Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #19

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  • #741
IMO in the very beginning of the NH case JVS was able to give great detail about the underwear that NH was wearing that night, Now IMO if you are in the backseat of a dark car, and then at a dark beach there is no way that you would be able to recall all of the detail of this garment, but if after you killed her you took them as a souvenir of you killing you would know exactly what they looked like...

Forward to the SF murder I think that JVS removed her pants in order to again take her underwear as a souvenir (sick if you ask me) but when he realized that it was her time of the month he no longer wanted to deal with them...Again this is just MO that would explain him removing her pants...

I also think that she had her shoes on and was in the upright position during this horrific crime and the blood dropped onto her shoes, I can tell you the forensics will show if the blood dropped from a distance of her height or if it was castoff from blood being slung around the shoes, but I still think they were on her and JVS removed them before he removed her pants.

Very good thoughts Kimmer thank you for sharing them! I also thought this when I read your thoughts on panties as being possible trophies.

WARNING A BIT GRAPHIC BELOW:

Another reason he may not have wanted those panties is she may have released her bowels when she died. Not all people do, but I recently read Grand Jury testimony given by an ME in another case.

He stated that you don't always see it, but when you do, it can often happen during the agonal phase of death, particularily when it's a painful death for the individual.

Sorry to be so graphic.
 
  • #742
With all due respect,IMHO the only reason she has not alluded
to the possibility that this was Stefanie's fault is because of
the info they have on camera.

If there were no video cameras,her and JVS would both be
screaming to go get the two guys who held them up and
robbed them.

JMHO :twocents:

Yes, it was just like a few of the guests on NG saying there may not be any evidence of JVS under her fingernails---since we can't seem to find any scratches or marks on him, but they found blood on the clothing he had in his belongings when fleeing. We'll see. That cut on his knuckle could very well be from her trying to tear his hands away from her neck and she gouged him a good one with her nail.
 
  • #743
I'm not sure if this has been discussed - the receptionist's statement. I have to wonder why she would knock on the door at midnight, regardless if he owed 2 days. Wouldn't a hotel wait until the morning? Now I'm glad they found Stephany, but it raises my hinky meter just a tad. Maybe because it's not a 5 star hotel (in which case probably would never do such a thing). Did he pay by credit card, and the hotel couldnt run it? Just more questions!

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...murdered-woman-joran-van-der-sloots-room-read

View attachment 9888

Best,

Mel

ETA the statement indicates Stephany was wearing a dark shirt, red underwear, and covered with a white sheet. Now I thought she was wearing the white shirt (at least in part). She doesn't mention the shirt at all??

Right, has it been mentioned yet why Stephany's nose would still be bleeding after 2-3 days in the hotel room. Not sure if this has been covered yet.
 
  • #744
NG Victoria Macchi saying skin was found under Stephany's nails; results not confirmed yet; head of homicide confirmed DNA found, however it could still take a few weeks for results. NG asking VM about J cleaning up the hotel room. She's saying he put in a lot of effort to clean up, but he cleaned up with sheets and bedspread which were left in the room. NG showing crime scene photos of Stephany's hands and feet and tennis shoes.

So we have to wait for the results still.
 
  • #745
I certainly do not condemn Anita for giving birth to Joran, a murderer. And I'm also aware of the terrible position she finds herself presently in. It's true, she's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't. That's why I don't understand why parents of the accused don't limit themselves to two comments.

1) I love my child and will not abandon him/her in their time of need.
2) No further comment

Although admittedly is easy to be an armchair psychologist, I'm critical of the way it appears that she turned a blind eye to early problems, especially being a teacher that should have been trained to pick up on such indicators, rather than dealing with them head on. I'm critical of her for instead of dealing with these problems, she took the 'out of sight, out of mind' approach and allowed him to live apart from the rest of the family and to come and go at his will. I'm critical of her for allowing him the funds by way of a very large amount of money on account with which to gamble and drink at the casino while he was under the legal age to do so. I'm critical of the way she blamed (and continues to blame) others for his problems, specifically Natalee and her family. And I'm critical of her trying to spin his current problems into a mental disorder, thus further not holding him responsible or making him be responsible for his own actions.

Aside from that, I'm not thoroughly convinced that she doesn't know more about what happened to Natalee than most seem to think.

Does anyone remember Mark Hacking's mother? She did none of this type thing. She stated that she loved her son. She was enormously apologetic for what her son did. She never denied or covered up or tried to spin it into anything more than it was. That's how one should handle it, IMO.

Thankyou for posting this! I agree with you 100% and I am sure that there are others here who also agree with what you have posted about AVDS.
I find Anitas statement about Joran sitting down with Stephanys family and telling them what happened to her very insulting to that poor young ladys family. Anita continues to turn a blind eye to the reality that her son is a murderer while indirectly suggesting that it was the victims fault. Anita and her husband placated Jorans every whim, especially when it was mentioned that Joran started gambling when he was young. She and her husband ( were) are enablers. Her suggestion/ spin to the public via media interviews, that Joran is BiPolar, is a strategic move to help her son. After all if he was found to be mentally unstable a lighter sentence could have been decided upon by the P courts, getting him away from the hellish prisons of Peru perhaps extraditing him back to Aruba to serve out his sentence in the country club prison in Aruba.
I think AVDS knows exactly how to play games with peoples emotions but this time the public isn't buying what she's dishing out and neither are they buying her sons lies anymore.
 
  • #746
So we have to wait for the results still.

Could be as long as 2-3 weeks, according to one of the reporters on Nancy Grace. I forgot her name.
IMO
 
  • #747
I agree Frogin. I also can't see her taking her pants off in a man's hotel room that she doesn't even know very well. Even though she's young and is of a very different culture and socio-economic status. I just don't think she would have done that. Just my :twocents:

I somewhat agree, but thinking she came from a coastal city, with a beach, the perception may have been a little more "open". I remember going to the shore and renting a house with both male and female friends. Everyone did not parade around in their undies, but we did in our jammies. Not too much difference in bra/panties and bikinis, bathing suits and boxers. Shoot I even remember a HS trip to Europe and one of the guys knocked on our door wearng his tighty whities just for a match. But I definitely agree, I wouldn't be running around in just my undies at that time...be too afraid of Ah OH's.
 
  • #748
I think that the most incriminating evidence is him coming out of the room and directly turning around and knocking on the door... (of course him and SF walking in the room and him leaving alone is the biggest).. That will be VERY hard to explain away.... Him setting up an alibi...
 
  • #749
Right, has it been mentioned yet why Stephany's nose would still be bleeding after 2-3 days in the hotel room. Not sure if this has been covered yet.

I think that's just a case of the staff member seeing the body with the massive trauma to the nose area and the surrounding blood and either thinking that it was still bleeding, or constructing what she had seen into a description she could handle.
 
  • #750
I kept thinking about why Joran's DNA is NOT in the system?
Jean C said that if they found SF had his DNA under her nails, his DNA would be entered.
Aruba should have done that. I know his wasn't really charged with any crime in Aruba, but still, they had him locked up awhile.
IMO

Isn't it that they have to be charged with a felon to get DNA? Even in US. ???
 
  • #751
I think they can and will do anything they want too.
They will get tried of Joran's games real quick.
IMO

Would seem they could dust for her fingerprints...unless he completely wiped it down... then there goes his saying she was on the computer and saw the msg. ??
 
  • #752
The issue about the camera was brought up on NG last night. It was just a hypothetical question posed to Micheal Griffith about what happens if the video surveillance is contaminated or edited and they can't find the tape from the two days after Joran left the hotel room. It was a brief part of the conversation and Michael Griffith just fluffed over and ignored it and went on about something else entirely. I don't even know why JC posed the question because the caller's question had nothing to do with that. The caller wanted to know if he was being video taped now in his jail cell at Castro Castro or during his conversations with his card playing buddy. Here's the part of the transcript in question...

JENNIFER, CALLER FROM WASHINGTON: Hi, yes, I had a comment first. I really hope that they`re taping this in jail right now because from the kind of person he seems to be he is probably bragging himself silly to the guy he`s playing cards with.

But my question is whether if this complaint of him not having a valid warrant when he was picked up in Chile, if that is ruled in his favor, will the evidence that they found such as his laptop and what he`s told be no -- poison the tree, so to speak, or will it still be eligible in court in the -- by Peruvian law?

CASAREZ: Really good question. Let`s go first out to Ron Shindel, former New York police deputy inspector.

He`s in Castro Castro right now, and I`ll tell you something, there`s a lot of guards around there. He is in solitary confinement, but if there`s one thing I learned about Peru, they have video cameras every where. On the streets, in the buildings, in the beauty shops, every where.

Do you think they`re recording him in his cell right now?

RON SHINDEL, FORMER NYPD DEPUTY INSPECTOR: Absolutely, Jean. They`re going to keep a close eye on this guy as possible. They`re going to use CCTV, they`re going to use surveillance in any way they can. They probably have a guard watching him, too, you know, 24/7.

This is their big case down there and they want to make sure it goes right. They`re going to keep their eyes on him, whether it`s through a camera or direct surveillance by an officer down there.

CASAREZ: To Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney, you have defended many cases here in Peru. Let`s look at the confession, let`s look at the video surveillance tape.

If there was corruption and even mistreatment of Joran Van Der Sloot during that interrogation, how do we know that the videotape surveillance, as the caller said, isn`t contaminated in some way?

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, they`re usually not contaminated. These are excuses that people give when they`re guilty. He can make a complaint under the 1963 --

CASAREZ: Well, what about if it`s edited? What about if it`s edited and they can`t find the other two days before her body was found?

GRIFFITH: Well, I mean, it could be, but to my experience I doubt it. What the family should be doing now is -- you`ve heard me say before, Jean, you know, I was in that prison in Turkey, Midnight Express, my client, Bill Hayes.

That`s the Ritz Carlton compared to Lurigancho where he`s going. I don`t think he`s going to survive Lurigancho. What the family should be doing now, having their lawyer go down or you can even do it, Jean.

Go to the embassy. Go and speak to the Department of Justice and ask them what they`re doing to put pressure on him to give up where Natalee Holloway`s body is. Because he can extradited back to the U.S.

But you know, by that point eight or nine years, we can`t have the family wait that long. They must press him as to where Natalee`s body is now because he may die in Lurigancho. They`ll never know.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1006/23/ng.01.html

Thanks! I knew I didn't completely imagine it.
 
  • #753
You know... as I said before, I don't really care if AVS or anyone else is giving money to his attorneys or where that money comes from -legally, that is. God knows his fees are going to be enormous. Receiving funds from licensing, interviews, etc. isn't illegal. I just don't understand the idea that they aren't *really* receiving money or profiting from these things because it's being sent directly to (or spent on) the attorney. :waitasec:

Exactly suzihawk.
 
  • #754
I can't shake the feeling of a lawsuit coming on against the Peru LE...
 
  • #755
Good idea. Do you think he took them off and then took off her pants before he sat on her chest and then proceeded to brutalize and beat her to death?

(note: I'm using graphic words for what he did to her, because what he did was brutal. I don't want to type, myself, it in a way that lessens what he did to Stephany, bless her heart).

Right, as stated before, JVDS was able to obtain her pin numbers for the ATM card. I think he tied her up with the bungie cord, slid off her shoes, probably removed her pants, and punched her in the face until she gave up her pin number then moved to the back of the chair and proceeded to choke her. He was planning on killing her but when he couldn't choke her successively, he took off his white shirt and smothered her. I think that's why we see some blood splatter on the shoes and the pants were taken off he hopes to scare her further. JVDS was hanging with this girl at the casino on one or more ocassions,I am pretty sure he knew she was gay. He was broke and desperate and SF was winning big. IMO
 
  • #756
  • #757
You know... as I said before, I don't really care if AVS or anyone else is giving money to his attorneys or where that money comes from -legally, that is. God knows his fees are going to be enormous. Receiving funds from licensing, interviews, etc. isn't illegal. I just don't understand the idea that they aren't *really* receiving money or profiting from these things because it's being sent directly to (or spent on) the attorney. :waitasec:

I agree with you. I think there was a deal struck up between AVDS and the Dutch TV before the interview. The reporter would not pay anyone, he would receive his pay and accomodations and airlline tickets.
 
  • #758
Right, as stated before, JVDS was able to obtain her pin numbers for the ATM card. I think he tied her up with the bungie cord, slid off her shoes, probably removed her pants, and punched her in the face until she gave up her pin number then moved to the back of the chair and proceeded to choke her. He was planning on killing her but when he couldn't choke her successively, he took off his white shirt and smothered her. I think that's why we see some blood splatter on the shoes and the pants were taken off he hopes to scare her further. JVDS was hanging with this girl at the casino on one or more ocassions,I am pretty sure he knew she was gay. He was broke and desperate and SF was winning big. IMO

great thinking.... :woohoo::woohoo:
 
  • #759
I think that's just a case of the staff member seeing the body with the massive trauma to the nose area and the surrounding blood and either thinking that it was still bleeding, or constructing what she had seen into a description she could handle.

Right, but based on witness statement it sounds fishy. But I agree.
 
  • #760
The words from Joran are....impulsive...imediately..... sounds like an alibi in the works...
 
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