Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

[georger]

Second snip-
"Flipping channels, and they were talking about case. They asked reporter why she would go to his room. Reporter said they were colluding and going back to split profits. Reporter didn't say colluding, he said playing as partners, but he was describing collusion. "

same poker thread, there is an additional comment but I think you get the picture.
S

Is it legal to do this 'playing partners'? Is that what they were
doing both at that table in the video? Wouldnt the person running
the game know this and report it later in the police investoigation .... ?

 

[selena]

Is it legal to do this 'playing partners'? Is that what they were
doing both at that table in the video? Wouldnt the person running
the game know this and report it later in the police investoigation .... ?

I don't know what they were doing...as much in the dark as anyone else on this. But as I said, in the poker world, if they were it was a no-no. and I am not offering this to denigrate anyone or cast aspersions, his is just what is being said in the poker rooms- if they were- could they have- trying to make sense out of all the interaction/non interaction between .
No conspiracy theories, just how some of the poker players themselves are seeing a part of it.

 

[selena]

As usual I stayed up way too late. I do want to add that the majority of the comments are complete outrage that she was killed and do not see JVDS as any kind of set up. They are upset and discussing the security at events, etc, her skill and misfortune to be at the same table as him. This is not an attempt to excuse him, just try to make sense out of what seems senseless to all of us.
Night all,
S

 

[glorybug]

I can say that in the pic, the brown bottle appears shiny- hard to tell if it is glass or hard plastic. My experience with hydrogen peroxide is that it was always sold in a matte (non-shiny) brown plastic bottle. Never glass. It only cost about 60 cents, so the container has to be cheap. Therefore, I can't tell what the bottle is in that picture. It may be sold in a different container overseas.

The link to the henna tin is EXACTLY what I was talking about. I know that it is/was made in 3 different containers- one is tin with a small talc-shaker top, one is a plastic container with a talc-shaker top, and one is tin with a completely removable lid and no talc-shaker. I believe the crime picture is of the one with no talc-shaker. I never understood the shaker lid anyway, since you have to take the whole top off to use it anyways. They all shared the lotus design that is on the tin in the crime pic.

I still think it's a weird choice for a man. Very messy. You have to heat water and mix it yourself instead of just clipping the top off a dye bottle. But, the colour of his hair is absolutely henna.

BBM; SNIPPED:

Here is the link to the brown bottle previously discussed, and speculated to be a bottle of peroxide, cleaning fluid, etc.:

http://www.cbsnews.com/2300-504083_162-10003848-5.html?tag=page;next

I posted this last night (below) because the tin triggered an old memory of a taller tin of Egyptian Powder Henna I recall being available many years (too many) ago:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Joran Van der Sloot Confesses to Murdering Stephany Flores Ramirez #14

 

[georger]

I don't know what they were doing...as much in the dark as anyone else on this. But as I said, in the poker world, if they were it was a no-no. and I am not offering this to denigrate anyone or cast aspersions, his is just what is being said in the poker rooms- if they were- could they have- trying to make sense out of all the interaction/non interaction between .
No conspiracy theories, just how some of the poker players themselves are seeing a part of it.

There is little doubt that Joran had a high opinion of himself, generally.
I could see him being hyper critical of anyone spoiling his 'win' he had
hoped for and expected. This could very easily have lead to an arguement
until he went into a rage uncontrolled. He keeps saying "Impulsive
act". Being superior to everyone else he thinks he is entitled ... anyone
else debating with him would have a very different view. Result: conflict
and he imposes his will. Addiction = Impulsion.

 

[glorybug]

The grade of hydrogen peroxide commonly sold over the counter for disinfectant is 3-10%. It can be put in your hair, and if you sit in the sun, it can give you highlights just like lemon juice. White/yellow highlights, not orange. Food grade HP (35%) is sold at health food stores in the US, but is mainly used as an experimental internal disinfectant. I worked at both a pharmacy and a health food store that sold HP, and I don't recall once it being bought to color hair. You'd have to reapply it over a series of days just to get highlights. It can be used to remove dyes or stains, however, which is why it works well to remove tooth stains, and is included in many tooth whiteners. It could be used on clothes, just like bleach, but that would be expensive. It works similar to bleach, in that it's an oxygenator- but you'll notice nobody uses bleach to color hair either.

I think people are confusing that with "peroxide", which is half of a 2-part chemical hair-coloring system which definitely will turn black or dark hair an ugly shade of orange if not done properly. It would be in a very small bottle, and would need an activator to do anything at all. It really is not related to HP in that context.

I would not suggest using HP to try to color your hair unless you just like being annoyed.

Since there is obviously a box of henna in the crime pics, and the POI has henna'd hair now, it would make more sense that he used the henna on his hair. If there was HP in the crime scene, my guess would be it was used to disinfect cuts or scratches. It would not remove or bleach large blood stains at all.

Interesting, I've read that it can lighten your hair overnight and if someone has naturally dark hair turn it an orange colour.

Any way you can check and see if that's true? I haven't been able to dig up much else on it yet.

TIA!

 

[nervous_nellie]

My thought is that he first tried bleaching his hair with peroxide, but it didn't turn blonde, it turned red. I know for a fact that's what happens on my medium brown hair (don't ask...I was young...only tried it on one small bit...LOL).

Then, since he couldn't stand the awful red color, he gave himself a very short buzz cut.

JMHO

im still catching up so if this has already been said, sia in regard to hair dyes, iirc most packaged colors have a 40volume peroxide in the "developer" ... i have medium dark brown hair and even if i use a dark dye the 40 volume peroxide lifts my natural hair color to that weird red color that we have seen on jvds... so either he tried to make it dark and it didnt work because the "lifting" process was too great and the "depositing" process to little, even if the dye was intended to be very dark. ( the only way to eliminate this problem is to cut the 40 volume peroxide to 20 volume by removing half and replacing it with water so it wont lift to that funky red color.) and like someone else mentioned that peroxide is a great "cleaner" for blood. my ex-husband is a paramedic and that is an old remedy that was used until all bloody things had to go off in the bio-hazard bags to be cleaned professionally... eta : forensically speaking i do not mean it can remove entirely, just to the human eye - it can be removed to the point of not being able to see it with the naked eye. i have no idea if it would still be visible with the aid of luminol.... im pretty sure that nothing bought in the supermarket can remove blood evidence entirely with no trace left behind when viewing with the use of luminol...but im surly not an expert...

 

[nervous_nellie]

The grade of hydrogen peroxide commonly sold over the counter for disinfectant is 3-10%. It can be put in your hair, and if you sit in the sun, it can give you highlights just like lemon juice. White/yellow highlights, not orange. Food grade HP (35%) is sold at health food stores in the US, but is mainly used as an experimental internal disinfectant. I worked at both a pharmacy and a health food store that sold HP, and I don't recall once it being bought to color hair. You'd have to reapply it over a series of days just to get highlights. It can be used to remove dyes or stains, however, which is why it works well to remove tooth stains, and is included in many tooth whiteners. It could be used on clothes, just like bleach, but that would be expensive. It works similar to bleach, in that it's an oxygenator- but you'll notice nobody uses bleach to color hair either.

I think people are confusing that with "peroxide", which is half of a 2-part chemical hair-coloring system which definitely will turn black or dark hair an ugly shade of orange if not done properly. It would be in a very small bottle, and would need an activator to do anything at all. It really is not related to HP in that context.

I would not suggest using HP to try to color your hair unless you just like being annoyed.

Since there is obviously a box of henna in the crime pics, and the POI has henna'd hair now, it would make more sense that he used the henna on his hair. If there was HP in the crime scene, my guess would be it was used to disinfect cuts or scratches. It would not remove or bleach large blood stains at all.

LOL! i should have skipped to the last page to check before i posted!!! sorry :/ nell

 

[glorybug]

No problem- it's a common misconception. Yes, PACKAGED hair dyes contain a peroxide content of 40% or more. It still needs an activator in order to bleach hair. Please note, it lightens hair, but doesn't actually 'bleach' it the way people think it does. It does not make it disappear or turn transparent. I have a cosmetolgoy license and have worked in a pharmacy and a health-food store. The peroxide mentioned in this thread was supposedly "HYDROGEN PEROXIDE", which is a completely different thing, and cannot lighten hair like commercially mixed hair colorings can- unless mixed with a developer as well. The hydrogen peroxide mentioned did not have a 'developer' with it. The hydrogen peroxide mentioned is almost exclusively used to disinfect- to kill bacteria on cuts and scratches.

Hydrogen peroxide, even at 40% or more WILL NOT remove blood stains to the naked eye. It will not. It is often used to disinfect items that have gotten blood on them because it kills bacteria related to blood. I can cut my finger right now, get blood on a towel, pour 50% or higher hydrogen peroxide on that blood, and it will not disappear. It will, however, kill any germs on the towel from the blood. It will dilute the blood a little. It will not bleach it out.

As a cosmetologist, who has seen people try to bleach their hair with color kits, as well as being a person who uses henna, I absolutely bet that Joran used henna on his hair. If there was hydrogen peroxide at the crime scene or in his possession, I will bet it was used to disinfect wounds/scratches, like to his hand, that he sustained while beating Stephany. NOT to get rid of blood stains in the room. According to the reports of how much blood there was, and even if it would work (which it does not), he'd need QUARTS of it, not one small brown bottle. I have no doubt he probably tried to buzz his hair off when he saw the ridiculous orange color. Henna is very hard to use correctly without looking like Bozo the clown. Not only that, but most of the henna people buy now is mixed with other plants and is not 'true' henna. If you see henna at the store, and they offer it in different 'shades', it is not true henna. You can google that. The box I saw in the crime scene pics is 'true' henna... the only color it can create is orange. I know the brand in the pic because it is the only one I have been able to find over the years that is still real henna- and I have enough experience with it that I know how to make it look natural on me- (proof here:http://cdn-sitelife.ehow.com/ver1.0...55f1a7-294c-4fdc-aa7e-9a9241bf8589.Medium.jpg)

I am going to go with henna on his hair, and hydrogen peroxide to disinfect his scratches/wounds. Unless he has a bad case of gingivitis, lol. Could be he just has really bad breath for all we know.

im still catching up so if this has already been said, sia in regard to hair dyes, iirc most packaged colors have a 40volume peroxide in the "developer" ... i have medium dark brown hair and even if i use a dark dye the 40 volume peroxide lifts my natural hair color to that weird red color that we have seen on jvds... so either he tried to make it dark and it didnt work because the "lifting" process was too great and the "depositing" process to little, even if the dye was intended to be very dark. ( the only way to eliminate this problem is to cut the 40 volume peroxide to 20 volume by removing half and replacing it with water so it wont lift to that funky red color.) and like someone else mentioned that peroxide is a great "cleaner" for blood. my ex-husband is a paramedic and that is an old remedy that was used until all bloody things had to go off in the bio-hazard bags to be cleaned professionally... eta : forensically speaking i do not mean it can remove entirely, just to the human eye - it can be removed to the point of not being able to see it with the naked eye. i have no idea if it would still be visible with the aid of luminol.... im pretty sure that nothing bought in the supermarket can remove blood evidence entirely with no trace left behind when viewing with the use of luminol...but im surly not an expert...

 

[nervous_nellie]

No problem- it's a common misconception. Yes, PACKAGED hair dyes contain a peroxide content of 40% or more. It still needs an activator in order to bleach hair. Please note, it lightens hair, but doesn't actually 'bleach' it the way people think it does. It does not make it disappear or turn transparent. I have a cosmetolgoy license and have worked in a pharmacy and a health-food store. The peroxide mentioned in this thread was supposedly "HYDROGEN PEROXIDE", which is a completely different thing, and cannot lighten hair like commercially mixed hair colorings can- unless mixed with a developer as well. The hydrogen peroxide mentioned did not have a 'developer' with it. The hydrogen peroxide mentioned is almost exclusively used to disinfect- to kill bacteria on cuts and scratches.

Hydrogen peroxide, even at 40% or more WILL NOT remove blood stains to the naked eye. It will not. It is often used to disinfect items that have gotten blood on them because it kills bacteria related to blood. I can cut my finger right now, get blood on a towel, pour 50% or higher hydrogen peroxide on that blood, and it will not disappear. It will, however, kill any germs on the towel from the blood. It will dilute the blood a little. It will not bleach it out.

As a cosmetologist, who has seen people try to bleach their hair with color kits, as well as being a person who uses henna, I absolutely bet that Joran used henna on his hair. If there was hydrogen peroxide at the crime scene or in his possession, I will bet it was used to disinfect wounds/scratches, like to his hand, that he sustained while beating Stephany. NOT to get rid of blood stains in the room. According to the reports of how much blood there was, and even if it would work (which it does not), he'd need QUARTS of it, not one small brown bottle. I have no doubt he probably tried to buzz his hair off when he saw the ridiculous orange color. Henna is very hard to use correctly without looking like Bozo the clown. Not only that, but most of the henna people buy now is mixed with other plants and is not 'true' henna. If you see henna at the store, and they offer it in different 'shades', it is not true henna. You can google that. The box I saw in the crime scene pics is 'true' henna... the only color it can create is orange. I know the brand in the pic because it is the only one I have been able to find over the years that is still real henna- and I have enough experience with it that I know how to make it look natural on me- (proof here:http://cdn-sitelife.ehow.com/ver1.0...55f1a7-294c-4fdc-aa7e-9a9241bf8589.Medium.jpg)

I am going to go with henna on his hair, and hydrogen peroxide to disinfect his scratches/wounds. Unless he has a bad case of gingivitis, lol. Could be he just has really bad breath for all we know.

thanks for all the info - i guess i was only commenting on how he may have turned his hair that strange color - not to what the brown bottle contains and whether that is what he used either on his head or to clean up...lol... i think that if he was attempting to use something to clean up a murder scene he would have needed more than whatever was in that not very big brown bottle...jmho tho....also i guess to clarify i didnt mean to suggest that one could use any part of packaged hair color to clean up a murder scene... please excuse my muddled train of thought as im hopped up on flu meds and codeine cough syrup!!

eta: good idea about the cuts and/or scratches... do you suppose these cuts/scratches needing antiseptic could have been a result of him fighting with sf? and if so i gotta say thats a pretty good presence of mind to purchase antiseptic for his superficial wounds just after committing a murder and to ALSO purchase some henna... i have no experience with henna, but wasnt it mentioned that the henna process is time consuming? hmmm.... this guy just gets stranger by the day (to me anyway) :/

 

[LadyL]

'Bum' throwing....

SANDER GOTTENBOS - WITNESS STATEMENT - 06/16/05
On your question if I was with Joran in the carnivals season when there was an incident, I will explain to you the following: Yes I was with him on that day. On that day there was a parade in Oranjestad. We stood on the bridge at the Wilhelmina Park. That moment a druggie came to us. Joran had given him . The druggie had thrown it on the ground and started annoying us. Joran had called the police force that stood near. The police force had removed the druggie. After a while the druggie returned and started annoying us. He had grabbed Satish at its hand and wanted with him fight. At that moment Joran grabbed him and threw him off the bridge into the water.

POLICE STATEMENT....NOT ANONYMOUS.

wow, thank you

do you have a link?

 

[suzihawk]

Just getting around to reading in full some of the links from yesterday. Thanks to whoever posted the latest Lillian Glass article on AVS's body language in her recent interview on Dutch TV.

Commenting on AVS's embellished story of the note JVS left when he left for Peru, she posed an interesting question:

"The fact that he wrote it instead of communicating it to her verbally shows what a strained relationship they must have had. Also since her interview was done for Dutch TV and since she said she trusts them so much, why didn’t she produce that note that Joran wrote in order to show everyone exactly what he wrote?"

I had also wondered how the contents of the note grew and evolved from a simple, "I've gone to Peru. Don't worry." (paraphrased) into the embellished version of, “ Mommy I love you but, I don’t wanna go to the Netherlands. I am invited to gamble in Peru and I can make money there. I wanna stay there far away as no body knows me there. I wanna think I what I wanna do with my life?”

A very insightful article from Dr. Glass into the mind of AVS.

http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/

 

[nervous_nellie]

just wanted to thank whom ever posted this link earlier somewhere in one of these threads and just in case anyone missed it the first time, this is an awesome site! thanx (there is a film about international prisons here and tons of other interesting topics)

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/

 

[GetSmart]

Peliman, this is a blog from someone who was at the tournament in Peru, almost fits Joran's lifestyle of late- traveling, loves poker, same age.
You might like this. His first blog entry is eye opening.
http://thelipofund.blogspot.com/

Snipped from entry
I don't even remember where I was at. 2005, late May, meaning school is out for the summer, except I didn't really get a summer that year, since I went to a high school that robbed my soul and any free time, in exchange for a physics class and a free trip to Busch Gardens. Who would've thought at that point I'd be where I am today, sitting in a Cusco hostel writing a blog entry about how unrealistic any of our long term expectations are.

So the age would be almost the same of Joran..... and the lifestyle and the tunnel vision.

I am not a professional behavior specialist that's for sure ... but I am a parent. It seems in this world of fast food, Reality TV, Blogs and Web Cams that last sentence says ALOT doesn't it ... how unrealistic any of our long term expectations are.

There really is an entire generation out there that is displaced. Now with the economy as it is and it seems half of the USA is on unemployment,and these are people that have worked in their lifetime and know how to work.

The outlook for this generation is rather bleak. So they like the escape of fast money ect...This generation of kids have had a lot handed to them .. good and bad. I wanted my son to enjoy his "young days" because it was something he could never get back... just ask any one going thru a midlife crises LOL..

However when he turned of age he became responsible for his actions and he knew it. .. I am getting off track ..sorry.. but my point was these kids are all about themselves plain and simple and it was a path they didn't have to stray to far to find ...another snip
Somehow in the 11 hours in the 17 hours I was in New Orleans, I managed to spend like $850. Only $40 of this was in a strip club, so the rest of the money literally went towards alcohol.
This is a lifestyle.... Joran has plenty of company as far as that goes ....but thank God the majority doesn't act on impulses like Joran did. You can be down on your luck.. loose everything and everyone that matters to you, but you don't have to become a violent murderer........................

I feel bad for these kids

I know there are good well balanced kids out there I know a few..

 

[marikesh]

Thanks. However, if this account is true, then Joran actually seems like something of a hero here. He is pictured as defending himself and his friend, who was physically attacked by this guy. Not saying I believe it at all, but the statement does not portray Joran as a mad, future serial killer with anger management issues. Also, the statement doesn't seem to indicate that the guy was killed by this- on the contrary, one could easily assume that the bridge wasn't that high, and the bum was unharmed by the water.

Most 'bums' are harmless and I really don't like to call people down on luck names like that. Many people are one or two bad decisions away from living on the streets.
There wasn't enough info given about the situation as to why Joran needed to throw him off the bridge. Perhaps Joran and his friend heckled him and got him aggravated, and perhaps all he did was ask for a buck or two from notably rich kids and he was sassed back and then got in their faces. These people have hearts and feelings, and when one does them a good turn they never forget.
Throwing him off the bridge doesn't make him a serial killer, but it certainly proves he's quite the bully. I guess people there take the law in their own hands quite easily, while cops sit and munch their crispy cornflakes.

 

[marikesh]

Thank you all for some great links.:woohoo:

 

[CBTampa]

Most 'bums' are harmless and I really don't like to call people down on luck names like that. Many people are one or two bad decisions away from living on the streets.
There wasn't enough info given about the situation as to why Joran needed to throw him off the bridge. Perhaps Joran and his friend heckled him and got him aggravated, and perhaps all he did was ask for a buck or two from notably rich kids and he was sassed back and then got in their faces. These people have hearts and feelings, and when one does them a good turn they never forget.
Throwing him off the bridge doesn't make him a serial killer, but it certainly proves he's quite the bully. I guess people there take the law in their own hands quite easily, while cops sit and munch their crispy cornflakes.

I agree with you, but it does show his lack of anger management. IMO

 

[selena]

Hi GetSmart!

When I was 18 the only card games I knew were Rummy and Pinochle- no bets! Of course I didn't grow up on the Isle of Los Vegas, and that's the difference for Joran. I do read sites where it is suggested college aged students are a large part of the poker community, they are the baby boomers of the online generation and prefer lifestyles where Farmville and Facebook is part of their dailies.

Joran didn't strike me as someone wanting to put in a long day for a little pay, and the cafe wasn't a big moneymaker unless there was a side perk that went along with it, he supposedly made 20,000 Euro's annually. that wouldn't be enough to feed a gambling addiction if you are on the losing side.
Instant gratification carries a high premium and the "quickness" of the lifestyle makes one wonder how anyone learns from mistakes when rushing off to the next scheme, or develops patience when one thing takes longer than anticipated to make a "mark on the world".

Just musing...

 

[selena]

GetSmart,
I wanted my son to enjoy his "young days" because it was something he could never get back... just ask any one going thru a midlife crises LOL..

Oh yes, please direct me to that thread...lol.

My daughter turns 26 next month, her husband will be 28, my niece just had her b/d. 26.
all college educated and all underemployed. None of them are contemplating touring Europe or casinos.

They know they have to work just as hard at getting a job as they did to get that education they are trying to pay off.

Thinking they will HAVE$ IT ALL, instantly, hadn't come into their conversations, with me, anyway.

Huge reality disconnect. Do we blame the entertainment industry for this? DisneyWorld?
Nintendo? I know Disneyland is to blame for me believing in Tinkerbelle, but there was a Peter Pan there,too.

Some young people just refuse to grow up. Island of Lost Boys.

 

[marikesh]

I agree with you, but it does show his lack of anger management. IMO

Yes indeed it does.