Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

[Beatrice]

Wow! How weird I really thought the same thing but didn't comment on it. I also felt in my gut it was not the first they met with the whole shaking hands thing.I really thought she passed him a chip. Okay, maybe i'm not crazy! Thanks.

It was said that they had met a couple of days before.
Entirely possible Stephany is paying him back a loan.

 

[hollyblue]

I was thinking he kept it very close because of what he had on there, and didn't expect to be apprehended.
I think a few people may be needing depends now, jmho.

Maybe he wouldn't be safe in Aruba at this point. ??

 

[Beatrice]

Be interestiing if "the man" was found on the hard drive anywhere. Unfortunately, I believe JVS may had many computers since 2005 and the access to many-- in many different places.

Yep, he should have ditched that computer in the ocean somewhere during his flight, but I'm sure glad he didn't...it will tell volumes, including a gimpse of JVS himself. JMO

I cannot wait for the computer forensics!
It will be a treasure trove of info!!!!

 

[Peliman]

Thanks for moving the videos forward again! I'm going to say, IMO, no exchange during handshake. I'm referencing the first video, overhead footage, beginning right after she smooths her hair. @ about 1:24.

When I freeze at several points, he does open his right palm after the handshake - However, the chip could still be concealed in his lower palm. Can't detect a full open palm, too unclear.

However, second/s before her hand meets his, as she begins reaching her right hand out to him, her palm is open (nearly palm down, not cupped) on freeze. Nothing there.

I'll be curious forever LOL. In watching the videos and has been pointed out. Joran and the green striped shirt person approach the table at the same time from different directions. The Green striped shirt guy sits next to the dealer and does at least exchange a greeting with VDS, then Stephany approaches.

I've tried counting Jorans chips before and after the handshake but he disturbs the chips right after he opens his palm. So the long shot is I cant prove it. Yes she would have had to palm a chip in order to give it to him. I offer this explanation.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qQX-jayixQ[/ame]

 

[selena]

TY for the info and links FLNY. I've started a "green shirt" file and any info re: EG and ECC will be going in it.

Hi, first time poster, long time reader here. Really admire the tenacity of principle and shrewd observations surrounding the cases ( NH and SF).

Thought I would add that I have been following the Poker boards about the LAPT and there is some speculation that Joran was doing a " chip trick" where you shuffle the first chip over the rest, while Stephany has him beat with another maneuver...when I locate the thread and quote ( with a visual of a more skillful trick) I will add it to the proper thread.

The boards also have conversations from people who have played VDS online and met him in person, so, a little insider info there on his demeanor and his propensity toward grandiose and narcissistic tendencies.

Nice to meet you all, Selena

 

[FLNY]

Fantastic job of locating this video, Marikesh.....

It shows me several things clearly.

1) She does NOT walk with a club foot.....both feet seem to be normal.
2) The guy in the green stripped shirt is watching as she comes to the
table. I just wonder what he's thinking......
3) She seems to slip him a chip when she extends her hand as tho to greet
him. He very carefully takes it and puts it over his other chips.
4) She at first sits at table # 8 and then switches her chair to be next to him
at table #7......I wonder why....the chair switch.....could 7 be her lucky
number?
5) They both exit out of the Casino....(and this is the first time I am actually
seeing it from that angle....

I have put this into my favorite file.......for safe keeping.

Thank you for doing the search to find this for us.

Re: SF changing seats. My impression is that when she first approaches Joran at the table, she's not sure where to sit since there is a drink in front of the seat next to him (seat #7). She seems to stall around and then is seated at #8. I think Joran then tells her there is no one at #7. So, she moves to seat #7, while placing the drink at #8.

 

[nosysw]

Nice to meet you, too, Selena and WELCOME :woohoo:
Great first post, glad you're here...Keep it coming!

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Thank you for providing the links -- I was spellbound as I read the litany of incidents involving JVDS during his teen years. Any ONE of those incidents is enough to send this parent 'over the edge'. To say he was out of control is a huge understatement - he was a unholy terror. The 'smashing' of front windows in cars ALONE would have had his sorry tail in jail in some states so I am totally adrift on why there weren't any charges laid when he was a juvenile (oh I can hear the protests...daddy's influence etc) for property damage - there's no excuse for law turning a blind eye to his bad behavior.:twocents:

I hadn't read those before either....it does change my mind about a couple of things.

1. I now believe his parents did fail to bring him into line, I understand that he was way too much for them to handle in the home, but there are outside resources that should have been utilised to do something about this monster in the making....they should have known with all their education that this was baaaaaad, and only going to get worse, and acted, and kept acting.

2. He should have a record. He should have been charged with one of his many crimes before Natalee disappeared.

3. There is no reason why this didn't go to trial. They had PLENTY. He should have been prosecuted for the first one, and if he had Stefany would still be alive.

Big mistake. HUGE.

 

[FLNY]

I don't know why anyone has translated "salir con" definitively as "leave with." "Salir con" is commonly used, especially by young people, to mean "to go out with" as on a date. In my opinion, a lot of the confusion in this case was created early on by the media. Many of them appeared to rely on quick translations (via Google?) in order to get the scoop. In my opinion, Google's translation tool doesn't do a good job with Spanish and does an even worse job with Dutch.

I am here in the States, but I try to read (with my three+ years of Spanish) the online versions of Spanish language newspapers in Lima to get information as close to the original source as possible. There are also a couple of websites in English written by people in Lima who know both English and Spanish well. They do a good job of reporting on JVS and the murder of SF, but they don't report on a regular basis. When the news hits here, I am often surprised at what I hear or read because it doesn't match closely enough to what I have read from Lima.

Google translations are at times very peculiar and unreliable. Some media at the start seemed to rely heavily on them. Add to this the fact that a word in Spanish can often be translated into many different words in English depending on meaning and context. Machine translations provide just one word for each word in a sentence. Many of the inconsistencies in the news we have gotten in English do come from faulty translations and from the media releasing information far too quickly before verifying accuracy. This includes news from well-thought-of mainstream media sources.

By the way, I am a newcomer here although I have lurked for a while. I am impressed by the level of discussion and commitment at Websleuths.com. I hope you will welcome me warmly.

Welcome, Sleeper! This is a great website. I'm new here too and I'm addicted!!

We'd really appreciate your participation in helping with the poor 'robot' translations that have been causing us all a lot of grief!!

 

[FLNY]

And I am still not seeing him murdering her between 8:24am and 8:35am. MOO

I'm not convinced yet either....more confused than convinced....LOL!!

 

[marikesh]

I don't know why anyone has translated "salir con" definitively as "leave with." "Salir con" is commonly used, especially by young people, to mean "to go out with" as on a date. In my opinion, a lot of the confusion in this case was created early on by the media. Many of them appeared to rely on quick translations (via Google?) in order to get the scoop. In my opinion, Google's translation tool doesn't do a good job with Spanish and does an even worse job with Dutch.

I am here in the States, but I try to read (with my three+ years of Spanish) the online versions of Spanish language newspapers in Lima to get information as close to the original source as possible. There are also a couple of websites in English written by people in Lima who know both English and Spanish well. They do a good job of reporting on JVS and the murder of SF, but they don't report on a regular basis. When the news hits here, I am often surprised at what I hear or read because it doesn't match closely enough to what I have read from Lima.

Google translations are at times very peculiar and unreliable. Some media at the start seemed to rely heavily on them. Add to this the fact that a word in Spanish can often be translated into many different words in English depending on meaning and context. Machine translations provide just one word for each word in a sentence. Many of the inconsistencies in the news we have gotten in English do come from faulty translations and from the media releasing information far too quickly before verifying accuracy. This includes news from well-thought-of mainstream media sources.

By the way, I am a newcomer here although I have lurked for a while. I am impressed by the level of discussion and commitment at Websleuths.com. I hope you will welcome me warmly.

Thank you, and welcome.

 

[FLNY]

I'm starting to get the sense that JVS had a reputation in Aruba and the local girls knew it and would not go out with him because of his temper. Maybe others--just not coming forward--had experienced his violence and/or disrespect.

That's most likely why I read that his specialty was preying on young female tourists.

I didn't follow the NH case. But from reading the previous posting listing all the anger issues that JVDS had displayed over the years, it had to have been general knowledge on that island. So, it seems that he should have been the obvious person to have been suspected in NH's disappearance. Now I can more fully understand why you're all so vehement that her case was totally mishandled by the ALE.

 

[FLNY]

I'll be curious forever LOL. In watching the videos and has been pointed out. Joran and the green striped shirt person approach the table at the same time from different directions. The Green striped shirt guy sits next to the dealer and does at least exchange a greeting with VDS, then Stephany approaches.

I've tried counting Jorans chips before and after the handshake but he disturbs the chips right after he opens his palm. So the long shot is I cant prove it. Yes she would have had to palm a chip in order to give it to him. I offer this explanation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qQX-jayixQ

Thanks! I really enjoyed that!!

 

[annalia]

Thanks for moving the videos forward again! I'm going to say, IMO, no exchange during handshake. I'm referencing the first video, overhead footage, beginning right after she smooths her hair. @ about 1:24.

When I freeze at several points, he does open his right palm after the handshake - However, the chip could still be concealed in his lower palm. Can't detect a full open palm, too unclear.

However, second/s before her hand meets his, as she begins reaching her right hand out to him, her palm is open (nearly palm down, not cupped) on freeze. Nothing there.

I watched it full screen and it doesn't appear to me that she handed him anything. It looks like as soon as he saw her he extended his hand as if to say hello. He puts his hands back by his chips but it doesn't look like he put a chip down. Just my observations.

 

[FLNY]

Hi, first time poster, long time reader here. Really admire the tenacity of principle and shrewd observations surrounding the cases ( NH and SF).

Thought I would add that I have been following the Poker boards about the LAPT and there is some speculation that Joran was doing a " chip trick" where you shuffle the first chip over the rest, while Stephany has him beat with another maneuver...when I locate the thread and quote ( with a visual of a more skillful trick) I will add it to the proper thread.

The boards also have conversations from people who have played VDS online and met him in person, so, a little insider info there on his demeanor and his propensity toward grandiose and narcissistic tendencies.

Nice to meet you all, Selena

Welcome, Selena! I'd be very interested to see what you've discovered!

 

[marikesh]

Maybe he wouldn't be safe in Aruba at this point. ??

From what I understand, that seems to be true. I would think Nl as well, and his own mom said he was more or less run out of Thailand---that other parents of students complained about his being there. Funny thing I am also really beginning to doubt his mother's words as of late as she has been contradictory alot lately. I do wonder whether that was another blame throw---Peter deVries ruined his life.

 

[marikesh]

I'm starting to get the sense that JVS had a reputation in Aruba and the local girls knew it and would not go out with him because of his temper. Maybe others--just not coming forward--had experienced his violence and/or disrespect.

If you take a look once more at the interview Cuomo/Melody Granadillo who was lovestruck with Joran at a young age---when Cuomo asks her something about having witnessed Joran's violence, she looks away with a sad expression, no eye contact and says 'no' in a very weak voice. I would have expected her to say more in defense if she was being honest, but that part of the convo was immediately dropped.

 

[BuzzieCat]

How could he have given these items to the cabbie ... the shirt pictured here is the same as he was wearing when caught......
OR Did joran just give him the 'shirt right off his back'......pardon me for leaving a little humor here......LOL

I'm a little confused on the Peru-to-Chile timeline, but I figure he probably stayed overnight somewhere and changed his shirt again, thus not wearing the red striped shirt anymore.

I would like to know what that leather-appearing book with "W" on it is.

Once again, you move right past the answer that fits the facts toward the answer you want. We need to some some evidence that Joran was set up. Your "theory" requires that someone would plan to murder another young woman to set Joran up, that someone would follow Joran to not only Peru, but to a hotel room with a security camera right outside his door, that someone would lie in wait for the moment when he would bring a woman back to that hotel, then wait again until Joran left her alone; that someone would somehow gain entrance to that room without breaking down the door. Then the unknown person would have to kill Stephany, attempt to clean up the blood, and Ninja his or her way out of the room without being seen by the camera, all the while not knowing where Joran is or when he was coming back...

(Snipped by me for space) This is me sort of putting words in another's mouth, but I've gotten the impression from past posts that the theory is (or at least was, maybe it has been revamped) that Stephany was working with the FBI (or someone) on the extortion sting but had second thoughts. She then went with Joran to his room and tipped him off. He left the hotel, leaving her still in room 309 alive. Then at some point some people came (don't know who) and killed Stephany, then framed Joran. So that the original plan was only to "entrap" Joran for extortion, not kill Stephany and frame Joran for murder, but that's the way it ended up.

Needless to say, I do not believe this scenario, but it would at least explain that Stephany's death was not what was originally intended, if indeed a conspiracy was planned. However, I find it hard to believe that a 21 YO Peruvian woman with little life experience, by her own father's account ('I did not teach her about the bad side of life' - not exact quote), and still living at home, was secretly working with an American espionage group of some kind to bring down Joran and then squealed to him and sat in his empty hotel room waiting to be murdered for her betrayal. Would also have to be some pretty rough American agents to decide to murder a young woman because she didn't cooperate with charging Joran for extortion. I'm sure all kinds of crazy truth-is-stranger-than-fiction stuff is going on in the world somewhere, but I just don't think this was it. IMO, it is what it looks like.

doobiedoo and flny, I really appreciate the well-thought out scenarios. I don't recall seeing a clear timeline, although with 14 threads I may well have missed it. Do we have a timeline of Joran's movements that clearly limits the times when a phantom killer would have had access to the crime scene alone?

I'll admit I have some questions about a young woman having her period being willing to take off her pants in front of a relative stranger or just willing to sit in her panties. Maybe I'm showing my age, here.

Me either! I just don't buy that Stephany started ripping off her clothes once she got to his room, intent on taking a bath, sleeping, hanging out, surfing the Web, with some guy she hardly knew, especially with her period. I guess it happens, but she doesn't look that relaxed in the footage of her going up to Joran's room.

I've seen posts on other web sites to the effect that Stephany was parked in a "quick parking" spot, indicating that she was not intending to stay with Joran for long. Do we have any confirmation of this other than the hotel receptionist telling Joran that he would have to move "his girl's" vehicle?

Re: SF changing seats. My impression is that when she first approaches Joran at the table, she's not sure where to sit since there is a drink in front of the seat next to him (seat #7). She seems to stall around and then is seated at #8. I think Joran then tells her there is no one at #7. So, she moves to seat #7, while placing the drink at #8.

I agree. She fingers the seat next to him briefly as if considering sitting there, unsure whether or not to do so.

It's very weird to me, the more I look at it, that she takes his drink and moves it over. Before that, she grabs another bottle that is sitting there and twists the cap on more tightly (anybody know what that bottle is?), then moves it over, then moves Joran's drink, then orders her own drink.

 

[suzihawk]

Hi Sanny. This is the shirt he wore when he left Tac for the final time. Collared and striped, red. Blood stain on it, later identified as SFR's blood. According to ROL, all belongings in photo given to cab driver.

http://www.radaronline.com/photos/image/71346/2010/06/exclusive-joran-van-der-sloot#image-load

This is footage of VDS when arrested in Chile. Pause at 11 seconds. I can't see the collar turned in. Are the stripes hidden by his hooded sweatshirt?
Do you have another photo or link where I can more clearly see him wearing the striped collared shirt at his arrest?

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/03/peru.murder.case/index.html

Why not the shirt off his back, the watch off his wrist? Young adult - grab another t-shirt from knapsack. Not as if riding around, on the lam, shirtless.

Catching up so apologies if this has been addressed...

Video of Jean C. touring JVS's cell. Starting at @ the 3:00 minute mark, it shows two red shirts hanging on the wall. Could either of these shirts be what we saw when arrested in Chile? We could only see the collar and bottoms of the shirts since his hoodie covered most of it. I don't see the striped shirt hanging there - the one he left the hotel in that ROL says he gave to the cabbies.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsufSJ2KSBw[/ame]

 

[selena]

Hi, first time poster, long time reader here. Really admire the tenacity of principle and shrewd observations surrounding the cases ( NH and SF).

Thought I would add that I have been following the Poker boards about the LAPT and there is some speculation that Joran was doing a " chip trick" where you shuffle the first chip over the rest, while Stephany has him beat with another maneuver...when I locate the thread and quote ( with a visual of a more skillful trick) I will add it to the proper thread.

The boards also have conversations from people who have played VDS online and met him in person, so, a little insider info there on his demeanor and his propensity toward grandiose and narcissistic tendencies.

Nice to meet you all, Selena

Here it is,...whew.

06-10-2010, 05:03 PM #854
$taybuffMM
grinder


http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...oker-player-serial-killer-798751/index57.html

Selena/ whole thread is interesting