Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #20

[marikesh]

GetSmart,
I wanted my son to enjoy his "young days" because it was something he could never get back... just ask any one going thru a midlife crises LOL..

Oh yes, please direct me to that thread...lol.

My daughter turns 26 next month, her husband will be 28, my niece just had her b/d. 26.
all college educated and all underemployed. None of them are contemplating touring Europe or casinos.

They know they have to work just as hard at getting a job as they did to get that education they are trying to pay off.

Thinking they will HAVE$ IT ALL, instantly, hadn't come into their conversations, with me, anyway.

Huge reality disconnect. Do we blame the entertainment industry for this? DisneyWorld?
Nintendo? I know Disneyland is to blame for me believing in Tinkerbelle, but there was a Peter Pan there,too.

Some young people just refuse to grow up. Island of Lost Boys.

BBM
You've reminded me now of the Peter Pan personality, lol.

 

[marikesh]

Interesting, I've read that it can lighten your hair overnight and if someone has naturally dark hair turn it an orange colour.

Any way you can check and see if that's true? I haven't been able to dig up much else on it yet.

TIA!

We get 70% proof in Canada as far as I know. Years ago (teenage years) a friend of mine used it on her dark brown hair and she turned to a cross between orange and blonde. It wasn't pretty and she had to get dark dye to cover it.
IMO, Joran's orange seemed somewhat professional. I really doubt he did it for Holland though.

 

[GetSmart]

OH my selena you are so right !! I was a heck of ONO player ... Those were the days ...

Speaking of where Joran was raised is so on dot ... Those of us born in USA really are sheltered.

I remember reading a post awhile back and some comments in regards to Jorans note to "Mommy" some thinking how strange for him to say that. I have been married to 2 (two) European men and have Cuban and Puerto Rican friends...they all use that endearing phrase. I found found nothing odd with that..

selena :My daughter turns 26 next month, her husband will be 28, my niece just had her b/d. 26.
all college educated and all underemployed. None of them are contemplating touring Europe or casinos.

Thats what I mean .. my son is a marine mechanic just got out of school last year or so .. can't get a job in that field that fits him .. ie not alot of of "Marine" jobs open for beginners right now ... so he is a cook at a Marina ... get my drift he said mom I gotta start somewhere .. so this is where it is .. I was grateful he did that cause I think it shows he is willing to try and he is thinking ...

Point is he is not on the Gambling Circuit and he has not given up ...just trying to keep afloat.


I always was looking for the "men in my life> to make me happy ..Did not happen .. No Ward Cleavers out there and I sure wasn't a June. .. I took awhile for me learn that one and I am grateful I did. Just lucky enough my son son came along when I was 28 and he didn't have to live through a lot of my self inflicted BS... I'm sorry off track AGAIN .. and I wonder where he got that ADD !!

 

[selena]

Most 'bums' are harmless and I really don't like to call people down on luck names like that. Many people are one or two bad decisions away from living on the streets.
There wasn't enough info given about the situation as to why Joran needed to throw him off the bridge. Perhaps Joran and his friend heckled him and got him aggravated, and perhaps all he did was ask for a buck or two from notably rich kids and he was sassed back and then got in their faces. These people have hearts and feelings, and when one does them a good turn they never forget.
Throwing him off the bridge doesn't make him a serial killer, but it certainly proves he's quite the bully. I guess people there take the law in their own hands quite easily, while cops sit and munch their crispy cornflakes.

OH my selena you are so right !! I was a heck of ONO player ... Those were the days ...

Speaking of where Joran was raised is so on dot ... Those of us born in USA really are sheltered.

I remember reading a post awhile back and some comments in regards to Jorans note to "Mommy" some thinking how strange for him to say that. I have been married to 2 (two) European men and have Cuban and Puerto Rican friends...they all use that endearing phrase. I found found nothing odd with that..

selena :My daughter turns 26 next month, her husband will be 28, my niece just had her b/d. 26.
all college educated and all underemployed. None of them are contemplating touring Europe or casinos.

Thats what I mean .. my son is a marine mechanic just got out of school last year or so .. can't get a job in that field that fits him .. ie not alot of of "Marine" jobs open for beginners right now ... so he is a cook at a Marina ... get my drift he said mom I gotta start somewhere .. so this is where it is .. I was grateful he did that cause I think it shows he is willing to try and he is thinking ...

Point is he is not on the Gambling Circuit and he has not given up ...just trying to keep afloat.


I always was looking for the "men in my life> to make me happy ..Did not happen .. No Ward Cleavers out there and I sure wasn't a June. .. I took awhile for me learn that one and I am grateful I did. Just lucky enough my son son came along when I was 28 and he didn't have to live through a lot of my self inflicted BS... I'm sorry off track AGAIN .. and I wonder where he got that ADD !!

I started out at McDonald's, every job teaches you something valuable,even if that lesson is never to work or eat at a Mcdonald's again.

What opportunities are there in Aruba? Croupier, cocktail waitress, hotel management, sun tan lotion factory, cab driver. There are very few careers that aren't related to the tourism and the government jobs seem to be sewn up by relatives and insiders.

So one would need an education tailored to those industries or start looking outside of Aruba to avoid the small town monopolies and cronyism, imo.

Gambling, however is a world wide occupation and one that can easily translate to the screen ( online ), but you do need money to fuel that beast.

Joran either had no idea how to make money independently of gambling or was not very successful at it. If this is the case his only recourse is to find people to give him money willingly. When that fails and his losses outweigh his gains he is in trouble. That and the need to keep up appearances as the high roller his ego depends upon.

I'm not a psychologist I just play one on the internet.

Either the expectations are pie in the sky ( I will win $930 million in that tournament because I am the best player ever!!! and schmooze over to the next big game ) or he was acting out subconsciously due to the anniversary date of NH and maybe on another level inviting some of the same elements - girl, hotel, bad thing happened- to prove himself in one area where he couldn't in another ( poker playing).

I see Stephany as a counterpart to what he wanted to be. Soccer player, still in school, lots of friends, popular politically connected family- but she was a great poker player and he wasn't. And a woman. Women make problems for him, in his mind, by not behaving the way he wants them to ( submitting ) or by being better than him in some regard....
In time we will have half a dozen reasons why he is considered "disordered" but the MOMMY is telling.
S

 

[selena]

You all have a wonderful day. It's peanut butter-jelly time

 

[GetSmart]

I'm not a psychologist I just play one on the internet.
I was thinking the same thing when I posted LOL...
But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...


I see Stephany as a counterpart to what he wanted to be. Soccer player, still in school, lots of friends, popular politically connected family- but she was a great poker player and he wasn't. And a woman. Women make problems for him, in his mind, by not behaving the way he wants them to

That is what I really believe fueled her murder. I had said that in an earlier post.. I really believe He was wanting to drug her and she caught on and a fight ensued and he lost it cause in his mind he was thinking .. drug her get me some money haul butt she will not be able to find me .. but his feeble idea was foiled and all hell broke loose.. and he blamed STEPH....Again typical behavior .. for the ones who are so self absorbed.
Remember he was asking for money before he killed her.

 

[BuzzieCat]

Catching up so apologies if this has been addressed...

Video of Jean C. touring JVS's cell. Starting at @ the 3:00 minute mark, it shows two red shirts hanging on the wall. Could either of these shirts be what we saw when arrested in Chile? We could only see the collar and bottoms of the shirts since his hoodie covered most of it. I don't see the striped shirt hanging there - the one he left the hotel in that ROL says he gave to the cabbies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsufSJ2KSBw

I just now looked at that video. Talk about claustrophobia! I wonder if Joran has to spend much time in there, because that cell didn't seem to have any bars to look out, just 3 solid walls and a solid door.

The two balls are metal, probably have a worked design on them and have something inside that makes a 'jingling' or musical sound. They are supposed to be a relaxation device- you hold them in your hand and rotate them and the sound is supposed to be soothing.

I have a set just like the ones in that picture. His appear to have the yin-yang symbol on them, as mine do. Mine are made of cloisonne and could break if dropped on a hard surface. Not sure how useful they would be in beating someone up - they might break, but I don't know.

The grade of hydrogen peroxide commonly sold over the counter for disinfectant is 3-10%. It can be put in your hair, and if you sit in the sun, it can give you highlights just like lemon juice. White/yellow highlights, not orange. Food grade HP (35%) is sold at health food stores in the US, but is mainly used as an experimental internal disinfectant. I worked at both a pharmacy and a health food store that sold HP, and I don't recall once it being bought to color hair. You'd have to reapply it over a series of days just to get highlights. It can be used to remove dyes or stains, however, which is why it works well to remove tooth stains, and is included in many tooth whiteners. It could be used on clothes, just like bleach, but that would be expensive. It works similar to bleach, in that it's an oxygenator- but you'll notice nobody uses bleach to color hair either.

(Snipped for space) Thanks for this info. Perhaps Joran would have thought that hydrogen peroxide would help him clean up stains, even though it really doesn't work for that. I'm just not sure if he would have thought of using it to clean his cuts - he doesn't necessarily seem like a guy who would be worried about germs and infections. Not sure. I wonder if he already had it with him or if he bought it when he bought the coffee.

I hope this is okay to post. I have seen confusion as to whether or not PVDS was ever a judge. I found this website. If legit, it indicates that PVDS was in fact a judge at one point.

http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html

"...Mr. van der Sloot worked ten years in social legal aid in the Netherlands, four years in the Aruban Government, eight years in the public prosecution and three years as a judge."

BBM

 

[Cottages]

Thanks. However, if this account is true, then Joran actually seems like something of a hero here. He is pictured as defending himself and his friend, who was physically attacked by this guy. Not saying I believe it at all, but the statement does not portray Joran as a mad, future serial killer with anger management issues.

Hero? What Joran did is called assault and battery. It is clear that the "druggie" was not an ACTUAL threat. A person may only use force NECESSARY to prevent an assault or battery on themselves or in defense of others based on ALL the circumstances.

There were at least 3 guys here (Joran plus two friends), against one "annoying" guy that touched Joran's friend's HAND and indicated he wanted to fight. The "druggie," and his actions were sad and pathetic...even stupid, perhaps, but not threatening in any way. As described by the facts, this "annoying druggie" was as harmless as a "threatening" child or an elderly person, i.e. was not an ACTUAL threat to these boys. Would you also see Joran as a hero if he threw a child or an elderly person off a bridge because the child or elderly person was STUPIDLY wanting to "fight?"

 

[selena]

I hope this is okay to post. I have seen confusion as to whether or not PVDS was ever a judge. I found this website. If legit, it indicates that PVDS was in fact a judge at one point.
all I was able to find five years ago was that he was a judge in training, that he failed his latest exam and a posting by a friend that he would never be a judge ( it was an unauthorized bio of sorts ) and I believe the younger Carlo was one of his studenst when he taught ( NL or Aruba, I do not remember).

I do recall that he could not hear cases, or had a limited authority to hear cases, that they were over sought by a ""judge and I never found him on a NL listing of judges in the Antilles or NL.

If he passed his exam since 2005 that would explain why he was referenced as a judge but to my knowledge I didn't see any documents stating he was a judge in full capacity.

thanks for the link
S

 

[fran]

Just getting around to reading in full some of the links from yesterday. Thanks to whoever posted the latest Lillian Glass article on AVS's body language in her recent interview on Dutch TV.

Commenting on AVS's embellished story of the note JVS left when he left for Peru, she posed an interesting question:

"The fact that he wrote it instead of communicating it to her verbally shows what a strained relationship they must have had. Also since her interview was done for Dutch TV and since she said she trusts them so much, why didn’t she produce that note that Joran wrote in order to show everyone exactly what he wrote?"

I had also wondered how the contents of the note grew and evolved from a simple, "I've gone to Peru. Don't worry." (paraphrased) into the embellished version of, “ Mommy I love you but, I don’t wanna go to the Netherlands. I am invited to gamble in Peru and I can make money there. I wanna stay there far away as no body knows me there. I wanna think I what I wanna do with my life?”

A very insightful article from Dr. Glass into the mind of AVS.

http://drlillianglass.com/body-language-blog/

Joran must have gotten some of his personality from his mom.......seriously.

Every time I've seen her mention the leaving for Peru note, it gets longer. :croc:

That is exactly what Joran did when repeating talking to the media about his night with Natalee. He told one entire story and then repeated it, another 4 or 5 times and kept 'tweeking' it each time according to the criticism from LE and what was out on the internet......REALLY, HE DID! Until he finally got it, what he thought was just right, and made that notable TWO HOUR non cut appearance on Greta. :sick:

Boy! Did he have her fooled. :banghead:But it was all BS! :waitasec:

I guess we should just hope they keep talkin', digging deeper. :loser:

JMHO
fran

PS...Oh, and I agree with Ms Glass! fran

PPS....Oh, 'mommy I love you.' I'm sorry, but that just doesn't fit! He hates women! That would include her. Wonder why?

 

[marikesh]

I hope this is okay to post. I have seen confusion as to whether or not PVDS was ever a judge. I found this website. If legit, it indicates that PVDS was in fact a judge at one point.
all I was able to find five years ago was that he was a judge in training, that he failed his latest exam and a posting by a friend that he would never be a judge ( it was an unauthorized bio of sorts ) and I believe the younger Carlo was one of his studenst when he taught ( NL or Aruba, I do not remember).

I do recall that he could not hear cases, or had a limited authority to hear cases, that they were over sought by a ""judge and I never found him on a NL listing of judges in the Antilles or NL.

If he passed his exam since 2005 that would explain why he was referenced as a judge but to my knowledge I didn't see any documents stating he was a judge in full capacity.

thanks for the link
S

Paulus to my knowledge had not passed his test and couldn't expect to retry. As a judge in training he was also considered a replacement judge, but last time I saw articles on that, he never presided on any cases. In a very early 2005 interview with Pauw and Witteman in Nl he called himself a judge.

 

[fran]

I hope this is okay to post. I have seen confusion as to whether or not PVDS was ever a judge. I found this website. If legit, it indicates that PVDS was in fact a judge at one point.
all I was able to find five years ago was that he was a judge in training, that he failed his latest exam and a posting by a friend that he would never be a judge ( it was an unauthorized bio of sorts ) and I believe the younger Carlo was one of his studenst when he taught ( NL or Aruba, I do not remember).

I do recall that he could not hear cases, or had a limited authority to hear cases, that they were over sought by a ""judge and I never found him on a NL listing of judges in the Antilles or NL.

If he passed his exam since 2005 that would explain why he was referenced as a judge but to my knowledge I didn't see any documents stating he was a judge in full capacity.

thanks for the link
S

You're right, he NEVER was a judge. He was a 'judge in training.'

I think his family and friends may have called him 'judge,' as a pet type name. The American media initially called him Judge, but then they found out he wasn't really a judge. I believe NG kept calling him that though.

Fact is he FAILED the test and was already actually told he would need to find a new job, BEFORE NH went missing.

JMHO
fran

PS....the one thing the 'judge in training' position did buy him on the island was CONNECTIONS!

 

[Niner]

Fantastic job of locating this video, Marikesh.....

It shows me several things clearly.

1) She does NOT walk with a club foot.....both feet seem to be normal.
2) The guy in the green stripped shirt is watching as she comes to the
table. I just wonder what he's thinking......
3) She seems to slip him a chip when she extends her hand as tho to greet
him. He very carefully takes it and puts it over his other chips.
4) She at first sits at table # 8 and then switches her chair to be next to him
at table #7......I wonder why....the chair switch.....could 7 be her lucky
number?
5) They both exit out of the Casino....(and this is the first time I am actually
seeing it from that angle....

I have put this into my favorite file.......for safe keeping.

Thank you for doing the search to find this for us.

I believe she sits at #8, as there is a glass in #7, meaning someone has left the table but MIGHT be coming back... I believe Joran points or moves the chair towards her - and probably says, "this person left" and she moves to #7 spot... just MHO!

 

[Lola]

IIRC, he also taught or had taught at the university. They'd been there for quite some time. Anita says since Joran was 2 --

 

[Niner]

Re: SF changing seats. My impression is that when she first approaches Joran at the table, she's not sure where to sit since there is a drink in front of the seat next to him (seat #7). She seems to stall around and then is seated at #8. I think Joran then tells her there is no one at #7. So, she moves to seat #7, while placing the drink at #8.

Oops - I guess I should have read further - same idea I have too FLNY!!

 

[suzihawk]

all I was able to find five years ago was that he was a judge in training, that he failed his latest exam and a posting by a friend that he would never be a judge ( it was an unauthorized bio of sorts ) and I believe the younger Carlo was one of his studenst when he taught ( NL or Aruba, I do not remember).

I do recall that he could not hear cases, or had a limited authority to hear cases, that they were over sought by a ""judge and I never found him on a NL listing of judges in the Antilles or NL.

If he passed his exam since 2005 that would explain why he was referenced as a judge but to my knowledge I didn't see any documents stating he was a judge in full capacity.

thanks for the link
S

Whether PVDS was ever a judge or not has been batted back and forth for five years. What's important to me is that many of his cronies (including those in official capacities) repeatedly referred to him outright as a judge. Even AVS in her latest interview claimed he was a judge.

It's clear that his profession of lawyer and his many friendships and relationships with those directly involved in the investigation were instrumental in preventing justice from being served with regards to Natalee's 'disappearance' and insured his son was not held accountable. IMO

 

[newone]

Most 'bums' are harmless and I really don't like to call people down on luck names like that. Many people are one or two bad decisions away from living on the streets.
There wasn't enough info given about the situation as to why Joran needed to throw him off the bridge. Perhaps Joran and his friend heckled him and got him aggravated, and perhaps all he did was ask for a buck or two from notably rich kids and he was sassed back and then got in their faces. These people have hearts and feelings, and when one does them a good turn they never forget.
Throwing him off the bridge doesn't make him a serial killer, but it certainly proves he's quite the bully. I guess people there take the law in their own hands quite easily, while cops sit and munch their crispy cornflakes.

:angel:

I am still unamused that JVDS was not charged with assault at that time

 

[BuzzieCat]

Whether PVDS was ever a judge or not has been batted back and forth for five years. What's important to me is that many of his cronies (including those in official capacities) repeatedly referred to him outright as a judge. Even AVS in her latest interview claimed he was a judge.

It's clear that his profession of lawyer and his many friendships and relationships with those directly involved in the investigation were instrumental in preventing justice from being served with regards to Natalee's 'disappearance' and insured his son was not held accountable. IMO

http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html

I posted this link in my previous post but it doesn't seem to have been noticed.

In it, it has a bio for the lawyers at PVDS' law firm and his bio claims that he was a judge for 3 years. If that web site is legit, they are either lying about his credentials or he was considered a judge for a short time. Maybe it was a lie of omission, not mentioning that he was considered "in training" and didn't pass. :waitasec:

 

[Niner]

Niner - No and No
We are still missing a lot of important and unimportant information.
But, I do believe the verdict can only go one way.
IMO

Sorry I didn't answer quickier - but I JUST finally caught up to that post!! LOL! Thanks for the answers Carrington!
If we know WHEN the argument was - we could probably asume the murder took place pretty quick after...

 

[Cottages]

http://www.carlolawoffice.com/attorneys/index.html

I posted this link in my previous post but it doesn't seem to have been noticed.

In it, it has a bio for the lawyers at PVDS' law firm and his bio claims that he was a judge for 3 years. If that web site is legit, they are either lying about his credentials or he was considered a judge for a short time. Maybe it was a lie of omission, not mentioning that he was considered "in training" and didn't pass. :waitasec:

I think the question might be: Was he ever a judge that presided over any cases. In the U.S., most judges are required to have some training before taking the bench, but they are called judges the minute they are appointed or elected. So, it might be that he could properly use the title, but after completing training (which was in the middle of the NH case IIRC), never sat to hear cases because of the NH incident/arrest.