Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #16

[Kat]

I am not either but he looks so ODD

I still haven't caught up from being away from internet and TV (for the most part) for over a week. I'm still catching up though.

I agree he looks odd there. Here is something I had in mind though and I'm not as familiar with this video as others because I have only viewed it twice.

IMHO there might be something he is looking at down the hall. When we see him enter the room with Stephany he doesn't even glance down there (that we can see). Each time he exits the room he looks to that end of the hall (IIRC). We know there is a camera located between his room and the end of the hall because he even looks dead in the camera and FWIW IMHO appears to notice it for the first time.

I would really like to know why he always looks down at that end of the hall. We can see the other end and there appears to be other rooms and a large window. What's down there that he's watching for? (Maids closet?, A room with people that frequently enter and exit their room?, another set of elevators? etc...).

JMHO and curiosity

 

[Olive Oyl]

I'm sure you have already thought of this but he must have had some money to play at the casino because he was playing just hours before and right up until he left with Stephany. Also, how many drinks did he say he had consumed that night? I assume the casino was supplying those as he gambled.
All of this is JMO, but I believe Joran still had a little money left although no amount would ever be enough for him!

 

[Woe.be.gone]

He asked her that right at the end of the interview and she said no.

Thanks. I'll go back and listen as we had a huge, short storm go through here last night that coincided with 20/20. It was scary. I hit record in case I had to run to the basement. It amazed me that we didn't loose electricity - lucky this time.

 

[Bobarino]

[/B]
More than 99% chance that they would have fed him anyway (he had been there frequently -- casinos have 'loyalty' cards that players use to rack up points, cash back and free comps - including percs such as accommodation)

Thanks for your reply.

But first this is a different country, a much poorer country, with different customs as well. Then maybe they would want some type of bank acocunt info or something from him. And he was done to zilch.

But then there is whole 'nother matter. Didn't it come out that someone recognized him--near the end--and alarmingly told casino workers who he was and what he had done?

Is it possible that he had just been declared--or was about to be so--personna non grata at that time, in that casino?

Maybe even if the casino had not officially kicked him out, some worker got word to him that they now knew who he was and that that was going to happen soon?

 

[mck16]

Then people here are concluding that Joran did not run out of money, and/or that he could definitely have gotten free food at that particualr Lima casino?

What if he ran out of money to play, at that point? Even IF some food had been free up till then, would that have not changed if he could no longer bet?[/QUOTE]

He obviously had money on the video he was betting. I think he needed a high stake to play in the tournament that he had come to play in. Not sure what the ante is but I am sure it is quite high. jmo

 

[newone]

I'm sure you have already thought of this but he must have had some money to play at the casino because he was playing just hours before and right up until he left with Stephany. Also, how many drinks did he say he had consumed that night? I assume the casino was supplying those as he gambled.
All of this is JMO, but I believe Joran still had a little money left although no amount would ever be enough for him!

10 piscos

 

[rotterdam]

I guess a lawyer (I am not) would say the issue is --did she aid and abet?

But Peruvian law, I think is tronger. If you know something about a criminal act, and don't tell authorites about it right away, you can be arrested, is my understanding.

Can Anita be arrested if and when she lands on Peruvian soil?

Of course, if Joran just said he felt people were watching him and following him, but did not admit to killing Stephany, the matter appears moot.

Do not think so. Also Peruvian justice system mirrors the western European system(Napoleonic code). Testifying of parents against children or vice- versa is not allowed. I suspect that also applies in Peru. So AVDS can not be subpoenaed into a Peruvian court as a witness IMO.

 

[mck16]

Thanks. I'll go back and listen as we had a huge, short storm go through here last night that coincided with 20/20. It was scary. I hit record in case I had to run to the basement. It amazed me that we didn't loose electricity - lucky this time.

I heard about your storms on the news here. I am in the Dallas area and our CEO is in Chicago. So, I do have an interest there. We are used to those storms here. The young lady is so soft spoken but listen closely and you will hear her answer. ty

 

[panthera]

I'm sure you have already thought of this but he must have had some money to play at the casino because he was playing just hours before and right up until he left with Stephany. Also, how many drinks did he say he had consumed that night? I assume the casino was supplying those as he gambled.
All of this is JMO, but I believe Joran still had a little money left although no amount would ever be enough for him!

I agree, no amount would be enough. However I found it strange that his hotel room was only paid through the time when he actually left on the 30th and yet the poker tournament that he wanted to get into wasn't supposed to start for a couple of days, IIRC. Also, wouldn't there have been an entry fee for the tournament? I do think he was out of "available cash". MOO

 

[mck16]

I still haven't caught up from being away from internet and TV (for the most part) for over a week. I'm still catching up though.

I agree he looks odd there. Here is something I had in mind though and I'm not as familiar with this video as others because I have only viewed it twice.

IMHO there might be something he is looking at down the hall. When we see him enter the room with Stephany he doesn't even glance down there (that we can see). Each time he exits the room he looks to that end of the hall (IIRC). We know there is a camera located between his room and the end of the hall because he even looks dead in the camera and FWIW IMHO appears to notice it for the first time.

I would really like to know why he always looks down at that end of the hall. We can see the other end and there appears to be other rooms and a large window. What's down there that he's watching for? (Maids closet?, A room with people that frequently enter and exit their room?, another set of elevators? etc...).

JMHO and curiosity

After all that occurred in that room he is probably looking to see if anyone is there or to see if anyone is coming after him. I am sure he is scared and being cautious. jmo

 

[rotterdam]

If Joran's mother said he was fleeing to Chile to avoid being put into an institution (don't remember exact quote) I wonder what happened to warrant that. There must have been an incident in Aruba that we don't know about.
Does anyone know? tia

Correction: fled to Peru.

Not necessarily. She wanted him locked away (closed facility). It is possible that she wanted that for a long time but Paulus would not agree to that.

 

[Kat]

After all that occurred in that room he is probably looking to see if anyone is there or to see if anyone is coming after him. I am sure he is scared and being cautious. jmo

I agree mck16. I have to go back and have a look again but I don't see him look towards the end of the hall we see with the other doors and the large window. Did I miss that?

 

[Linda7NJ]

One thing I think appears almost definite now, yes?

I think we can totally lay to rest the notions that Stephany was brought to her room to be raped, or to celebrate some "anniversary".

Are we all in agreement now, that robbery was the motive. He not only didn't have money to fly out of there, he was running out of money to even eat.

Nope, I'm not convinced robbery was the motive. I think the money was just an added bonus. I think she simply pissed him off, said no to either sex or giving him money, and Joran doesn't like to hear, "no." He got angry, very angry and "went off."


If he planned to murder her to rob her, surely he could have thought of a better plan than doing it in his own hotel room.

 

[mck16]

Not necessarily. She wanted him locked away (closed facility). It is possible that she wanted that for a long time but Paulus would not agree to that.

Oh, I guess something happened that I did not know about. I thought she and Joran's father always proclaimed his innocence. I didn't realize the attitude toward Joran had changed. ty

 

[rotterdam]

Does anyone know why Stephany's last name is Ramirez? Is that a Spanish custom or has she been married? I know that supposedly she was a lesbian, but I have not heard any confirmation of that. I heard her x girl friend say that she was struggling with her sexuality. tia

Her mothers name. Spanish custom IIRC

 

[Kat]

Not necessarily. She wanted him locked away (closed facility). It is possible that she wanted that for a long time but Paulus would not agree to that.

Rotterdam can you tell me please whereabouts the information came that AVDS wanted JVDS locked away? I missed that one and not sure how far back to go to find it (if you could just give me a rough timeframe of which day it was posted I'll go back and find it TIA).

For the posters here that know Dutch law:

What is the process for having someone commited? How long can they be commited for? Etc?

Does Dutch law have what we in the USA call the Baker Act or 5150 (CA law code for involuntary commitment)?

TIA.

 

[panthera]

Nope, I'm not convinced robbery was the motive. I think the money was just an added bonus. I think she simply pissed him off, said no to either sex or giving him money, and Joran doesn't like to hear, "no." He got angry, very angry and "went off."


If he planned to murder her to rob her, surely he could have thought of a better plan than doing it in his own hotel room.

I don't think he planned to murder her when he took her to the hotel room, but likely to drug her so she wouldn't remember what happened and she would wake up without the money. MOO

 

[Woe.be.gone]

Exactly what I believe also. Too convienient that he was supposedly going to go to the Netherlands for psychiatric care, just two days after he suddenly left for South America. If this is at all true, and I'd like some verification of it, it could be to try to avoid prosecution for extortion and have nothing to do with an actual mental illness. Now it seems to fit in perfectly with an attempt to minimize his crime in Peru. MOO

Thus why he has named himself "psychopath".
In Thai they say, one is "baa-baa-ball-ball" (the sound a lamb makes X2 plus the sound 'bawl' X2) when one is crazy. Joran is 'baa-baa-ball-ball' but not mental imo.

 

[Eileen O'B]

Do not think so. Also Peruvian justice system mirrors the western European system(Napoleonic code). Testifying of parents against children or vice- versa is not allowed. I suspect that also applies in Peru. So AVDS can not be subpoenaed into a Peruvian court as a witness IMO.

There is No parent-child privilege in any state except in Idaho, Massachusetts and Minnesota.

http://www.abanet.org/genpractice/magazine/1997/fall-bos/birzon.html



"The Parent-Child Privilege. Only Idaho, Massachusetts, and Minnesota recognize a parent-child privilege. All other states but one in which the issue has arisen have uniformly rejected the contention that compelling a parent or child to testify against the other destroys the trust in such a relationship and encourages defiance of such efforts. It is generally said that legislative judgments should determine issues to judicially compel disclosure."

 

[Woe.be.gone]

They showed the barbells last night. Quite inventive.

But a good weapon to bash someone's head in. :waitasec: ?