Peru - Stephany Flores, 21, murdered in Lima hotel room, 30 May 2010 #21

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  • #281
To me it doesn't seem so puzzling. She was only 16 when NH disappeared, and no doubt coverage of the incident was sparse in Peru. I don't think most 16 year olds spend much time watching/reading crime news from other countries. Well, I certainly didn't anyway. Unless he told her he was some sort of poker superstar, I can't see her looking him up online either.

Really? Headlines from Aruba not appearing in neighboring countries or in Spanish language news? I think we saw coverage in Spanish language media when we were in PR, but maybe it's an exception. I also wouldn't be surprised if she used English search engines as well as Spanish language ones. But who knows?

Oh, 16 year olds don't have to look for crime/news stories at all, the stories normally just pop up on search engine sites. And this story has been in the news throughout these 5 years, not just back in 2005. But maybe it's true, maybe somehow Peru never had any wind of the case.

Very hard to believe it is five years. I guess he was only 17 then IIRC, right?
 
  • #282
Does anyone have handy the link to the video showing SF sitting in the hotel lobby before following JVDS up to his room? I've not seen that. Thanks.

And thanks to all for the welcome!

I don't know of a video that shows her sitting in the lobby, only the video where he gets his keys and she seems to stand from an off-camera sitting position (23/24 second frames). There's probably a better resolution video out there, but here's one where you can see her head coming from a low to high position (and turning, like the chair/sofa is sort of facing where the camera could be positioned:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaxfWR0g_8M&feature=related[/ame]
 
  • #283
One thing that puzzles me is how S couldn't have already known who Joran was, she seems to have had plenty of access to internet, she was a gambler too, it just seems surprising she wouldn't have come across his name. Just through normal use of internet, news stories come up, and on TV, how could she not have heard of him or the NH case? Or at least when she met him in the casino (a few days before her death) it seems like she might have checked out his name and known who he was, etc. I mean it seems like she would probably have put the word "casino" into an internet search box at some point since she was quite an avid gambler and seen things come up about the NH case, or just seen random news coverage come up of him at some point.

I'm sure that the case was reported somewhere, but it wasn't a major news item at all. I've always been curious about missing people and I think I knew in the back of my mind that Natalee had disappeared in Aruba but I wouldn't have remembered any details besides that she was a blond American girl that disappeared on a graduation trip (and I probably remember because I went on my graduation trip at that time). Besides, if you search "casino"... tons and tons and tons of items will come before any info on the NH case ever shows up (search engines show you relevant results that relate to the keyword first!).
A few comparisons have been made between the SF case and a very sad case that happened in Lima 9 years ago (I don't think that they have all that much in common). A 16-year-old girl was murdered by her brother's friend in her own home with a hammer. "El asesino del martillo" also gravely injured the maid (left her in a coma) and attacked the brother and another friend. He got a 20 year sentence and is in Lurigancho. Anyone ever hear about it?
 
  • #284
I really hope we eventually get to have a forum for both cases so we can keep all the docs easily at our fingertips, threads separated by topic, etc. :)
 
  • #285
I don't know of a video that shows her sitting in the lobby, only the video where he gets his keys and she seems to stand from an off-camera sitting position (23/24 second frames). There's probably a better resolution video out there, but here's one where you can see her head coming from a low to high position (and turning, like the chair/sofa is sort of facing where the camera could be positioned:

Thanks. I've seen this one, but it looks to me like she was standing behind him waiting just out of the camera, then follows him. I keep hearing tidbits about her sitting down (including video), but unless there is another camera view in the lobby, we won't see it as there is no place to sit shown by this camera.
 
  • #286
the main reasons I can think of are:

when the press describe him as the killer rather than the defendant or suspect or accused.

when the press repeatedly omit the word alleged when discussing the alleged confession released by the Peruvian police, repeatedly calling it "Joran Van der Sloot's confession", using terms like "in his own words" etc. The worst form of this I saw was on the Nancy Grace Show when they would replay over and over for weeks an actor reading their favorite phrases from the "confession", in an accent that sounded like a bad guy in a movie, and did not state or show anywhere on the screen that it was an actor reading the lines and not Joran Van Der Sloot himself! LOL

when the press claim not only that he committed the crime against Stephany but go even a step beyond and continually report that the reason is that he's a Psychopath (has Antisocial Personality), (forgetting the possibility of mental illness such as Schizophrenic episode, Manic episode, etc, or even blackout or delirium due to drugs, etc. By definition, the diagnosis of "Antisocial Personality/Psychopathy" can't be applied unless Schizophrenic episode and Manic episode and various other potential conditions were not present. And "Psychopath" implies a much more conscious act.) If he in fact is the one who killed Stephany.

when the press, rather than trying to get all the evidence and discuss all the evidence from every possible angle, only discuss select items of alleged evidence from a prosecution viewpoint. For example, we don't hear them raising any questions about "do the rest of the hours of videotape confirm that no one else entered the room?", "have independent authorities confirmed this", and many other questions. We don't hear any questions raised about "why did Stephany's father say the first day that fingernail evidence from under Stephany's nails would convict Joran Van Der Sloot, but then later we heard she would have to be exhumed to collect this evidence, then later after JVDS was actually in custody back in Peru we heard that the evidence was now at the lab and they were awaiting results.....) etc. First we heard "wrappers from date rape drugs were found in Stephany's car so JVDS drugged her", but no questions asked about why would the wrappers be in her car, why if he'd drugged her would he be letting her drive, etc. No questions raised about this or even the possibility that he could be the one who had been drugged for example. LOL No questions asked about "are there prints on the wrappers?" and so many other questions. The alleged evidence for the most part has been presented very selectively and only from a prosecution angle.

though JVDS with his weird confessions in the past has also made himself look guilty of various things (could be due to mental illness or drug addiction.)
And the circumstances and alleged evidence that have been released in this case so far do make him look guilty, and maybe he is.

Respectfully Quoted seagull

I have to agree with you. The way news is reported is wrong. When someone is guilty, it may not matter(but who can say, morally)but if this is the practice then how hurtful to those that are innocent?

Impartiality should always be the name of the game in reporting and reporting should always be just the facts. Sometimes the facts are only what we can know at the time, but as I have seen following some cases on WS-the media jumps at any "word" put forth so as to have a "bombshell"(no specific person is meant as I feel this way regarding all media)to sell their papers.

I do not like JVS-but that is a personal opinion. For my moral code, what even his supporters will admit is negative about Joran and what I have heard from him in his words and from his mouth(in interviews and video tape) is already too evil for me. :snooty:

I do not need the media to report to me what I want to hear. Just as on WS, the facts are the facts, we can and do all read them and we still can have exact opposite opinions/conclusions of those facts. If the media had to report the way TOS of WS has us post, there would be way less confusion.

I will say that I understand how some information is(especially in the case)lost in translation or up to individual interpretation no matter how hard we try to be impartial. But, I noticed that many of the videos and reports regarding the SF case, although in a foreign language(Spanish, Dutch)there was still a "AP" tag. My understanding is stories are bought from entities such as AP and Routiers(sp?)by major and local outlets for them to "rework" and broadcast. If you Google any news story, and follow every link for that specific day and read the stories you can begin to see there was a one source story and the different news agencies put their spin on it.

During the Bloom story, where the man said God led him to Nadia, the story was/is essentially the same except for how much "religious" detail was given in the story. If it was a Christian news outlet then more focus on how the man "fasted and prayed" and spoke to God and how God spoke to him.

I also dislike the money that is exchanged for interviews. That anyone involved in these cases should make any money is wrong to me. Well, true victims should have consideration that could include monetary help for obvious reasons. But no one should be getting rich. IMHO.

Boo to the media. Message boards, where everyone's voice can be heard and facts must be checked and agreed on by all-where errors are openly corrected and opinions laid bare: imo is the wave of the future for information exchange or "news."

:twocents:
 
  • #287
that sounds like a very tragic case, I'm sorry to hear that.
 
  • #288
Well said, Chiquita.

And for a suspect to be railroaded by the media or anyone else toward a guilty verdict certainly would not honor Natalee or Stephany's memory at all, or do them justice. The truth will be their justice. Everything should be looked at from all angles to arrive at the truth (hopefully).

That's a good point about the AP. You do see one tiny bit of alleged evidence come out through the AP and then every television news outlet spinning off from that. You know, those reporting agencies like the AP used to be known for their excellent journalism, but some of them were bought out in recent decades by some big corporations, I know some respected, older reporters quit because they were disgusted, thought the quality and impartiality were compromised.
 
  • #289
One thing that puzzles me is how S couldn't have already known who Joran was, she seems to have had plenty of access to internet, she was a gambler too, it just seems surprising she wouldn't have come across his name. Just through normal use of internet, news stories come up, and on TV, how could she not have heard of him or the NH case? Or at least when she met him in the casino (a few days before her death) it seems like she might have checked out his name and known who he was, etc. I mean it seems like she would probably have put the word "casino" into an internet search box at some point since she was quite an avid gambler and seen things come up about the NH case, or just seen random news coverage come up of him at some point.

I'm amazed at how many of my peers and general people I come in contact with that have never heard of Joran Vandersloot. So it certainly doesn't surprise me that Stephany of her family had no knowledge of him.
 
  • #290
One thing I'm amazed at in the television coverage is that every time Stephany's injuries are described, the media don't seem to be able to discuss her tragic injuries in themselves objectively, they have to couch every single description with "what Joran did to her", "how violently Joran did such and such" on and on and on. There's not even a pretense of objectivity! Objectivity used to be the most fundamental principal to journalists, to any reporter, even at the tiniest paper, much less prominent journalists, on major networks etc. Wish I spoke Spanish, the coverage may be more objective/straight journalism there.
 
  • #291
Does anyone have handy the link to the video showing SF sitting in the hotel lobby before following JVDS up to his room? I've not seen that. Thanks.

And thanks to all for the welcome!

Thanks. I've seen this one, but it looks to me like she was standing behind him waiting just out of the camera, then follows him. I keep hearing tidbits about her sitting down (including video), but unless there is another camera view in the lobby, we won't see it as there is no place to sit shown by this camera.

Asiabrasil, I've never seen a video of her sitting in the lobby. Perhaps this is the one you're referring to. You can see her off to the right in this video (see circle beginning about the 20 second) while JVS is getting the key. She's behind a panel but you can see the top of her head.


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92gFDZlRoBI&feature=player_embedded[/ame]#!
 
  • #292
I'm amazed at how many of my peers and general people I come in contact with that have never heard of Joran Vandersloot. So it certainly doesn't surprise me that Stephany of her family had no knowledge of him.

Well of course we don't know for sure what Stephany knew about him or if/when she found out about N's case. (At least not so far.) I know the father's statement was that he didn't know anything about JVDS or N's case until they researched JVDS after Stephany was found.
 
  • #293
I'm sure that the case was reported somewhere, but it wasn't a major news item at all. I've always been curious about missing people and I think I knew in the back of my mind that Natalee had disappeared in Aruba but I wouldn't have remembered any details besides that she was a blond American girl that disappeared on a graduation trip (and I probably remember because I went on my graduation trip at that time). Besides, if you search "casino"... tons and tons and tons of items will come before any info on the NH case ever shows up (search engines show you relevant results that relate to the keyword first!).
A few comparisons have been made between the SF case and a very sad case that happened in Lima 9 years ago (I don't think that they have all that much in common). A 16-year-old girl was murdered by her brother's friend in her own home with a hammer. "El asesino del martillo" also gravely injured the maid (left her in a coma) and attacked the brother and another friend. He got a 20 year sentence and is in Lurigancho. Anyone ever hear about it?

No honestly I like to read crime-mysteries but, hate the truly morbid that seems to with it tho,can't be helped. I was (@that time) just interested NH and have been many years, also the 2 that really drew me before NH were the time were OJ and then Scott Peterson's cases. Instantly bc atatached and coundn't shake the accidental, someone else did either!
Think Joran is sick but, lets arrogance, lies and his better than thou attitude will get him. He is no beter than the others in prison but, yet get sprecial meals and seem to have inmate bubby to play games, watch TV. May not be Joran's style but it looks like is living above his means on mamas money.
I wonder how this will all turn out?

BTW[thank you for the trabslations] and I'm going search for the El asesino del martillo case, sounds intersting. thank you and all who keep us updated of the translations language articles.
 
  • #294
  • #295
JVDS possilbe link to Thai missing girls......

I only hope that Beth Twitty has her chance to bring Joran to trial for extortion AFTER
he serves his sentence in Peru.

NG panel stated that he may never get to do that. OH.....this infuriates me totally.

He's a slippery dude who has been 'tefloned' ever since NH disappeared. He only got caught this time because he LOST HIS COOL.....became enraged with Stephany and
murdered her.

This time ........there is a body......and he will do time.

Is it possble to try Joran in Peru for Stephanie then get Peru to allow
him charged and tried in USA for extortion, then ship him back to Peru
to serve his both sentences in Peru! :furious: :waitasec:
 
  • #296
I had never seen the videos of Joran recruiting for the sex trade in Thailand. It beats me how anyone can look at the video record of this guy (the De Vries undercover video, this sex trade video) and know that there is also video and documentary evidence of the extortion and not conclude that he is a real criminal. There his lying self is, talking about how the girls would make big money for dancing when he was selling them into sex slavery. I have no idea if he has killed women other than Natalee and Stephany. It wouldn't surprise me. We hash over motives, but there is a really simple explanation for his murder of Stephany: he likes having power and control over women and he likes money.

No rational person would have killed anyone in his hotel room, with no
hope of getting away. Its almost suicide on his part.
 
  • #297
Well dang, how old was Joran in that video? 20.. 21.. 22? He sure has a lot of "game" for being so young. I can't imagine myself playing that sort of stuff in my early 20s, or even now!

That has struck me also. Takes a special sort. ? I must be naive.
 
  • #298
it seems to me that jvds wants to be "notorious" ... dont know whether that is due to a mental condition or if he just wants people to think he is big and bad and powerful... a powerful jet-setting wealthy winning gambler that is successful with the ladies... blah blah blah.... like a character out of a movie or history like james bond or al capone.... i worry that if he wriggles out of any of this it will have only served to give him some "street cred" in his own mind...
 
  • #299
it seems to me that jvds wants to be "notorious" ... dont know whether that is due to a mental condition or if he just wants people to think he is big and bad and powerful... a powerful jet-setting wealthy winning gambler that is successful with the ladies... blah blah blah.... like a character out of a movie or history like james bond or al capone.... i worry that if he wriggles out of any of this it will have only served to give him some "street cred" in his own mind...

One of the books he had with him (photographed in his cell now)
was the Life story of Al Capone. Photo attached. Bobarino first caught this and pointed it out. Who carries a book about the life of Al Capone
as a model for life's carreer ?
 

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  • #300
One of the books he had with him (photographed in his cell now)
was the Life story of Al Capone. Photo attached. Bobarino first caught this and pointed it out. Who carries a book about the life of Al Capone
as a model for life's carreer ?

i guess he hasnt read the ending yet....:doh:
 
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