the point...we never listened either...just lucked out?

 

[BloodshotEye]

Hi BloodshotEye... the *only* question I have with regards to this theory is why would he take her to his room, the room that was registered in HIS name, to commit the crime? He could have done it in her car where it wouldn't point directly to him - at least at first. Taking her to his room just doesn't make sense to me.

If he has not killed anyone in the last 5 years, I'd bet my house that he has seriously messed up a few people. And he has always managed to slip away, and claim someone else must have done it. How quickly he resorted to that story. It is my belief, that he has used it before.
I speculate, that he thought taking SFlores' money would be much easier.

Let's say, perhaps he thought she would be dumb enough, to give him cash, and he would "trade" her his money "on account" in a couple of his on-line poker rooms. He'd put it in her name, and she could continue playing poker with it, at that on-line game room.

She wasn't going for it. And he became impatient and pissed. He had an agenda, and he was starting to rage, and got physical. S. Flores fought back. He was in full blown rage mode then; killed her.

His confession has layers of truth, in between fiction.
I believe that S.Flores did, indeed fight back. Maybe she did manage to hit him in the head, as JVDS stated. But I speculate that this was a result of her, trying to fight him off.

 

[rotterdam]

Greta: speaking with Joran's attorney Maximo Altez about the prison. He says the courthouse is inside the prison. He's talking about the three judges who will decide. Trial can be at least two years away. Motions can be filed but system is overcrowded. This prison is overcrowded. Only a few people in solitary confinement; Joran is in there because it is a high-profile case. Altez doesn't see a problem with Joran being in general population; he's a tough guy. He's also saying there is no tv in solitary. Joran can leave the cell 2-3 hours a day. Greta asking him if there's a toilet facility inside the cell; he says yes, everything there.

I just want to comment on the toilet facility. Many countries in the world use a squat toilet which looks like a hole in the ground. So Maximo is right. Joran should be used to it , since they are also common in Thailand. Of course modern international hotel chains do use the western style seating toilet.
Many countries with squat toilets do not use toilet paper either but clean their behind with water and can not comprehend how those funny westerners can clean good by rubbing paper around. Sorry if slightly O/T.

 

[epiphany]

The only thing VDS is getting in prison.....are 3 hots and a cot....but I doubt it's even 3 hots.

He's on a hunger strike and cautious about what's in the food they are giving him.

Can't say I can see any other options for him. Wonder if the "hit-man" might be able to eventually transfer/smuggle something useful to VDS. On NGS, someone said that VDS and another prisoner were now on speaking terms and engaging in conversation.

 

[Unreals]

Two years until the trial? I seriously doubt Joran will make it....

 

[suzihawk]

Anyone know the exact timeline VDS emailed Ludwig? On or around the 10th of May?

He must've been desperate when he didn't hear from his 'loyal' buddy and then contacted John Q Kelly for the money in return for the whereabouts of Natalee's remains.

I think it said 5/29. It must have been after JVS blew through all the extortion and Uri Geller money.

 

[Sanny]

Can't say I can see any other options for him. Wonder if the "hit-man" might be able to eventually transfer/smuggle something useful to VDS. On NGS, someone said that VDS and another prisoner were now on speaking terms and engaging in conversation.

Why is he anywhere near prisoners? I thought he was to be in solitary
for safety measures.....

 

[Cottages]

Although I am not educated in forensics or forensic psychology, I want to see if from what we know about JVDS (and other criminals on this board that have behaviors that appear to be from ASPD but have never been diagnosed with such that we know of...) it can give us some understanding of his actions.

FYI, there is rarely ever such thing as having a single personality disorder. More often than not, there are co-morbid personality disorders, although one PD might be considered the "primary" PD, with another PD being secondary (i.e. they meet 5 ASPD criteria and 3-4 NPD criteria). And of course, there's a lot of overlap in the criteria. NPDs & ASPD have no empathy to speak of (although they may "love" their mothers dearly and be completely distraught at their death; think Hitler). BPS's (borderlines) have very immature empathy. It's there, it's not a normal "depth" though, and even when it can be deeply felt, BPDs don't know what to do with it (or it may anger them if they were the source of your hurt, then you'd swear they had none at all). So a seeming lack of empathy, in and of itself, could be the result of several combinations (BPD w/ secondary ASPD or vice versa, or NPD with ASPD characteristics, etc.). Naturally then, even experts who examine the same person will disagree on an exact diagnosis.

Here's a link to someone's (a Peruvian psychiatrist or psychologist, perhaps, observations of JVS's personality traits):

http://www.larepublica.pe/sociedad/...t-ludopata-obseso-ironico-y-asesino-confeso-0

I don't know if it's been posted before or not (no time to check & see . One thing that stood out for me was the emotion dysregulation noted, which is classic BPD. More women are diagnosed w/ BPD because of this element (women are more emotional in general), and hence many professionals believe men are under-diagnosed w/ BPD, also because of this element i.e., they are less emotional in general (...and they believe they are under-diagnosed w/ BPD for other reasons...who ever is writing the book can go into that in the book perhaps . Note that JVS reportedly cried as he confessed, and has been crying in his cell. That seems to indicate, perhaps, that he's not 100% ASPD without any co-morbidities (although the tears in his cell were probably more for himself, they were still not the crocodile tears Bundy put on for the cameras). The emotional dysregulation in BPD, BTW, is "triggered" by events, unlike bi-polar which is usually not.

Gambling addiction is indicative of BPD as well, although most BPD's have multiple addictions (because they will become addicted to just about anything). Another indication that points away from pure ASPD was "news" (rumor?) that he was going to seek out therapy (or anger management). Pure narcissists and pure ASPD rarely, if ever, seek therapy on their own (but BPDs often do).

If JVS can be diagnosed as ASPD, he certainly would weigh in on the sociopathic side as opposed to the psychopathic side (impulsive crimes vs. carefully planned crimes, sometimes years in advance).

And, yes, most criminals are by-and-large made, not born, although genetics can play are role. One of the more interesting studies on this was a study of adopted kids (or families split up in some way...the usual type w/ nature/nurture studies) whose bio-dad were/were not criminals and whose adopted or step-dads were/were not criminals (perhaps someone can locate that study). Don't hold me to the numbers or exact details because it's been a few years since I read it, but it went something like this: If neither of X's dads were criminal, 3% of the boys became criminal (whatever the real percentage was, it was higher than the general population, attributed to the trauma of the change in caregivers). If X's bio-dad was a criminal, but the man who raised X was not was not, 8% of the boys became criminals. If in-home dad was a criminal & bio-dad was not, 19% of the boys became criminals. Where both bio-dad & in-home dad were criminals, 44% became criminals (but do note that still the majority of boys did not become criminals).

There were many variables not taken into account (violent crimes? crimes of deceit only? Amount of time bio-dad or even step-dad was around? Did they bravado or hide their crimes?), nonetheless, statistically the numbers were so remarkable that the fact that many variables were not controlled for is not terribly important (like if one drug/method had a 30% cure rate and another had a 75% cure rate, the fact that 10% of the 75% are vegetarians while only 2% of the 30% are vegetarians is moot with those kind of statistics, take the cure w/ the 75% cure rate, don't just become a vegetarian ;-).

There have been other studies, of course, and with respect to mental illnesses as well, that clearly indicate the predominate factor is nurture rather than nature, although please know that it can NEVER be said to be just one or the other. The forming of a human mind is an integration of many factors and extremely complex (which the studies also reveal). One trauma that was not purposeful (at a young age), might set one person in motion to mental illness while another can literally be abused to hell and back and not be so severely affected they can't recover (Unibomber on one hand, "A Boy Called It" on the other).

However, all of society knows that you can kick any basset hound pup enough times to make it rabid-mean, and you can love up a pit bull pup enough to make him happy-go lucky cuddle bug. That is, no matter their genetics, a primary caregiver(s) early in life can, and will (like it or not, intentional or not) create dispositions and tendencies by their interactions with a developing human brain (or animal brain).

But don't get me wrong, it's not the physical abuse that creates an angry dog or person (physical trauma heals). It is the underlying unpredictableness and neglect or punitiveness that does the physiological & psychological damage (i.e., a parent can have never hit a child and create a sociopath nonetheless). This is where Samenow ignores even common knowledge (as to criminal etiology, that is), but his work documenting the common thinking errors of criminals (and even addicts) has been reproduced in many studies time and again. Prison cognitive-behavioral therapies (what little there is...Hazelden prints the workbooks) are now based on his work in criminal thinking errors (the therapy of which has nothing to do with the etiology, fortunately).

Okay, definitely have to get off my soap box and get some things done now. How wonderful this group wants to know more, enough to go and buy books, and maybe even write some. For those who are really interested in the biology/physiology, or raising a child, I'd recommend "How Affection Shapes a Baby's Brain." It details the biology (or microbiology, rather, down to cortisol, serotonin, and other hormones/neurotransmitters) in very easy to understand terms. Every parent should be given a copy upon delivery of a child.

Just don't take what you learn about the making of a criminal and get all sappy & feeling sorry for the JVS's of the world, (who, yes, know right from wrong, but do not care enough to make getting help a priority). Before you know it, you'll be pen-paling (and marrying by proxy) some death row inmate ;-)....as a surprising number of European women do, apparently...yikes!

 

[Sanny]

I think it said 5/29. It must have been after JVS blew through all the extortion and Uri Geller money.

Lord....he blew through all that money?????

Ludwig said he was addicted to gambling....wow....I'm sure he eyed Stephany sitting at her 'lucky' 7 spot winning all that money.

What a creep.....the poor girl didn't have a prayer.

 

[LadyL]

I was just reading the disgusting comments on his facebook page and... POOF... it went private. LOL!! Could that mean he didn't feel his big television debut went as well as he thought it would?

darnit - I waited too long to get in

interestingly though, one of his friends is none other than OUR Levi Page!

 

[Sanny]

darnit - I waited too long to get in

interestingly though, one of his friends is none other than OUR Levi Page!

Well wouldn't you just know it......LP shows up at the strangest places.

 

[Sanny]

darnit - I waited too long to get in

interestingly though, one of his friends is none other than OUR Levi Page!

Not to worry......Ludwig's FB page will be fully investigated by the FBI....

now that they have the low down on him.....

Thanks, NG

 

[georger]

Ludwick... I can totally see how he's JVDS's BFF. Cocky little punk.

He smirked and laughed sarcastically through most of the interview.
Says Joran is an OK fellow. Knew him daily for several months gambling
each night at casino(s). More smirks - laughing. He didnt laugh when
Nancy told him to get ready for a subpoena (Sat there like a stoen smurf but didnt laugh). What good info did he convey? Nothing. Got his mug on
the screen and now will be served with a subpoena. What a moron! Hope
his parents are happy. Condescended to finally admit he didnt send Joran
any money as Joran asked for money in his birthday greeting to Ludwig, so the guy isnt totally stupid.

They call it the boob tube. We just saw one., His name is Ludvig!
Not to be confused with Beethoven! (or Chopin either!!)

 

[Sanny]

He smirked and laughed sarcastically through most of the interview.
Says Joran is an OK fellow. Knew him daily for several months gambling
each night at casino(s). More smirks - laughing. He didnt laugh when
Nancy told him to get ready for a subpoena (Sat there like a stoen smurf but didnt laugh). What good info did he convey? Nothing. Got his mug on
the screen and now will be served with a subpoena. What a moron! Hope
his parents are happy. Condescended to finally admit he didnt send Joran
any money as Joran asked for money in his birthday greeting to Ludwig, so the guy isnt totally stupid.

They call it the boob tube. We just saw one., His name is Ludvig!
Not to be confused with Beethoven! (or Chopin either!!)

I'm sure he's sorry he ever dialed NG's number......kickin himself now.

 

[Sanny]

He smirked and laughed sarcastically through most of the interview.
Says Joran is an OK fellow. Knew him daily for several months gambling
each night at casino(s). More smirks - laughing. He didnt laugh when
Nancy told him to get ready for a subpoena (Sat there like a stoen smurf but didnt laugh). What good info did he convey? Nothing. Got his mug on
the screen and now will be served with a subpoena. What a moron! Hope
his parents are happy. Condescended to finally admit he didnt send Joran
any money as Joran asked for money in his birthday greeting to Ludwig, so the guy isnt totally stupid.

They call it the boob tube. We just saw one., His name is Ludvig!
Not to be confused with Beethoven! (or Chopin either!!)

:woohoo::loser:

 

[rotterdam]

WAY too calm for Latin People, they are very expressive, emotional, and dramatic.
BUT this family may be very conservative, and religious. that may make a difference in how they are in public. not in privet.
MOO
PS: All my Latin frinds are dramatic.

Funny, most of the South Americans I have met, have been gracious. They do get emotional though at soccer matches .

 

[Sanny]

Okay, I stink at tech issues.. I tried to do a screen shot of the email exchange between Ludwick and JVDS from SM...but failed miserably...sorry! Any tips???

That's ok ZKitty.....you gave it your best shot.

 

[suzihawk]

If he has not killed anyone in the last 5 years, I'd bet my house that he has seriously messed up a few people. And he has always managed to slip away, and claim someone else must have done it. How quickly he resorted to that story. It is my belief, that he has used it before.
I speculate, that he thought taking SFlores' money would be much easier.

Let's say, perhaps he thought she would be dumb enough, to give him cash, and he would "trade" her his money "on account" in a couple of his on-line poker rooms. He'd put it in her name, and she could continue playing poker with it, at that on-line game room.

She wasn't going for it. And he became impatient and pissed. He had an agenda, and he was starting to rage, and got physical. S. Flores fought back. He was in full blown rage mode then; killed her.

His confession has layers of truth, in between fiction.
I believe that S.Flores did, indeed fight back. Maybe she did manage to hit him in the head, as JVDS stated. But I speculate that this was a result of her, trying to fight him off.

Thanks BloodshotEye. Makes sense. I can totally get on board with that. He probably thought he could seduce her out of her money with all his self professed charm. I just couldn't see him taking her to his room to outright rob or kill her, all the while practically leaving his calling card.

I'm outty for the night. :wave: